Do I Need A Router Table Miter Slot?

[Raymond Fries]

In looking at Incra and Jointech tops, I see that Jointech does not provide this slot in their phenolic tops. For those that have an Incra or other brand that has a slot:

Is this a very useful feature to have? Or, is it a nice to have for special needs.

Thanks for any help or feedback on this.

Raymond

[Jim Becker]

Not necessary, IMHO, and weakens the table top. (I had one in my first router table, but never used it) A sled along the fence can provide the same utility for "end machining" stock as a miter gage would afford.

[David Duke]

I built my own top and put the miter slot in it..............I have had it 5+ years and never used the slot.

[pat warner]

You can find out without insult.
See pix. (http://www.patwarner.com/images/mitergage.jpg)If the setup works for you (two 3/8" thick pieces of clamped MDF for a blade pathway); you'll know whether you want to cut one.
Routers (http://www.patwarner.com)
_________


In looking at Incra and Jointech tops, I see that Jointech does not provide this slot in their phenolic tops. For those that have an Incra or other brand that has a slot:

Is this a very useful feature to have? Or, is it a nice to have for special needs.

Thanks for any help or feedback on this.

Raymond

[Bob Feeser]

In looking at Incra and Jointech tops, I see that Jointech does not provide this slot in their phenolic tops. For those that have an Incra or other brand that has a slot:

Is this a very useful feature to have? Or, is it a nice to have for special needs.

Thanks for any help or feedback on this.

Raymond

Ray,
They say a picture says a thousand words. Try as I might, I have never figured out a way to rout the end of a board, and not get it to creep, resulting in a lousy end. So I figured out how to do it, something that requires a miter slot in your router table.
http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/5228/2635753640100733997S600x600Q85.jpg

You just have to make sure your miter slot is perfectly parallel with your fence. So it pays to square it up with your table. Rather than go find inch plus material for the top, required when removing material for a slot, I just glue up 2 3/4" panels.

[frank shic]

Bob, where did you get the aluminum extrusions?

[Cody Colston]

I put a miter slot in my NYW style router table top. After 3 years I see no signs of it weakening. I use mine all the time. In fact, I used it today to rout some stub tenons for a frame and panel.

A combo square works great for squaring the fence to the track and P120 grit sandpaper on the miter gauge face helps hold the stock in place. Works for me.

[Gary Curtis]

Frank,

The router top in Bob's photo is the Benchdog top made for tablesaw extension tables. If I'm not mistaken, I think the measurements of that aluminum top only mate with contractor-size tablesaws.

Gary Curtis

[Alex Elias]

I di put one on mine and I use it quite often. If I didn't have I wouldn't cry for it but if I made another I woul put it. As far as weaken the top I think that if the top is thick enough that shouldn't be a concern.
Here is a link to the table I made. Feel free to brouse the folders.
Regards,
Alex

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/alxe24@prodigy.net/album/576460762334109926/photo/294928803488334671/5

[Ron Blaise]

In looking at Incra and Jointech tops, I see that Jointech does not provide this slot in their phenolic tops. For those that have an Incra or other brand that has a slot:

Is this a very useful feature to have? Or, is it a nice to have for special needs.

Thanks for any help or feedback on this.

Raymond
And I use it. It's a cast iron table with an excellent miter slot and gage so why not use it. It sure comes in handy with sleds.

[Bob Feeser]

Bob, where did you get the aluminum extrusions?

Gary is right. It is a Bench Dog router table extension for table saws. He also hit the nail on the head in terms of which saw size it is made for. It is 27" exactly wide, same as my older Sears saw, that I had to build a base for, so it wouldn't do on my PM66 which is exactly 28" deep.
Bench Dog replaced my table extension with one that is all cast iron, for not that much more. It eliminates the seasonal changes with humidity that shrinks or expands the press board center, causing a very slight lip on the aluminum border.
Pertaining to the miter slots on the router tables that I made from scratch, the other 2 at the other end, I put miter slots in them as well. That is why I mentioned that I glued up a double 3/4" panel, so the groove for the miter slot would not weaken the top.
It is interesting to note that I used some cheaper miter slots that are not as true as the dimensions I get with the Bench Dog slot, which is adjustable with allen wrenchs studs along its entire length. That is key to getting accuracy, because with a sloppy miter slot, when the router bit hits the end of the wood, it forces it to move if it can, and with a sloppy miter slot, it does. The Bench Dog stays true. So spend a little extra to get a miter slot that is totally accurate to your miter gauge.

[Bob Feeser]

Not necessary, IMHO, and weakens the table top. (I had one in my first router table, but never used it) A sled along the fence can provide the same utility for "end machining" stock as a miter gage would afford.

Jim,
I was oogling the sleds for that purpose. They are substantially built, at least some of them. What I could not reconnoiter (tell me that isn't a 2 dollar word!:) ) the problem of accounting for the rise in height, on an above table sled, to allow for the thickness of the base on the sled, that would force you to raise the router bit farther out of the collet.
The following is a pic of Woodhavens coping sled, that illustrates the idea, although they do have a miter slot that is used on this one. But it illustrates the raise above the table principle, in this case 1/2"
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/418P9TY329L._AA280_.jpg
I'm getting real picky here but you also have to consider that with a sled, you are limited as to the width of the bit you are using. Does it clear the sled, or run into it. With the miter gauge clamp setup, there isn't any limitation, whereas the tool surfaces are far away from the cutting area, and the only surface is your workpiece, coming into contact with the bit. The bit travel range is thereby increased, because it can go anywhere from above the piece, to all the way down into the table; a consideration when making graduated passes. I can see that you would have that option if you had a miter on your sled, or added one, then you could simply setting the fence further back, thereby extending the workpiece into clear territory. Then you have to juggle the feather boards, riding along the edge, which would work, but would be a little bit of a juggling act; just one more angle that has to be pressed into, while the other angles are at play.


I did hear of someone who successfully used the sled also, because they had a router lift on theirs, or used a router that had such a deep range, that extended the height of the bit sufficiently without having to under extend the collet grasp. The fact that the collet was above table level didn't matter because the sled compensated for that. (And they say too many cooks spoil the soup)

Another consideration which tilted me toward the miter with hold downs: The adjustment for the bit registration, would be one setting for the sled, and another for table level passes. (Unless you were able to make all of the passes using the sled, something that is hard to do with long stock. But then again, you could clamp the sled into place, and if wide enough, would act like a risen table. That'll work:) ) Or you could make a secondary table that is exactly the thickness of the sled, attach it on top of the exising table, then you would have the same registration. Then you get into all kinds of cool creative thinking as to what you could do with the new risen table. Hmmm...

So at the time I went for the Delta Miter gauge, with the optional clamping system, to keep everything flat on the table. Pertaining to weakening the top, I agree because I think the miter slot takes something like a 1/2" to 5/8" out of the top. That gives you up to a whopping 1/8" inch of material left over:eek: . Therefore they were calling for special 1 1/8" press board, or something like that, which is a special order item, so I sandwiched 2 3/4" melamine, or ply, gluing them together.

My conclusion at that time was start dreaming of a big shaper, with bits that give you more flexibility in their range, stack on cutters giving you creative license to make new profiles on the whim, and a nice sled to go along with that. Imagine cutting large panels with a single pass. PM's 5hp unit would do nicely. Taking out a second mortgage anybody?

[Gary Curtis]

Bob,

I just took a WW class in which we used the Felder combination machines (Saw/Shaper-Jointer/Planer) to mill and fabricate a front door. The class was hosted by Felder and taught by Mark Duginske (of Bandsaw book-fame).

Mark told us on the shaper to keep cuts smaller than 1/4 inch. Just because you've got 5 or 7 hp driving the cutter doesn't mean you can shove whole trees through the apparatus.One reason is tear out. The other is control of the workpiece.

In reading over all the points brought up in this excellent :D thread, I grow envious of the advantages offered to those rich guys who can afford a Felder. They can use the sliding table to clamp their work and run it through the shaper. Much more accurate and stabil. And safe.

At the present moment I am installing a router top in my saw table edxtension. And I made the choice to forego a miter track, simply because my exentsion table top is made of partical board in a hardwood frame. And I want to make Cope & Stick cuts with the router, so I opted for a Coping Sled that is guided off the router fence instead of with a miter gauge.

I also want to make (for safety's sake) some of those sleds that Pat Warner advocates in order to do edge work on long boards. Those will have to be guided by a fence that runs along the edge of the router table. It seems no matter which approach a person chooses, there is a lot of wiggling, shaking and baking to contend with as we pursue accurate machining of wood.

Gary Curtis

[Jim Becker]

I'm getting real picky here but you also have to consider that with a sled, you are limited as to the width of the bit you are using.

Depends upon the design of your table and how you set up your sled. For an operation that requires a substantial cutter exposure, a sled design that elevates above the cutter for most of the contact with the fence would solve the issue. But most of these operations are for milling the ends of stock, such as cope and stick, so cutter exposure is minimal.

[mike roe]

I have the bench dog offset table and the mitre slot is actually like a mini TS rail - it isnt in the table; it actually forms the edge so it wont weaken the table. I used with a homemade cope sled to do 18 cabinet doors. not one problem..... at least with coping...

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I have a router table off the back of my slider. It's positioned with the router up close to the sliding table so that I can use the slider fence for routing Otherwise I'd have a miter slot. I use the slider and the router together rather a lot almost as much as I use the router with the fence alone.



I say put one in even if it means you have to double the thickness of your table to make it every bit as sturdy as it'd have been without it - which fact of the slot making for a weak spot Jim correctly pointed out.

[Mike Goetzke]

I use mine all the time. Especially with a feather board for the stick cut in rails/stiles for raised panel doors .

Mike

[Bob Feeser]

Depends upon the design of your table and how you set up your sled. For an operation that requires a substantial cutter exposure, a sled design that elevates above the cutter for most of the contact with the fence would solve the issue. But most of these operations are for milling the ends of stock, such as cope and stick, so cutter exposure is minimal.

Jim,
Thank you for your follow up. Hey I was thinking about that sled idea. The 1/2" platform, the one that can be used to lay on top of your table, the one for the non sled runs, so you wouldn't have to reset the bit.
My creative juices were flowing. Uh Oh. :rolleyes:

With your sled without the miter slot, you would be able to create a featherboard alignment range of motion that can not be touched by any other setup.
Without the miter strip running under the platform deck, you would be free to rout out a groove on the underside, running toward the fence, and running away from the fence, front to back so to speak, to put the feather board attaching bolts into. http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51P5H9GB96L._AA280_.jpg
You could rout the initial groove to closely match the featherboard attaching bolt shaft size, then rout out a larger size, recessed on the bottom that would match the head of the bolt, with just enough play so it would slip when setting it up, but act as a catch so you wouldn't even have to reach under the table when adjusting the feather board by using the locking knobs on the top.
The routed out groove on the underside is illustrated in the following photo, although this device is designed for a different purpose.
http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/31ZFQTMK8ZL._AA280_.jpg
By routing out that slot that is kind of long on this new add on top, you would be given a wide range of featherboard options. Plus you have the range of motion built into the featherboard for even more movement capabilities. Using a featherboard on wider boards, no problem. :D

You would have to balance the length of the rout with wood movement capabilites, so you could maintain a stable flat platform, while still being able to cover the more popular widths.

This is something that you wouldn't be able to do very easily if it had a miter strip running through it. So your set up gives you this flexiblity to create a wide range featherboard capacity; something important with routing. I always have trouble getting perfect routs when making long runs, without a featherboard, both on the fence and in the miter strip.
I find that with a miter slot determining where I can set the featherboard, I have a limitation as to how wide of a piece of material I can rout, and use a featherboard on. With the platform their would be far less width limitation. Not only do you have the range of the routed out bolt slot, you also have the range of the featherboard that is built in. So you could virtually featherboard the edge, not matter how wide the board may be.

I am often frustrated when trying to rout the edge of a wider board, and it doesn't fall within range of the distance of the miter slot, and the bit/fence location.
Uh Oh, maybe it's time to make up a new platform, and create a sled. I do have some quick release toggle clamps laying around. Hmmm....
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/410B0XB2BTL._AA280_.jpg
Oh well, back to the drawing board. :)

[glenn bradley]

What I could not reconnoiter (tell me that isn't a 2 dollar word!:) ) the problem of accounting for the rise in height, on an above table sled, to allow for the thickness of the base on the sled, that would force you to raise the router bit farther out of the collet.

Just info - My sled is made from 1/2" BB ply and I have no problem with height while keeping an inch or so of bit shaft in the collet.

P.s. Sorry for the semi thread-jack. Let me make amends. I added a miter slot. I find it useful now and again. My top is reinforced from below and I have a good inch of material below the dado for the miter slot. I would say go ahead and work for awhile. If you never miss one, you don't need it. If you want one later, they go in pretty easily.

[Bob Feeser]

Bob,

I just took a WW class in which we used the Felder combination machines (Saw/Shaper-Jointer/Planer) to mill and fabricate a front door. The class was hosted by Felder and taught by Mark Duginske (of Bandsaw book-fame).

Mark told us on the shaper to keep cuts smaller than 1/4 inch. Just because you've got 5 or 7 hp driving the cutter doesn't mean you can shove whole trees through the apparatus.One reason is tear out. The other is control of the workpiece.

In reading over all the points brought up in this excellent :D thread, I grow envious of the advantages offered to those rich guys who can afford a Felder. They can use the sliding table to clamp their work and run it through the shaper. Much more accurate and stabil. And safe.

At the present moment I am installing a router top in my saw table edxtension. And I made the choice to forego a miter track, simply because my exentsion table top is made of partical board in a hardwood frame. And I want to make Cope & Stick cuts with the router, so I opted for a Coping Sled that is guided off the router fence instead of with a miter gauge.

I also want to make (for safety's sake) some of those sleds that Pat Warner advocates in order to do edge work on long boards. Those will have to be guided by a fence that runs along the edge of the router table. It seems no matter which approach a person chooses, there is a lot of wiggling, shaking and baking to contend with as we pursue accurate machining of wood.

Gary Curtis

Gary,
Thank you for your reply. I do not have experience with a shaper, so your input is greatly appreciated. I can see that tear out and control of the workpiece would be an important consideration when removing that much material. I was thinking, although not sure, that since the spindle speed of the 5hp PM shaper has 2 settings; Spindle Speeds (RPM): 7000 & 10000 combining that with a 5 horse industrial motor (no slowing down) that you may be able to get away with a single pass. (Without having experienced one, this is just a guess, and making a second pass is always a good idea to finish off the piece.)

Just so I keep on the topic of this thread, the PM shaper comes with a miter slot built into the top.:)

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/71VWT6MR2ML._AA280_.gif

When I was dreaming of getting a shaper, I was thinking, now let me see the 5 horse PM model is $2799, and the full size exterior door set is another few hundred, I would have the capability of making full size exterior doors/enclosures. Mohagony exterior doors, especially in an enclosure with glass running down the side, go for enough to pay for the shaper in the first job.
http://www.hoffmeyersmill.on.ca/images/uwe2.JPG
Not my doors in the above shot. Plus I do not own a shaper that is capable of making full width exterior doors. Although I did buy a set of door cope and stick bits to put in a 3+hp router, that will make 1 3/4" exterior doors. Mortising optional :rolleyes:


The only thing that scares me away from exterior doors is the horror stories of the wood splitting. The sunlight exposure on one side, and none on the other, lays the groundwork for all kinds of problems. Many of the major door making companies, with web sites, have all sorts of disclaimers about not being responsible for door splits etc. (Or at least a lot of exit strategies built in when people do make a claim for a cracking door)


I also did have a raised panel kick back at me when routing a little too much off on a first pass, so I know what you mean.


Thanks again for the input, ok, back to miter slots.

[Nissim Avrahami]

I did not make miter slot but when I made the new router table, I left one plate of 7½" wide to be used as a sled if and when I'll need

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/nanikami/New%20router%20table/RT002.jpg


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/nanikami/New%20router%20table/RT003.jpg


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/nanikami/New%20router%20table/RT004.jpg


For other operations, I made this "roller slider"
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/nanikami/Box%20first/004.jpg

[Bob Feeser]

Depends upon the design of your table and how you set up your sled. For an operation that requires a substantial cutter exposure, a sled design that elevates above the cutter for most of the contact with the fence would solve the issue. But most of these operations are for milling the ends of stock, such as cope and stick, so cutter exposure is minimal.

I had another thought. Uh Oh again. :) In addition to the times when cope and stick bits already have a built in edge clearance to the sled, you also have the option of placing a thin sacrificial board underneath your workpiece, which also gets clamped down thanks to the sled toggle clamps, so you can run any kind of bit, and still clear the sled. That'll work. ( I guess you can tell I do not have any experience with sleds, otherwise I would have known that)

[Lary Grassmeier]

Alex,what do You use to cut Your dados?

[Raymond Fries]

Nice job. I have not seen one just like this before.
Good multi-use top.