Kitchen and garage cabinets

[Jerry Evans]

I am ready to take on a job I have never done before but have read about you guys doing it as if it was childs play...
I need to buy the tools for this so your input will decide where I put my money....should I get a biscuit cutter,dowel,pocket hole,or I was even thinking about a corrugated fastener gun (anyone ever used one of these), to make the cabinet faces and the cabinet doors which will have four pieces of wood butt jointed together with a rabbet on the backside for an insert...thank you for listening to my rant

[Art Mann]

For face frames that don't require a lot of strength, it is mighty hard to beat the versatility of pocket screws. The Kreg jig is inexpensive and does a great job. For cabinet doors, I use a rail and stile router bit and reinforce the joints with dowels. The best dowel jig I have found is the Dowelmax. It is expensive, but is the only one of many I have used that consistently produces accurate results. I have never had a use for a biscuit cutter. I think there are other better ways to do the same job.

[frank shic]

skip the dowelmax and any method that requires prolonged glue clamping. get yourself a copy of udo schmidt's book on building kitchen cabinets or danny proulx's book, a pocket hole jig for the face frames as well as for attaching the face frames to the case, a porter-cable air compressor/stapler/nailer kit for initial fastening and some assembly or confirmat screws to bolt the cases together. make sure you have a VERY SQUARE crosscut sled or - better yet - a sliding table attached to your table saw. the kreg jig works ok but you may get uneven joints which is why i bought steve clardy's router driven pocket hole machine - joints are actually flush without having to clamp the daylights out of it! i'm not crazy about corrugated fasteners being visible on the back side of the doors. are you sure you want to rabbet the doors instead of dadoing them?

[Russell Tribby]

I use a rail and stile bit as well. Art, do you reinforce all of your door joints with dowels or just the ones that span a longer distance? I've never had or seen a joint fail using the rail and stile configuration because there is so much glue surface.
I'll bite....what is a router driven pocket hole machine? I've never seen one let alone heard of one. This is why I love this forum. I get exposed to all kinds of things/ideas/concepts/methods that I never would have thought of.

[Jim Becker]

Honestly, I've moved to pocket screws big-time for cabinetry construction. Fast, easy, strong (with glue) and minimal clamping. Butt joints, too. Great for face frames, too, if you build with that style as I do.

[frank shic]

russell, a router-driven pocket hole machine is basically a router that's mounted on a rocker cradle so that when you lift the router, it cuts in an arc like fashion and thus producing a pocket hole cut. the advantage of this approach is that the six degree angle does not cause as much shifting as the eleven degree angle that you get with the kreg jig. the kreg jig is still handy when you're on the go, but for my workshop purposes, i much prefer steve clardy's economical BYOR (bring your own router) solution. here's a picture of porter cable's version which routs the pocket hole and drills for the screw simultaneously - i would seriously invest in one of these if i ever went back to building face frames! for now, steve clardy's pocket hole machine (SC1000? speed-pocket? the UNKREG? gotta think of something catchy...) works well for me even though you have to cut the pocket and drill the hole in two steps.

[Russell Tribby]

Frank,
Thanks for the clarification. I've seen the pocket hole machine that you provided a picture of. It does look really handy but I would have to cut a ridiculous amount of pocket holes to justify something like that. What is the difference between the style of machine that you pictured and the Steve Clardy machine?

[frank shic]

the primary difference is that you have to drill the hole for the screw manually AFTER routing the pocket. on the porter cable 552, there's a router which routs the pocket as well as a laminate trimmer with a drill bit which bores the hole as well. did i mention that it's a lot CHEAPER?

:D

i'm still trying to think of a slick name: clardinator 2000, stevomatic, pocketmaker, EZ-PC...

[Al Willits]

The powered pocket hole machine kinda reminds me of David Marks universal mortise machine for over 2k, really neat and really exspensive, but if ya do a lot of them, probably worth it.

Being the newb here I still am wandering a bit on what works best for me, bisquits work the most reliable so far, and I like the Kreg system, but was having trouble with the pieces linning up when screwed together.
I did find if I run both edges up agaist a stop, and put a very thin spacer between the upper piece and the stop, the upper piece stays in place better, prob operator error, but whatever works I guess.

Al

[frank shic]

al, don't you know the first rule of woodworking? if at first you don't succeed, find something to blame! the tool was designed poorly, the wood warped in the last five seconds, you get the idea? in all seriousness, you are not alone when it comes to the phenomenon of pocket screw joint CREEP. it's extremely frustrating to spend all that time drilling pocket holes and then discovering that you'll have to add sanding time to flush up the joints. the only way i've found to counter the creep phenomenon is to clamp the joint with the LARGE face clamp as well as a bar clamp horizontally. the kreg pocket hole screws are easier to drive but the extra couple of seconds it takes to drive them in the routed pocket holes beats sanding...

[Larry Prince]

I am ready to take on a job I have never done before but have read about you guys doing it as if it was childs play...
I need to buy the tools for this so your input will decide where I put my money....should I get a biscuit cutter,dowel,pocket hole,or I was even thinking about a corrugated fastener gun (anyone ever used one of these), to make the cabinet faces and the cabinet doors which will have four pieces of wood butt jointed together with a rabbet on the backside for an insert...thank you for listening to my rant

Do yourself a favor and get the Sommerfeld Tongue & Groove bit set, and the DVD, and learn to use it. You'll also need a pocket hole jig, either Kreg or CMT will work fine. You'll need to watch the DVD a few times to understand the full benefits but it's time well spent. Your frames/boxes will go together much faster, with far less hassle, and will be accurate.

And dont butt join your door frames. Sure disaster. Get a rail & stile bit set for that.

Pocket hole machines are great for a production shop but not necessary in a small operation.

[Art Mann]

I use a rail and stile bit as well. Art, do you reinforce all of your door joints with dowels or just the ones that span a longer distance? I've never had or seen a joint fail using the rail and stile configuration because there is so much glue surface.

I used to just use glue, but started reinforcing the joint with a dowel after I had to reglue a couple of cabinet doors in my kitchen. I didn't build the cabinets and the glue job may have just been poor. It is easy to do with the Dowelmax.


skip the dowelmax and any method that requires prolonged glue clamping.
That may be good advice for face frames, but I won't do it with cabinet doors. I don't like the look of pocket holes, or any other exposed fasteners, even with the little plugs that are used to try to disguise them. Nails or brads look especially amateurish to me. I don't know any way to assemble cabinet doors where the fasteners don't show unless you glue and clamp them.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Hi, I use this technique for shop cabinets: I cut 3/4" ply parts to the size I need. Then I just butt join the edges and use glue and nail gun them temporarily together. Then I just drill holes with a countersink bit and use no. 7 screws. This makes for a very stong carcass once the back is nailed and glued on. I use pocket screws sometimes but I feel this method is stronger. You have more screw length in the wood than with a pocket screw. I try to keep the screw hole in the top or bottom of the cabinet so they won't show.

I find this method both fast and strong. Just cut, nail & glue, drill, and screw.
And for face frames I love using pocket screws.

[frank shic]

Art, i would only use pocket screws on face frames. i prefer gluing and brad nailing the doors for speed. another way to do the shaker-style doors is with the festool domino - if you happen to have one lying around! otherwise the dowelmax is probably the next cheapest option apart from any of the true mortise and tenon jigs out there.

[Al Willits]

Thanks Frank, I'll start blaming them worthless tools I bought asap...:D

Spacer has worked pretty well for me, and takes less time than try to put a death grip on the joint.

Must be the tools....

Al.....:D

[Steve Clardy]

the primary difference is that you have to drill the hole for the screw manually AFTER routing the pocket. on the porter cable 552, there's a router which routs the pocket as well as a laminate trimmer with a drill bit which bores the hole as well. did i mention that it's a lot CHEAPER?

:D

i'm still trying to think of a slick name: clardinator 2000, stevomatic, pocketmaker, EZ-PC...


Lol. Thanks for the catchy names Frank :D :D

I have named it.........J-S Pocket Cutter

Named after my friend and I.

[Ed Falis]

Art,

So, for doors, you do rail and stile bits + dowels? Do you drill for the latter first, as I expect, and put them where mortice and tenon would be?

- Ed

[Jeff Wright]

I've touched on some of the questions raised in this post at . . .

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=62552

Hope it is some help.

[Art Mann]

Art,

So, for doors, you do rail and stile bits + dowels? Do you drill for the latter first, as I expect, and put them where mortice and tenon would be?

- Ed

So far, I have only tried drilling the dowel holes after routing the profile. I suspect it will work either way.

[Ed Falis]

Thanks, Art.