Hand Saw Question

[Greg Crawford]

I know there are lots of hand tool questions posted, so I searched first, but didn't find the answer.

My mom has my dad's old hand saw, with the only markings she can find are the common warranted superior on the medalion (she's, let's say, digitally challenged, so no pics). I understand this medalion was used on all kinds of saws, so it's not enough to go on to id the saw. He bought the saw around 1963-65, and I'm wondering if an off-brand saw from that era would be of very good quality. Any opinions or suggestions of where to look for information on saws of that era?

Thanks,

Greg

[Andrew Williams]

Hard to make sense of it but my educated guess is that Disston made the saw as a second-line product...

http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/medallionpage.html

[Bob Smalser]

http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/ftj/winter97/w97_4.gif

Many Warranted Superior-labeled saws I've seen have been plate (untapered) saws measuring around .040", where an expensive #12 or #16 can be as thin as a .033-.028" taper at the cutting edge with a better polish. Taper ground saws require less set, which means thinner kerfs. The thin edge, taper grind and polish all serve to reduce the sawing forces required, and saws with edges much thinner than .040" require labor-intensive tensioning on the trip hammer and runs through finer polishing grits that lower grades of saws don't have to the same extent.

That means the saw requires a full set and will be a little harder to push than a tapered saw because of the blade thickness and attendant additional set resulting in a wider kerf. But the steel they were made from came out of the same pot as the steel for the #12's and #16's, and if you only saw occasionally, you'll won't notice much difference.

Because they are generally made of good steel and were tempered to be easily resharpened, you can add a little fleam (lower the cutting edge bevel) on these to make them saw easier at the expense of more frequent touchups with the file.

[Greg Crawford]

Thanks Bob. Do you think the steel in the early 60's was still high quality? I've read that the "modern" processes for saw blades are much less desirable.

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Depends on the saws/makers as to whether the steel is as good or better than in times past. Some makers use a softer steel today than in times past, which simply means they would need sharpening more often.

Biggest issues that Bob will point out would be taper grinding--that's the point of the nifty graphic.

The steel available today--whether it is selected by a particular maker or not--is actually better in its consistency than in 1900.

As for a particular saw brand in the 1960s...depends on the brand. In the US during that period, I would say the workmanship, steel and woodwork is not as good as it was pre--WWII. The English makers (and Sandvik), which while using funky handles, made good saws.

Take care, Mike

[Greg Crawford]

That's mainly what I was wondering Mike. My dad wasn't a woodworker, per se, but just had enough tools to do projects that came up. Consequently, he didn't buy high-end tools. I think I remember going with him to get that saw at the local hardware store (oops, just gave a big hint to my ancient age). I have no idea what brand it is, and from what I've seen, that medalion was used by many manufacturers for off brand saws. I also understand the taper grind, which is one reason I would like an older saw. I have my dad's Stanley Handyman and use it, and thought it would be great to get his saw and use it too, if it was worth the shipping.

Thanks,

Greg

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Yeah, I also remember going down to the corner store/gas station and getting white gas for the mower...Age happens.

The medallion issue. Disston et al made Warranted Superior medallions for many other makers. They also used them on some saw lines from companies they bought and kept alive to produce saws. The presence of such a medallion does not necessarily mean the saw is second rate (or worse).

Here's the thing. If the saw has some life left or has enough sentimental memories about it, get the saw. And and use it. You may find it meets your needs versus another's needs. If not, then worry about tracking down a vintage saw from eBay or someone like Walt Q (here at SMC and WoodNet).

Take care, Mike

[Glenn Madsen]

Having your dad's saw would be worth the shipping, if all it did was hang on a hook in your shop. Most of my tools are of better quality than my father ever used. Well, except for the golf clubs. I'm glad he's still around, and doing well, at 81.

[Bob Smalser]

Thanks Bob. Do you think the steel in the early 60's was still high quality? I've read that the "modern" processes for saw blades are much less desirable.

I think today's steels are certainly better if the maker wants them to be, and that includes tools made in the 1960's, providing the steel wasn't junked up with gummy alloys like vanadium to make it look pretty. What went by the way in the 1960's was anything labor intensive or with little cost-benefit payout to the manufacturer orienting on a do-it-yourself market, like tensioning and polishing.

By 1960 all the pros had largely switched to power tools except for a very few boatbuilders, and the major wooden boat revival so hand tool intensive didn't occur til the early 1970's. Then FWW, Highland Hardware and later Garrett Wade were stressing and selling hand tools for cabinetmaking by the late 70's - early '80's, as pros and hobbyists alike began to realize you can't do it all with power. These dynamics created the markets that allowed L/N and L/V to start and grow.

I have a cheapo 1960's Disston homeowner's model panel saw I can't even identify as to model that has better taper grind, polish and edgeholding than any D-23 I've ever seen...and the much-maligned, 10-dollar D-23 may be ugly, but is a very good mid-grade saw.