Benchgrinder vs Tormek for sharpening turning tools

[Joern T Larsen]

I am using a 6" bench grinder with a Veritas and Wolverine grinding jig combo with 60 and 80 grit wheels that yields very decent results. But I am looking into getting a Tormek grinding system as I have many handtools incl carving tools (not HSS) that are too easy to overheat when using my bench grinder.

Are there any disadvantages in using a Tormek system when grinding turning/HSS tools? I am thinking of retiring the bench grinder, and only use it for grinding toolbits etc for my metal lathe as well as a drill bit now and then.

Another thing about the Tormek system is that it is dust free, while benchgrinding causes quite some dust.

Thanks!

Joern

[Dick Strauss]

Joern,
The Tormek tends to be a little slow sharpening turning tools IMHO. The Tormek does take off less metal to get a sharp edge.

My buddy that has both usually uses his high speed grinder for his turning tools.

[Bill Wyko]

I have the Jet wet system. The reason for using a wet system is to prevent loosing the temper. I don't believe it's as critical on HSS but might as well be safe than sorry.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have a slow speed and high speed myself. I find the Tormek to slow for me. When I am turning I want to take a couple of swipes on the grinder and go. I sold mine to my brother. Mighty fine for planes, chisels, etc.

[Joern T Larsen]

Joern,
The Tormek tends to be a little slow sharpening turning tools IMHO. The Tormek does take off less metal to get a sharp edge. ...

That is what I thought - the sharpening might take more time. Well, maybe I am better off using a benchgrinder for the HSS turning tools.

Thanks!

Joern

[Mark Pruitt]

The Tormek has its followers and is a great machine for what it does, but I definitely would not use it to sharpen HSS turning tools. First, it is slower--and who wants to spend more time at the grinder? Second, the ultra-fine surface left by the Tormek is unnecessary for almost all turning tools. In a word, it's slow and it's overkill. I'd stick with what you're using.


I have the Jet wet system. The reason for using a wet system is to prevent loosing the temper. I don't believe it's as critical on HSS but might as well be safe than sorry.
HSS tools do not lose their temper if the tip gets "blued" during grinding. They may look ugly, but they don't lose their temper.

[Steven Wilson]

I sharpen my turning tools on a Tormek, I grind new profiles on a bench grinder. To sharpen it takes the same time using a Wolverine jig setup on an 8" grinder as it does with the Tormek. I have both setups and use both, I prefer to sharpen on the Tormek.

As for chisels and plane irons, I will grind those on the Tormek or bench grinder but I sharpen them with Shapton stones.

[Patrick Taylor]

I have the tormek. Sharpening is fast on a tormek, but reshaping is slow. Others have commented that the tormek leaves a very sharp edge. I haven't used a grinder so I'm not sure. I hadn't thought about dust, but I do feel better without sparks going everywhere when I have buckets of jet-fuel and kindling on the shop floor! Only complaint: remembering to refill the evaporated water. (Bill, in AZ is that about every 5 minutes? ;))

[Bill Wyko]

:D You ain't lyin! I have to refill every day for sure. It's empty daily. I think the stone makes it evaporate quicker.:confused: For touching up and getting back to work it works real well. The other thing I like is that you don't risk accidently changing the shape too quickly.

[Wilbur Pan]

Another thing about the Tormek system is that it is dust free, while benchgrinding causes quite some dust.
This is exactly why I got a Tormek. The thought of not having to inhale grinder wheel and metal dust appeals to me. Not to mention not having to deal with sparks.

From a practical standpoint, I've found that there is no difference between a Tormek and a grinder/Wolverine jig when it comes to sharpening/honing a turning tool that is already set up. There is a difference if you are trying to put a new profile on a turning tool, but I was able to take a gouge with a regular profile to a fingernail profile in about 10 minutes, which seemed reasonable to me. This will be a one time operation for most people.

And if you are not constantly reshaping the profile of your tool, one could argue that using a Tormek = longer tool life = money saved, since you remove less metal to sharpen a tool using a Tormek than you would using a grinder.

[Jim Becker]

I sharpen so frequently when I'm turning that a slow speed, wet system like the Tormek would likely drive me nuts. I use an 8" 3650 rpm grinder with 60 and 100 grit Norton 3x wheels, the OneWay balancing system and the Wolverine setup for sharpening my turning tools. (And an adapter to use my Ellsworth jig for those tools) On particularly hard or ornery material such as spalted stock and it's infusion of calcite, I sharpen about every two or three minutes when doing serious turning. More often for those final, shear finishing cuts. Now these are very light sharpening with very little metal removed, but they happen and happen often.

[Bill Wyko]

Jim, would you mind posting a picture of you're setup for sharpening your Elsworth?

[Jim Becker]

Bill, here are the pictures you requested.

Original Wolverine arm with spacer block to raise pivot point to the correct level for the Ellsworth sharpening jig:

68715

Geiger adjustable height arm:

68716

Geiger jig for setting distance from face of the wheel:

68717

Ellsworth sharpening jig - front bevel rotation point

68718

Ellsworth sharpening jig - side grind rotation point

68719

It's critical that the pivot point for the Ellsworth jig be at a certain height relative to the center line of the wheel as well as horizontally out from the wheel. Using a jig to set this distance insures a consistent grind even as the wheel gets smaller from use. I made a simple one from 1/4" ply when I was using the original Wolverine arm; the Geiger vertically adjustable arm as you see, comes with a jig for setting the distance from the wheel before each turning session.

[Dennis Peacock]

I have both a grinder/jib setup as well as a Tormek. Once the profile is ground via my grinder, I can setup the Tormek to sharpen. Time? With it all setup for a bowl gouge....it's just as easy and as fast as using my grinder. I do like the edge I get off the Tormek better, but my grinder does sit closer to the lathe due to the way my shop is setup...so it gets used most when turning. ;)

[Harvey M. Taylor]

Ditto to what everyone says about changing the profile, bench grinder wins everytime. Since most of my turning is bowls I use the Ellsworth grind.Aside from not eating the dust off a bench grinder, Tormek claims, and I agree sharpening can be accomplished in less than a minute. Besides, there is the leather strop right there.Everyone agrees that leather stropping refines the edge somewhat.My story and I'm sticking to it.

[Patrick Taylor]

you don't risk accidently changing the shape too quickly.

Amen! I like my tormek. :)

[Mark Pruitt]

Another thing about the Tormek system is that it is dust free, while benchgrinding causes quite some dust.

By "dust" I'm not sure if you're referring to grinder shavings; if so, then they fall to the floor rather quickly and are not a respiratory threat unless you're really, really short.:rolleyes: The only "dust" is created when dressing the wheels. Even then, it is not a threat. I simply take a deep breath, dress the wheel, exhale and walk away for a few seconds.

But if by "dust" you are simply referring to the mess, my take on that is that shops exist for the purpose of creating messes, so grinder shavings don't bother me.;) :cool:

[Jeff Farris]

I have both a grinder/jib setup as well as a Tormek. Once the profile is ground via my grinder, I can setup the Tormek to sharpen. Time? With it all setup for a bowl gouge....it's just as easy and as fast as using my grinder. I do like the edge I get off the Tormek better, but my grinder does sit closer to the lathe due to the way my shop is setup...so it gets used most when turning. ;)

Hey, Dennis, the Springfield, MO turners club is meeting at TORMEK's U.S. headquarters on Saturday morning. I'll be demonstrating the difference between turning with ground tools and turning with sharpened tools. You and any other "Creek'rs" in the area are welcome to join us. We're about 10 miles North of Springfield off Highway 13. I'll be turning on Ol' Blue -- my lathe built by New Zealand turner Soren Berger out of 5 engine blocks (2 - six cylinder and 3 - fours). You can hit Bass Pro Shop and Grizzly on your way home, too. :D

[jeff ferguson]

I have been using a slow-speed (1750 rpm) bench grinder for years, but recently purchased a jet wet sharpening system. I can sharpen a bowl gouge in less than a minute on the jet (and that includes adding water). What I have noticed is not so much the increased sharpness, but the durability of the edge. With the bench grinder I would sharpen at least once roughing the exterior of a large bowl blank. Since I started using the jet, I can easily go 3-4 bowls without sharpening. This is with the same gouge and shape of the grnid. I think it might be that the wet grinter is not removing the temper of the tool. I really thought the opposite would be true, and the wet grinder would put on a sharper edge, but need resharpening more often. This has not been the case.
Good luck,
Jeff

[Reed Gray]

I did buy a Tormek for my bench tools, and tried it on my lathe tools only once. I found it too slow, and the wheel needed to be dressed constantly. In my search for the perfect grinding wheels, I ended up with CBN wheels. I think that stands for carbon boric nitride. Very hard, custom made in any grit (I use 80 for scrapers and shaping, and 320 for gouges). I love the edge I get, and they last forever. The bad thing is that they cost about $300 for an 8 by 1 inch wheel. They are an aluminum wheel with 3/16 inch of material bonded to the aluminum. The wheel comes balanced. You can not dress the wheel when it goes out of round, you have to take it back to the manufacturer who uses a special very hard aluminum oxide wheel to dress it. You clean it with an aluminum oxide wheel. If you try to use a diamond dresser on it, it will eat the diamonds. My grinder wheel is over 3 years old and shows very little wear. I am on my second gouge wheel, getting about a year and a half out of the last one. I don't think I could get 6 months out of an aluminum oxide wheel. I do turn a lot of bowls. Diamond wheels work fine on carbide, but don't do well with steel because they load up and can't/are very hard to clean. CBN is made for grinding steel. I have never timed myself on sharpening time, but cleaning the wheel and sharpening all 4 gouges that I use may take me 2 to 3 minutes. The 320 wheel does make the gouges last a lot longer than a 120 or 80 grit wheel.
robo hippy