Putting round dog holes in 4" bench top ?

[Doug Shepard]

Just for the sake of argument, lets say I want to make my own workbench top 4" thick, with round dog holes. What are my options?
My first thought was a 3/4 Forster bit but all the ones I can find dont have a long enough shank. My next thought was a router bit to do a plunge cut but short lenghts are also the issue here plus I think I'd have to use 2 different length bits. Not sure off the top of my head, but I dont think 4" plunge travel is do-able even if I could find a long bit.
The only thing I've spotted is a 3/4" HSS Lipped Brad-Point bit from LV - 6" with 3" of fluting. That looks like it would work, but thought I'd troll for any other suggestions.

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Brace and bit.

One doesn't need to make the top into Swiss cheese in order to have effective placement of dog holes...so planned out well there isn't that many holes to bore. Figure 5 mintutes a hole by the time you are done.

You can also bore part way down with the Forstner and a guide block. That will lessen the amount of time required for using the brace as well as provide positive vertical alignment.

Take care, Mike

[Jason Beam]

One doesn't need to make the top into Swiss cheese in order to have effective placement of dog holes...so planned out well there isn't that many holes to bore.

Sorry to hijack ... but Mike, could you point me to some info that might help me plan my hole placement well? I'm planning 3/4" holes for both front and end vises - and maybe a couple for my holdfasts, too?

[Bill White]

When I built my bench (out of bowling alley maple) I used one of the silly bench top drill holders. Kinda like a poor man's mini drill press. I was able to clamp it to the bench top and then drill the holes for the dogs and hold fast with a spade bit. Drilled slowly and everything worked out just fine.
Bill

[Doug Shepard]

Sorry to hijack ... but Mike, could you point me to some info that might help me plan my hole placement well? I'm planning 3/4" holes for both front and end vises - and maybe a couple for my holdfasts, too?

Hijack away. Saves me from having to ask the same question later.
I'm also wondering about some in the bench face for using one of these
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1,43838&p=57059

Put a separate post in the Neander section on those. I haven't found any mention of anybody trying these yet.

[Aaron Hamilton]

How bout a 6" long auger bit from the borg - nice clean hole and plenty of length. I have some that I bought, I think they are from the blue borg and are Kobalt brand maybe? Anyways...6" long - 12 bucks for a set of 3, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4.

Hope that helps!

[Tyler Howell]

When I built my bench (out of bowling alley maple) I used one of the silly bench top drill holders. Kinda like a poor man's mini drill press. I was able to clamp it to the bench top and then drill the holes for the dogs and hold fast with a spade bit. Drilled slowly and everything worked out just fine.
Bill

Ditto!!!
Worked good.

[Jeff Wright]

I am very pleased with the 3/4" Lee Valley brad point bit I used in the show-and-tell at this link:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=57406

You'll also see how I created a jig to both guide the bit and align the holes accurately.

[Ken Werner]

If you're not feeling too neander, how about starting the hole with a nice clean Forstner, then finishing with a down and dirty spade bit in a 'lectric drill?

As for figuring the spacing, I think if you figure the maximum opening of your tail vise, it's range - open to closed - will give you the approximate distance you need between dog holes to be able to accomodate pieces between them.

Ken

[Brian Penning]

Maybe dumb question but why do the holes have to go all the way through?

[Jeff Wright]

As for figuring the spacing, I think if you figure the maximum opening of your tail vise, it's range - open to closed - will give you the approximate distance you need between dog holes to be able to accomodate pieces between them.

Ken

I agree with one exception: make sure your spacing is LESS THAN the maximum opening. Otherwise, you may find you can't apply sufficiently tight vise pressure on your workpiece when the piece is a certain dimension.

[Gary Herrmann]

Drill bit extender for your forstner. I've got a 5" extender. Available from a variety of sources for various shank sizes.

[Robert Mayer]

I used a spade bit on mine. Worked pretty fast and left a clean straight hole.

[glenn bradley]

Sorry to hijack ... but Mike, could you point me to some info that might help me plan my hole placement well? I'm planning 3/4" holes for both front and end vises - and maybe a couple for my holdfasts, too?

You should be able to clamp something between the dog on your vise jaw and the dog hole, being able to reach the next dog hole by the distance that your vice jaws extend.

That was confusing . . . another way to look at it is; with your vise jaws about 1/2" open, measure from the vise jaw dog hole to a possible location of a bench dog. Open your vise jaws all the way and then close them about 1/2". Measure that distance. That spacing would allow you to tighten to either dog and theoretically any other equally spaced dog.

Now after all that brew-ha-ha, I put mine on 6" centers despite having a 10" vise.

[glenn bradley]

Here's what I did; 3 x 3 guide block drilled on the DP at 6" centers and clampd in position:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=65523&d=1180501803

Support the underside with a backer board to avoid blowout.

I used Rockler's # 25782 3/4" Standard Brad Point. I didn't want the self feeding auger-type; I wanted to control the feed rate.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10613&filter=brad%20point

Ongoing bench thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=57879

[Ken Werner]

Brian - because if you don't they get clogged up with all sorts of stuff. And the brass screws you need for the job....[that a magnet won't grab]

Jeff - you are correct. thanks for the clarification.

Glenn - I think me too. Then again, the tail vise I have now isn't the one that was there when I drilled the holes.

Ken

[glenn bradley]

Maybe dumb question but why do the holes have to go all the way through?

They fill up with 'stuff' otherwise.

[Kyle Kraft]

That way your cigarette butts fall through to the floor for easy cleanup!!

[Mike K Wenzloff]

No worries Jason (at least not from me...)

I have exactly 4 dog holes in my bench and 3 in my face vise. I do not have a tail vise (don't like them per se). One of these days if I build another bench, I may put a wagon vise in it as a former bench had one and I used it a bit.

Dog holes. I have no reference to point you to. It does depend on what type of work one does. Short of clamping down larger items, what exactly are all the holes for?

In the past, I built furniture, mainly free standing cabinets. If my bench was full of holes, I would have never used 90% of them.

So any advice is simply to consider what it is one builds and how it will be held to a bench. You may find you need a bench with gobs of holes. Then again, you may fine you need very few.

One can always add holes. (One can also plug them if they are unnedded <g>.)

Take care, Mike

[Kyle Kraft]

Hey Glenn, put a non-OSHA approved, bootleg, 1/4" extendo tip on your air nozzle to blow "stuff" out of the blind holes. Works good to stick down into your work boots between the sock and the boot. Give it a blast and it's like A/C for the dogs!

[Eddie Darby]

Forstner Drill bit extenders is one possible option.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/forset1.htm#forstner_extender_anchor

[Dick Heifner]

:confused: Has anybody tried to drill thru 4" of mdf? That is what have for a bench top with a hardboard insert. I have tried everything but making smaller pilot holes and working my way up to 3/4" holes, I can't belive how it eats up bits.
Dick

[Ray Moser]

My thought as I read your question about spacing was "if the vise has 6" of travel then I would put the holes at about 5"". That should ensure that you always have enough range to tighten up on any work piece.

[Jim Becker]

I bought a brand new Irwin spade bit with the little cutting wings and used it to do the dog holes in my bench...cut like butter in the hard maple and went in darn clean. (I could have improved the exit by clamping a waste block under the bench. Now mine is a about 2 1/4" thick, so it went a little quicker than your 4" bench will go...

BTW, double, triple and quadruple check the locations for your holes before you drill them.... DAMHIKT!!

[Randy Klein]

I used a spade bit and a drill guide. I may have predrilled with a smaller twist bit to give the spade something to track.

[Doug Shepard]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I've got to remember to do the Google search instead of the regular one. I think I would have found some of these other bench threads with the answers earlier. I do have one of the drilling guides that Bill & Tyler mentioned but was originally planning on heaving the whole top onto the DP and stands so hadn't considered it. Also have spade bits which I hadn't considered but no brace or auger bits. The one that has the most appeal to me though is getting the LV brad point and following Jeff's lead. Any method that lets you stand on the furniture cant be all bad.:D

[Gary Keedwell]

:confused: Has anybody tried to drill thru 4" of mdf? That is what have for a bench top with a hardboard insert. I have tried everything but making smaller pilot holes and working my way up to 3/4" holes, I can't belive how it eats up bits.
Dick

I bought a carbide forstner to do mine. Worked great.:)

Gary K.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Maybe dumb question but why do the holes have to go all the way through?

1. So they don't fill up with sawdust.

2. They have to be deep enough to handle your bench dogs and hold fasts. My bench dogs are over 3" deep and the hold fasts are over 5".

Cliff

[Kelly Anderson]

I have just started on mine, here is what I came up with: First decide where you want your holes, I decide on 7" centers 7" from the sides of the bench. I got a scrap of plywood longer than my bench is wide, clamped it square to my bench top edges and screwed a fence to the bottom at each end and marked it 7" from each edge of my bench centered on the plywood width. I then drilled 1" holes on each of those marks. I put my 3/4" o.d. bushing in the router and my 2 1/2" long 1/2" bit. The bit sticks out past the bushing a little and is just too long to sit flat on the plywood but if you can tilt the router a little to get it started. I found the eaisest way to do it is to plunge the bit straight down as far as you can without moving it then vacuum the saw dust (I think the bushing makes it too tight for good dust collection and the dust collects around the hole in the plywood). After that you make a couple of passes moving the router around this time and vacuuming after. Then you get your 3/4" auger bit and brace to finish the last 1" or so. Stop drilling just after the screw point passes through the bottom of the top and then finish from the bottom to avoid blowout. My bench top is 4" and so far this has worked great for me.

[glenn bradley]

Hey Glenn, put a non-OSHA approved, bootleg, 1/4" extendo tip on your air nozzle to blow "stuff" out of the blind holes. Works good to stick down into your work boots between the sock and the boot. Give it a blast and it's like A/C for the dogs!

:D :D :D :D . . . ahhhhhh, it works.

[glenn bradley]

:confused: Has anybody tried to drill thru 4" of mdf? That is what have for a bench top with a hardboard insert. I have tried everything but making smaller pilot holes and working my way up to 3/4" holes, I can't belive how it eats up bits.
Dick

Hmmmm. I had no trouble with a corded drill and the Rockler bit mentioned earlier. Cordless drills do not go fast enough for this kind of work IMHO.

[joe greiner]

In the past year or so, Irwin has introduced a line of triple-flute bits. Still use the "Speedbor" trademark, but they're not spade bits. Generally 6" long, and extenders are available. Many sizes available. They work great on end grain as well as face grain. No affiliation, etc.

Joe

[John Schreiber]

Hey Glenn, put a non-OSHA approved, bootleg, 1/4" extendo tip on your air nozzle to blow "stuff" out of the blind holes. Works good to stick down into your work boots between the sock and the boot. Give it a blast and it's like A/C for the dogs!
I'm going to buy a compressor for sure now.

On a more related note, I found that a spade bit with sharp edges did the job just fine on hardboard and MDF. The only challenge is that if the MDF is not glued together thoroughly a plug of MDF will start spinning with the drill bit as you get to the bottom of the sheet. DAMHIKT.