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Peter Stahl
07-28-2007, 7:11 PM
I have 3 computers, A PC with Win 2000, A PC with Win XP Pro and a laptop with XP Home (I think). I have the printer connected to the Win 2000 PC and I tried to Network the Printer but the XP computers don't see it. Is there a way to have it on the Network without have the PC's on and being able to print from the Laptop. The laptop is the only wireless computer of the three.

thanks, Pete

Steven Triggs
07-28-2007, 7:23 PM
If you want to be able to use the printer without a dedicated computer being turned on (I think that is what you're going for?), you'll need a print server.

Here's one:
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?pfp=cat3&product_code=306547

Ken Garlock
07-28-2007, 7:48 PM
I second Steven's recommendation. :)

I have been using a Netgear print server with my Epson printer for going on 8 years. Our house is wired for ether net throughout, and the print server just sets on the network waiting for some one to send it a TCPIP packet.

Stop by your local compusa or Fryes and pick one up. :cool:

Jim Becker
07-28-2007, 7:54 PM
There sometimes is a little, umm...problem...with XP machines and Win3K machines playing nice on the network, even when you have everything set properly. I think you're getting bit by that. The print server idea that Ken and Steven mention is one good solution. The other would be to upgrade the Win2K machine to one of the XP versions.

Peter Stahl
07-28-2007, 10:06 PM
There sometimes is a little, umm...problem...with XP machines and Win3K machines playing nice on the network, even when you have everything set properly. I think you're getting bit by that. The print server idea that Ken and Steven mention is one good solution. The other would be to upgrade the Win2K machine to one of the XP versions.

Steve and Ken thanks for the reply, looks like a good cheap solution. Didn't know it would be that easy.

Jim, The 2000 PC was upgraded from Win 98 and is a little too slow for XP. The 2000 PC will/maybe get phased out this fall. Thanks for the reply. Looks like a print server is the way to go.

glenn bradley
07-28-2007, 10:09 PM
I still run a 2000 machine for the same reason and the print server will be your best solution for your mixed OS environment. All your devices should talk to the printer via IP if not to each other. Enjoy.

Jim O'Dell
07-28-2007, 10:53 PM
I agree with the print server piece. I actually have XP Home on LOML's office computer, with the printer attached to it. I'm on a Win2K unit, and it does print. But I had to get the computer guru at work to come set it up, and he had trouble. When I had 2 machines on Win98, I was able to set it up myself with little or no problem. Lou, computer guru, thought the issue was the XP Home, not XP Pro. Jim.

Peter Stahl
07-28-2007, 11:19 PM
Glenn and Jim,

thanks for the reply. I think I'm gonna try a print server.

Rich Engelhardt
07-29-2007, 6:51 AM
Hello,
Try this:
Right click on network neighborhood and select properties.
Right click on local area connection and select properties.
Under the general tab, select Internet protocol - TCP/IP - highlight it and select properties.
Click on advanced and select the WINS tab.

Under the NetBIOS setting, change from the default to:
Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP.
Hit Ok - Ok and Ok.

The problem of finding services on a small home Lan is the lack of a local DNS or WINS server that knows the NetBIOS name of services.

Windows for Workgroups 3.11, Win95, Win98 and to a lesser degree, Win2000, are based on core technology that uses broadcast protocols (NetBEUI / NetBIOS). XP, Pro, home of media edition, have gotten away from it to a large degree. Vista has done away with it ~ 90 or so %.

The four easiest ways to aid comminication in a mixed enviorment using TCP/IP:

- A WINS server. Not practical for a home LAN since you'd need to add a Win2K or 2K3 server.
- An LMHOSTS entry. Not practical simply beacuse it's confusing for a non-geek to do, and in a larger enviorment, it means going from machine to machine.
- Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP. Fairly easy for a non-geek, but, in a large enviroment it can (and will) increase traffic on the LAN by up to 60%.
- Add NetBEUI protocol. Seldom if ever a good idea. Usually only done as a last resort if there's a DOS and/or Windows 3.1(1) or NT 4.0 machine that has to comminicate and no other options available.
(I believe I have 2 or 3 DOS/Windows 3.11 machines that are still in use. They run special software packages that are tied to the hardware & software the customers are running and can't be replaced..well,,they can,, but at a cost of several hundred thousand dollars)

By default, XP is supposed to enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP unless otherwise specified - but - like most other MS "great ideas", it only works that way part of the time.

Even if you add a print server to a home LAN, "locking down" the NetBIOS setting is still a good idea.

Ken Garlock
07-29-2007, 1:12 PM
Hi Rich. AFAIK, I am all TCPIP. With the software provided by the print server, I assigned a name and IP address 192.168.1.8 to the print server. All the devices behind my stand alone firewall are 192.168.1.x. Then on each of my computers I went to windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts and defined the name given to the print server name and IP address. From there you go to the add printer page and define the printer. You are done. Oh yes, it does take a reboot to get the new etc\hosts entry active before you define the printer.

It has been a couple years since I did it, so I may have forgotten a step.:o

Ian Abraham
07-29-2007, 8:36 PM
Be aware that there can be issues with some printers and those print servers. They are usually fine if the printer is a decent one that supports PCL or Epson high level code. The really basic ones that rely mostly on the PCs CPU and having a bi-directional connection to the printer may not work. Also, forget the scanner etc functions.

There is no reason you cant network printer in a mixed windows environment, although there may be gremlins that make life difficult. Try using explorer to search for the name of the PC with the printer connected and shared. That will often find it even if you cant browse the network to it, then you can locate the shared printer and right click to connect. Also check if you are running a firewall, if thats configured as high security (often the default) it will block file and printer sharing.

Cheers

Ian

Steven Triggs
07-29-2007, 8:45 PM
Be aware that there can be issues with some printers and those print servers. They are usually fine if the printer is a decent one that supports PCL or Epson high level code. The really basic ones that rely mostly on the PCs CPU and having a bi-directional connection to the printer may not work.

That is true. An easy way to tell, is what is listed on the box for compatible operating systems. If it is only compatible with Windows, this implies that it is controlled partly by the computer, and it likely won't work on one of these print servers. If it is compatible with Mac and/or Linux, than it likely does all the work on it's own, and will work on a print server. This isn't a guaranteed method, but is a pretty good indicator.

Several people are giving advice on how he can get it to work despite his mixed OS network. If I understood his original post correctly, he wanted a way to be able to print to the printer even if all the other computers (other than the laptop) were turned off. The only way he is going to be able to access the printer without it being connected to a computer that is turned on is if he uses the print server method, or gets a printer with a built in NIC...

Peter Stahl
07-29-2007, 9:19 PM
Thanks for all the replies so far. Lots of good info. My printer is a HP PSC 2350. Not sure when I'll get a chance to go and get a server but I give the other stuff a try.

Ian Abraham
07-30-2007, 3:46 AM
You can probably print to one of those via a network print server, but you wont be able to scan or use the card readers. If you connect via a host PC then at least you can do those functions on the host PC, but usually not on the networked ones.

Cheers

Ian

Peter Stahl
07-30-2007, 6:03 AM
You can probably print to one of those via a network print server, but you wont be able to scan or use the card readers. If you connect via a host PC then at least you can do those functions on the host PC, but usually not on the networked ones.

Cheers

Ian
Ian, Thought you were a night owl until I saw where you were from. I'm liking the print server idea less and less as I hear the drawbacks. Thanks for the reply. Do you guys in New Zealand get the same stuff we get from manufactures? Don't think I'll ever get to visit there in this lifetime.

Rich Engelhardt
07-30-2007, 8:11 AM
Hello Ken,

Then on each of my computers I went to windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts

In the same directory (folder) there'a a file named LMHOSTS.SAM
Copy that file and drop the .sam extension so that it's simply LMHOSTS.
Microsoft networking is based on the old LanManager set of rules.
While Windows will read the hosts file, for anything Windows network related, you need to add an entry to the LMHOSTS file.
Also use the #PRE setting, but for home ignore the #DOM - the #PRE tells Windows to preload, and the #DOM tells Windows the domain.
Most home networks are workgroups and don't have a domain controller to authenticate to.

Also - to avoid having to reboot for testing - shell out to a command prompt (Start--> run --> cmd [enter])
and type:
net stop netlogon - to stop the netlogon service.
then type
net start netlogon - to restart the service
The netlogon service will read the hosts and LMHOSTS files and reload them.

There's also an issue of differing ethernet frame types between the various Win OS's.

You can access the network card properties and lock the frame type down on all of the PC's to Ethernet II.
802.2 and 802.3 were old Novell frame types, and Ethernet SNAP (IIRC was Dec).
Ethernet II is what Unix used - and TCP/IP is basically a Unix suite of protocols.

Re: Print server devices - they operate in promisuous mode - accepting any and all frame types.
Windows OTOH, while it searches for all 4 frame types, it locks in on the first one it finds.

That makes life interesting :D. It causes things like it works one day, but not another, but it's back to working again today,,,then tomorrow it quits working.

David DeCristoforo
07-30-2007, 6:45 PM
And....don't forget that you have to install the printer driver on each computer!

Peter Stahl
07-30-2007, 7:03 PM
Hello,
Try this:
Right click on network neighborhood and select properties.
Right click on local area connection and select properties.
Under the general tab, select Internet protocol - TCP/IP - highlight it and select properties.
Click on advanced and select the WINS tab.

Under the NetBIOS setting, change from the default to:
Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP.
Hit Ok - Ok and Ok.

The problem of finding services on a small home Lan is the lack of a local DNS or WINS server that knows the NetBIOS name of services.

Windows for Workgroups 3.11, Win95, Win98 and to a lesser degree, Win2000, are based on core technology that uses broadcast protocols (NetBEUI / NetBIOS). XP, Pro, home of media edition, have gotten away from it to a large degree. Vista has done away with it ~ 90 or so %.

The four easiest ways to aid comminication in a mixed enviorment using TCP/IP:

- A WINS server. Not practical for a home LAN since you'd need to add a Win2K or 2K3 server.
- An LMHOSTS entry. Not practical simply beacuse it's confusing for a non-geek to do, and in a larger enviorment, it means going from machine to machine.
- Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP. Fairly easy for a non-geek, but, in a large enviroment it can (and will) increase traffic on the LAN by up to 60%.
- Add NetBEUI protocol. Seldom if ever a good idea. Usually only done as a last resort if there's a DOS and/or Windows 3.1(1) or NT 4.0 machine that has to comminicate and no other options available.
(I believe I have 2 or 3 DOS/Windows 3.11 machines that are still in use. They run special software packages that are tied to the hardware & software the customers are running and can't be replaced..well,,they can,, but at a cost of several hundred thousand dollars)

By default, XP is supposed to enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP unless otherwise specified - but - like most other MS "great ideas", it only works that way part of the time.

Even if you add a print server to a home LAN, "locking down" the NetBIOS setting is still a good idea.

Rich,

I can't find a network neighborhood icon on the desktop or in the Control Panel. Does this have to be installed? This is on the Laptop with XP Home Edition.

Rich Engelhardt
07-31-2007, 12:01 AM
Pete,
Right click on Start and select properties.
Select "Classic" start menu.
The Network neighborhood should now be on your desktop

Rich Engelhardt
08-01-2007, 6:52 AM
Hello,
oops! Too late to edit.
I recalled too late that one of the computer's was XP home.
I don't believe XP home has a network neighborhood.
It might display as "home network".

I don't recall for sure since I don't wok on PC's loaded with XP Home edition - only the Pro version.

Peter Stahl
08-01-2007, 9:37 PM
Hello,
oops! Too late to edit.
I recalled too late that one of the computer's was XP home.
I don't believe XP home has a network neighborhood.
It might display as "home network".

I don't recall for sure since I don't wok on PC's loaded with XP Home edition - only the Pro version.

I tried everything but none of these PC's seem to play well together. My Laptop has the XP Home and it says My Network Places. Even the XP Pro didn't did have network neighborhood. I can share files some what but setting up the printer is a no go. I'll just save my printing for when I use the PC. Didn't think this would be that difficult. Thanks for you replies.