New member with plane question

[John VanDivier]

Hello SMCers, I joined this board a few months ago, but have just been lurking and trying to learn from the wise woodworkers here. I'm an old guy (67) and just getting around to learning the skills of precise woodworking after a lifetime of mediocre results. I find myself drawn to the neander methods, but have never learned to use these hand tools.

Anyway here is my question. I am in the process of obtaining a few good user planes (I have a Stanley #4 and #5 now). I am looking for a good user low angle block plane with adjustable mouth and was wondering how much minor imperfections at the mouth is repairable. Since the mouth can be closed up is it ok to buy one that the mouth isn't perfect, then file the mouth? My thinking is this will be ok as long as not too much material is removed. By this I mean not more than .010 or .015. Is this acceptable? Thanks, John

[Bob Smalser]

Since the mouth can be closed up is it ok to buy one that the mouth isn't perfect, then file the mouth? My thinking is this will be ok as long as not too much material is removed. By this I mean not more than .010 or .015. Is this acceptable? Thanks, John

Do a search of threads I originated and you'll find an article on selecting and tuning block planes.

If the sole is too far out of flat, don't buy the plane. That's hard to check at a flea market, but a piece of glass and a piece of 100-grit paper works....rust is as good an indexing fluid a bluing. The low-angle planes are prone to cracking at the mouth, and stripped lever cap screws aren't uncommon, so check. Crumbling at the mouth reduces the iron's bed, and there are so many good old block planes available, there's no reason you couldn't find a Stanley Sweetheart #65 or 60 1/2 in good condition.

Don't overdo sole flattening. Every thousandths you take off the sole shortens the iron bed at its most critical point, the mouth. And the adjustment plate at the toe only goes so far back using the eccentric lever. It's entirely possible to produce a plane with a dead-flat sole that works worse than it did before you began, so when in doubt, take a little off at a time, mount the iron and check that the mouth isn't too wide.

[David Howden]

John, whatever you do make sure the iron is of good quality. A plane out of kilter if fitted with a sturdy blade and cap will produce results, but the other way round is the road to disappointment.

[John VanDivier]

Thanks for the reply Bob. I had read your plane rehab post previously but didn't see reference to the mouth widening issue. .but you did answer my question. If any plane I see needs any dressing to the mouth I will pass on it. John

[Bob Smalser]

Thanks for the reply Bob. I had read your plane rehab post previously but didn't see reference to the mouth widening issue. .but you did answer my question. If any plane I see needs any dressing to the mouth I will pass on it. John


You can also take a machinists' straight edge around with you, but they don't do as good a job as checking by lapping on glass and paper, even of you take two and use them as winding sticks. The flatter the sole initially, the better the plane will perform, because lapping reduces the iron's bed.

A couple things didn't go into the outline I posted that went into the magazine article:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/266331111.jpg

You can save paper by drawfiling them flat, providing you don't rock the file and reblue and check on paper occasionally to insure you aren't simple trading one set of hollows for another.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/265551709.jpg

Don't buy a plane with a weak lever cap. This 1960-vintage Sargent's bends sufficiently in use to never plane as sweet as the Stanley above it. And also lap the lever cap on your stones to insure it makes perfect contact with the iron, just like you'd do with a chipbreaker on a bench plane.

[Derek Cohen]

Don't overdo sole flattening. Every thousandths you take off the sole shortens the iron bed at its most critical point, the mouth. And the adjustment plate at the toe only goes so far back using the eccentric lever. It's entirely possible to produce a plane with a dead-flat sole that works worse than it did before you began, so when in doubt, take a little off at a time, mount the iron and check that the mouth isn't too wide.

John, Bob's words are wise and I agree completely.You have to watch out for weakening the sole and also causing flex. As long as you are taking off just a little, then all should be OK. Also, just remember that you only need to have the toe-mouth-heel coplanar, not to have a full, flat sole. So often little needs to be removed.

A Stanley #65 is a great plane (it is still my favourite and best performer), but you may do well to instead consider a #18, which is the Standard Angle model. With a sharp iron you should be able to plane end grain almost as well, certainly well enough for all purposes. Plus you would do better on face grain and have a more durable block plane.

With regard filing the mouth, I assume you mean filing the adjustable plate. Just retract the blade and you will be able to determine how much you can remove and still close up the mouth. The size of the mouth is more critical when using a low cutting angle on face grain, especially interlinked grain. For end grain the size of the mouth is irrelevant.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John VanDivier]

Thank you to all who replied. All of your advice is well taken and will get me on the right track I'm sure. Unfortunately, I am relegated to detailed examination of photos on the various auction sites, so I just have to take some chances. I live in an area with meager sources of hands on checking of planes. That's why I asked the question in the first place because I see lots of planes that obviously need lots of work and I just wondered how much is too much. John

[Glenn Madsen]

Buying funky old planes because you don't know any better is no fun. That's why there are dealers and resellers to go to, ones you can trust. You're seldom going to get a gloat worthy steal, but you'll usually get good iron, if you use recommended sources.

It's also why people peel off the cash for LN or LV or other fancier, newer plane styles. After spending $50 on something that sorta works, spending $130 on something that REALLY works doesn't seem so bad. And it would have been $50 less, if I hadn't bought the funky carpenter's Stanley piece first.

But that's why there's a market place.:)