Securing studs to concrete

[John Hain]

I'm wanting to know the best way to secure studs to concrete basement walls in order to drywall.

Currently, the builders left a layer of insulation glued to the wall. Obviously we want to finish the basement. I wanted to see if there was a better way of doing this other than loooonnnggg concrete screws.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

[Jason Roehl]

Powder-actuated fasteners are a possibility.

[Mike Jones NM]

Several options to do this.
The first as mentioned is with a Helti Gun.
Next would be with common cement nails or "cut" nails
Thrid would be with tap-con screws. If you opt for these I would use liquid nails on each screw.
ALso a consideration on what option you use is if you are talking going into cement block or poured cement walls?

[Joe Mioux]

If you don't have to attach the studs to the wall, don't.

Use pressure treated lumber on the floor and keep the studs an inch or so away from the walls.

Good air around those studs will minimize problems. such as moisture getting into the studs and you can probably build a straighter wall by framing the wall out with a footer and a header.

[John Bush]

I used the hammer activated Ramset power nailer- it used Remington 22cal. charges. It was inexpensive and worked well in relatively new concrete. It wasn't as effective in older (20+ years) concrete with 25% not driving thru. A better gun system would likely be better. I have used Tapcons as well and are good but take much more time. Good luck, John.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,

Use pressure treated lumber on the floor and keep the studs an inch or so away from the walls.

As Joe said, when wood and concrete meet - use treated. In many cases it's code. In any instance it's a good idea.

I'm just finishing up the basement where I had to frame in the walls.
I used pressure treated against the block, secured with Tapcon's every foot acroos the width.

On the top, I ran a 2x4 around the sill. The top framing is nailed into that top 2x4, and the treated 2x4 which is 4' down the wall.

I drywalled the top, then attached cleats around the bottom of those 4' sections.
On the bottoms, I made "modules" of frames with 2x2 framework and 3/8" drywall attached to the face.
The modules hang from the cleats and "free float" about 3/4" from the floor. I put some treated under the feet and used shims to level them.
I finished off the ledge with two pieces of pine - one a 1x2, and the other a 1x6 which are screwed down from the top. The screws are countersunk ever so slightly, and then filled in with drywall mud.

The whole idea here in doing it this way is if there's ever a water leak around the base, the modules can be removed without destroying the wall.

Here's a picture of one of the walls with the top almost done. You can see the treated 2x4 behind the framing.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Here's a picture of one of the back cleats going into place.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Here's a picture of the mating cleats being sized before the modules are built.

I'll take a couple of pictures tonight of the wall with the bottoms in place if you'd like and post them.

Overall, I'm very pleased with the way it turned out and how sturdy it is.
The walls had a slight belly, which I easily adjusted for by shimming the tops and bottoms, using the treated 2x4 as the center "witness"(?).

Except form one "oh drat!" in the corner, the whole wall is out of bubble by less than 1/4".

Since it's all "open", air is free to circulate also.

[Mick Zelaska]

If you use the Hilti gun or similar tool you'll have to install the studs with long side flat against the wall leaving a depth of only 1 1/2" for insulation and electric boxes. I would go with Joe's recommendation and build a regular stud wall with a treated plate. This would give you more flexibility to run electric, insulation, plumbing and hide any other pipes, etc., without having to box around them. When I build my shop, along with all the electric, I installed a utility sink pumped to a hung sewer and put all the pipes in the wall.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I have used h powder nailers of all sorts as well as expanding lags of various types - all with success. On block walls I prefer a toggle. less stress on the block.

I have not had the opportunity to try those screws that self drill and self tap.

[Dan Clark]

Old concrete is tough. I bought a mid-level powder nailer and it didn't work at all.

Although I don't like buying cheap tools, one of these inexpensive Harbor Freight rotohammers is a good alternative: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=113&pricetype=. I bought one to attach ledger boards to a concrete foundation wall. In a quick test, I got farther in about 10 seconds than I ever did with a powder nailer.

So, I'd suggest a rotohammer plus tapcons for the fastest and easiest installation.

Regards,

Dan.

[Grant Davis]

I used Tapcons on my last basement wall project and they worked really well.
http://www.confast.com/products/tapcon-concretescrew.aspx?gclid=CK6TisHFxY0CFRlmWAod-GbvLQ


I also second the using of the pressure treated sill plate as my walls were not close to being in line.

[Steve Milito]

I used a Ramset to attach a pressure treated sill to the floor. I used a Sill plate gasket between the concrete floor and the sill. The concrete floor had some pitch, and the ceiling was I-beam/concrete, so I had to attach a top plate between I-beams. Again I used the ramset, but with different fastners. It would be far easier if there were wooden joists for attachment. I then toe-nailed the studs. Therefore, it didn't matter if any of the fasteners didn't sink fully. I also built the wall 2" in front of the existing concrete walls for insulation. There was probably an easier way, but postitioning a pre-built frame wall between concrete and steel by myself didn't seem feasible.

[Alfred Clem]

I see you live in Georgia. Moisture and humidity will always be a problem there. Suggest you do NOT block air circulation space behind the wall you plan to put up. Where does the moisture you have there go now? Do you have drain tile or a weeping tile system in place around the base of your concrete walls in your basement? Is the wall covered ON THE OUTSIDE with coats of sealant and tar board fastened to your walls? Do you have some kind of vapor sealant on the inside bottom of your walls which diverts trapped moisture to your drain/weeping system? Are you planning to insulate between the studs with a plastic vapor barrier on the warm side? What have you planned to do to prevent the formation of mold? Have you planned all your electrical work so that you have access to your junction boxes? I suggest you get some professional advice. And good luck.

[dan moran]

i second the idea of stick building the wall between the floor and the ceiling.

concrete is never flat/straight/true (i dont care how "good" the guys that did it are) and youre asking for a wavy/curvy/unplumb wall if you just shoot studs flatwise to a foundation wall.

when you layout the wall, snap a reference line about 5" or so from the sill plate on top of the basement wall, measure along the length of the run, find the shortest distance between the sill plate and your reference line and adjust the reference from there to get your air gap.

plumb down from your adjusted line and snap a line on the floor to match it- check your gap and adjust as necessary- do this for as many walls as you want in your basement(except work off the floor now) checking for square corners(3,4,5), check your gaps, and when youve got everything laid out - cut all your plates (green down, white up) use construction adhesive and either cutnails or ramset e'ery few feet to secure your bottom plates, and just nail your tops to the joists-or use 14-7/16" (assuming 16" OC) cross blocks every 2' or so in the case of a wall being parallel to the joists.

now that youve got the plates laid out, lay out your studs and measure all of em- writing the number on the wall or the top plate ( i try to keep all the studs within 1/8" - 3/16" of the measurement but ive seen gaps of up to 5/16")..

cut and mark the crown on all your studs and put them where theyre supposed to go and then fire up the compressor and go to town. toenail to the bottom plate of all of em and come back with a scaffold (or not if youre tall) and toe up all the tops..

skin with drywall and youre all done..

simple.:D

[John Hain]

Thanks for all the replies.

Alfred, I just moved to Omaha, but the seasonal changes will still require worrying about humidity. I will used pressure treated lumber as suggested, I would have probably forgot about that.

My brother-in-law is a construction engineer, so I'll probably ask him to find a Hilti for me:)

Again, thanks.

[Dixon Peer]

A lot of responses to this one. The right way to do this is the pressure treated lumber "shoe" on the floor, a 2x plate at the ceiling, and stud it up at 16" on center. That way you'll have a nice straight wall (if you can get decent studs, an increasingly difficult thing to find) with an air space behind it. If you have the money and want the best, go for manufactured studs such as Timberstrand or similar. They'll be dead straight and stay that way.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,

Although I don't like buying cheap tools, one of these inexpensive Harbor Freight rotohammers is a good alternative:
A problem I found with the lower cost hammer drills is that the bits will slip. They hold ok for the first dozen or so holes, but then start to slip.
It's not bad if you only have a dozen or so holes to drill, but it get's a bit old after that.
Hitachi and DeWalt both offer a keyed chuck model for under $100. @ Lowes. In retrospect ( plus after ~ the 30th hole ;)) I was wishing I'd have gotten one.


Re: Drilling into the floor/walls.
Before doing that, and I apologize for not reading more carefully the initial post, make sure the walls and/or floors aren't pre-stressed concrete.
I'm not 100% sure why you aren't supposed to drill into it, but I've read a lot online that you're not supposed to.

[Loren Hedahl]

I am wondering why not just use some polyurethane construction adhesive?