table saw?

[Kent E. Matthew]

I am considering a Grizz G0478 table saw. For those of you who have contractor saws is the extra cost for the cabinet worth it? Why? All of you Grizz G0478 owners how do you like yours? Sorry I don't have the time to search right now. I am at work.:eek:

[Gary Keedwell]

Well Kent, I have never seen anybody post " gee, now that I have it home, I should have gotten a contractor saw" .:rolleyes: I guess if you are on a limited budget, you could go for a hybrid. I bought my Unisaw 12 years ago and haven't looked back.
Gary K

[scott spencer]

Hi Kent - There is zero advantage to having the motor hanging out the back unless you need to remove it often, and several disadvantages to having it there. The contractor saw is a nearly 60 year old design that essentially has a limited future in the market place.

The hybrids offer many of the same advantages of an industrial style cabinet saw, but with similar homeshop duty rating and power requirements of a contractor saw. They offer better DC, smaller footprint, shorter drive belt, more mass, and pose no threat of lifting things when the motor is beveled. The contractor saw and the hybrid have similar cutting capabilities but the hybrid removes several of the issues of dealing with the outboard motor.

A full 3hp industrial cabinet saw has even more advantages but puts you firmly into the $1k range (for new) and requires 220v.

[Chuck Lenz]

I looked at the saw your looking at buying, the hybrid has a couple of advantages from what I can tell. One it has cast extension wing, or wings, and then I'm sure people will claim it has better dust collection than the Contractors saw. The downside I would think is if the motor ever goes out on the hybrid, you'd probably have to buy it from Grizzly, Contractors saws you can buy a motor from just about anyone. I have a Delta Contractors saw with a 30" Unifence, and mobile base that i bought new in 1985. I put a Fenner Drives PowerTwist link belt on it, made my own dust port for it, wired it for 220 volts, and for what I do I haven't seen a need to upgrade to a cabinet saw yet. But to each his own.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Yah it's worth it. And so is the extra few Gees for a nice slider.

[Chuck Lenz]

As far as the motor hanging out the back on a Contractors saw I really don't think it's that big of a issue, people usually have a outfeed table or roller stand behind the saw when useing a tablesaw anyway. And the issue of dust collection, thats over blown also. With the dust chute I made for my Contractors saw and the 1500 CFM dust collector I'm useing theres nothing flying out the backside of the cabinet.

[scott spencer]

As far as the motor hanging out the back on a Contractors saw I really don't think it's that big of a issue, people usually have a outfeed table or roller stand behind the saw when useing a tablesaw anyway. And the issue of dust collection, thats over blown also. With the dust chute I made for my Contractors saw and the 1500 CFM dust collector I'm useing theres nothing flying out the backside of the cabinet.

I agree that the motor out the back is not a "big" issue if you already own one, but there are several downsides to it. If given the choice of buying a new saw, what benefit does the outboard motor offer?

I made the switch from a tricked out GI contractor saw that I like alot to a 22124 hybrid largely b/c of an attractive sale price, and am very pleased with the advantages overall. I no longer have to remember to pull the panel off the back to bevel the blade. I no longer worry about picking up my workbench and knocking out the alignment. The shorter belt has better power transfer and lower vibration, and the DC is still better than my homemade attempts to box in the contractor saw...though without an above table DC setup some dust comes off the blade on all saws.

FYI...Most of the hybrid motors are stock NEMA 56 frames that are nearly identical to the contractor saw motors. Not sure about the Griz.

[Chuck Lenz]

Scott, The bennefit to the motor hanging out the back is the saw is the saw is $200 cheaper. lol . I don't have to worry about takeing a cover off the back of my saw either when makeing a bevel cut, there is no cover to get in the way. http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c89/Woodchuck_/SawBack.jpghttp://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c89/Woodchuck_/100_0059_2.jpg

[scott spencer]

Chuck - You're setup is a bit more clever than mine was. $200 would be a pretty attractive benefit in the short term! :D

[Matt Lentzner]

I don't understand why contractor saws are even made anymore. Are there any "contractors" out there that really take advantage of the features? A good quality portables seem to have made the design obsolete. I'm especially baffled why SawStop would make one as opposed to a hybrid.

My requirements would be a hybrid with a dust shroud and riving knife. I have the Bosch 4000 which has both of those features so I wouldn't downgrade to get a "better" saw.

Honestly, I'm a little disappointed in the major N. American tool manufacturers that keep cranking out the same half century old designs.

Matt

[Joe Mioux]

Kent,

I have a GI contractor saw with 50 inch rails and have never really HAD A NEED, to buy anything larger. It is a very good saw and I enjoy using it.

BUT.....

Considering how my more recent major tool purchases have gone these last two years, I would now buy either a Saw Stop or a true slider, probably a MM slider of some sort.

I appreciate my fingers, hands and other body parts, and a safer saw is a worthy investment.

Bear in mind, I have never had any major accidents, other than a couple minor kickback issues which I have learned from. Those kickback incidents would have probably been worse with a 3 hp motor compared to my 2 hp motor.

Joe

[Clint Winterhalter]

I am considering a Grizz G0478 table saw. For those of you who have contractor saws is the extra cost for the cabinet worth it? Why? All of you Grizz G0478 owners how do you like yours? Sorry I don't have the time to search right now. I am at work.:eek:

Kent I bought a new saw a couple of months ago. I looked at the GO478. Its a nice unit, gets ok reviews (from what I remember). For another $230 you could step into 1023S. It would give you 3HP / Shop Fox Classic fence (decent Bies Clone) / Cabinet mounted trunnion assembly. I think its would be money well spent.
Here's a link to popular wood workings AWFS show review: www.popularwoodworking.com/awfs#riving (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/awfs#riving) It looks like manufactures are doing some major updating of their saw lines. You might want to wait, or you might also be able to score a smoking deal as they empty the pipeline to make room for the new stuff..

I bought the shopfox W1677 / basically the 1023 with a white paint job / great value for the $ (in my book that is). Many creekers own one also, it generally get good reviews on this form (thats why I bought it!)

I also agree with the other folks, I managed OK with my contractor saw. Two things caused me to get ride of it. The trunnion liked to wander and space became an issue. My shop does double duty as my two car garage. Both cars sleep inside almost every night. Granted I didn't pick up a ton of room when I made the switch, it did allow me to better arrange my tools and make them easier to get to..

Good luck with your purchase / buy quality / something you won't have to UPGRADE to get it the way you want it. (I think my $500 Cman Saw had $500 worth of upgrades over the years!;) )

[Kent E. Matthew]

My budget is contractor. One consideration is I really don't have a place to put a high dollar cabinet saw. I am planning to partially enclose my metal carport. I have been collecting chunks of red oak from a trucking company for many years now. 3"x5"x 42". I plan to cut these up into 3"x3/4x42" boards. Would a horse and a half contractor have the power to process this rough oak?

[Steven Wilson]

Surface two faces on a jointer (to get square). Bandsaw to rough thickness then run through a planer. Since you're getting more than 1 3/4" slab after each cut run the rough face over a jointer then repeat with the bandsaw. A contractor saw doesn't really have the capacity.

[Doug Shepard]

...For those of you who have contractor saws is the extra cost for the cabinet worth it?...

I think so, but take a look on the tools listings on craigslist for any city. Count the number of used contractor saws for sale vs. the number of used cabinet saws. That ought to tell you something. Even if not every CS seller is upgrading, the cabinet saw owners tend to keep what they've bought while the CS owners often end up upgrading later.

[scott spencer]

My budget is contractor. One consideration is I really don't have a place to put a high dollar cabinet saw. I am planning to partially enclose my metal carport. I have been collecting chunks of red oak from a trucking company for many years now. 3"x5"x 42". I plan to cut these up into 3"x3/4x42" boards. Would a horse and a half contractor have the power to process this rough oak?

Kent - 1.5hp definitely has the potential to handle just about any wood to full blade height, but it'll be less forgiving than a 3hp cab saw. If you plan to flatten and straighten the surfaces on a jointer, the task becomes more predictable and easier. Good alignment of the blade, fence, throat plate, and splitter, combined with the right blade for the job make it very possible. (IMO the right blade for that job is a decent 24 tooth thin kerf (3/32") ripper like the Leitz, Infinity, or Freud LU87.) Motor power is only part of the equation too...the power transfer through the belt is factor. Shorter drive belts have more efficient power transfer, which is another advantage of the hybrid and cab saw design.

[Tim Morton]

My budget is contractor. One consideration is I really don't have a place to put a high dollar cabinet saw. I am planning to partially enclose my metal carport. I have been collecting chunks of red oak from a trucking company for many years now. 3"x5"x 42". I plan to cut these up into 3"x3/4x42" boards. Would a horse and a half contractor have the power to process this rough oak?

That sounds more like a bandsaw job to me...but I agree with those who say the 1023s should get some consideration:)

[Maurice Ungaro]

My budget is contractor. One consideration is I really don't have a place to put a high dollar cabinet saw. I am planning to partially enclose my metal carport. I have been collecting chunks of red oak from a trucking company for many years now. 3"x5"x 42". I plan to cut these up into 3"x3/4x42" boards. Would a horse and a half contractor have the power to process this rough oak?

Kent,
I ripped quite a few 100+ year old heart pine boards (think real resin laden) with my old contrator 1.5 hp powered saw, and it did fine. I was also running a Forrest WWII blade. However, it seems like a bandsaw is what you need. Oh, darn, ANOTHER wood working tool!

[Joe Mioux]

My budget is contractor. One consideration is I really don't have a place to put a high dollar cabinet saw. I am planning to partially enclose my metal carport. I have been collecting chunks of red oak from a trucking company for many years now. 3"x5"x 42". I plan to cut these up into 3"x3/4x42" boards. Would a horse and a half contractor have the power to process this rough oak?

Yes:

I have been cutting 150 yr old 2 1/2 to almost 3 inch thick red oak and white oak barn timbers with my 2 hp contractor saw. These beams are 8 inches wide and 12 feet long.

If you go slow it will work, but a BS would work better.

[Paul Douglass]

There is nothing wrong with a contractor saw, I worked with one for almost 30 years, but if you have a choice, I think it is more prudent to go hybrid or cabinet saw. You don't have to build a nice sheet metal shroud to get decient dust collection (very nice job, by the way), The cabinet has a smaller foot print, I read where a lot of people think the contractor saw takes up less space, the biggest improvement I found after finally getting cabinet saw is I'm not fighting to keep it aligned all the time like I was when I had the contractor saw. My cabinet saw was good to go out of the box, except tweaking the fence a little, but most important it has stayed put. Anyway, if given the choice I'd do cabinet or hybrid even if it meant waiting to get a good buy on a used one. Took me 30 years to realize that, but I'm not slow!:)

[Chuck Lenz]

I think the higher dollar saws are just a fad for the average woodworker, as in who's got the nicest toys. I'm not saying that a Unisaw isn't worth the extra cost. But in reality, how many woodworkers are truely makeing a respectable liveing at woodworking? If your doing it as a profession then by all means you need a better than average saw. If you have employees, then the a SawStop probably makes sense insurance wise. If someday I ever feel a need to upgrade from the Contractors saw that I have now I won't be buying a hybrid. For about the same amount of money as a new imported hybrid there are used Unisaws from hobby shops out there that were made in the USA. But I doubt I will. I've been a woodworker for about 25 years, and a couple years ago I tried going out on my own and failed after about 5 years of struggling. I'm not a rich guy, I guess if I had a unlimited amount of money I'd be in the race for the nicest shop filled with the nicest toys. But unfortunatly I'm not.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Kent,
I think you will benefit greatly from having a more powerful motor. My brother recently upgraded to a 3hp cabinet (a meticulously restored Unisaw that he bought for $900) and is ecsatic about being able to rip 8/4 stock at a brisk pace.

What's the price of the hybrid that you are considering? For not much more, I'm sure that you can get a good reconditioned cabinet saw. That's waht I'm doing - and with the proceeds from the sale of my contractor's saw, I'm not out of pocket a whole lot.

I'll say this though, I'm sure gonna miss my cast iron Benchdog router table extension on the CS (was part of the condition of sale).

[Matt Meiser]

By the time you add a good fence and dust collection to a contractor saw, you are probably going to spend in the same neighborhood as a cabinet saw. Early on when I was convinced new was best, I bought a Delta contractor saw with a nice Biesemeyer fence. I've enclosed the leg area (back is still open) and put a 6" dust port in. It does an excellent job of getting the dust. However, for what I spent, I could have gotten a Grizzly 1023 and would have a better saw, arguably with better support given Delta's recent direction. A cabinet saw is significantly beefier than contractor saw. Look a Chuck's pictures above and compare them to pictures of the inside of a 1023 or any other cabinet saw. As a result, the machines run much smoother. Another advantage of hybrid and cabinet saws is that the motor doesn't get in the way for storage if your saw is going to be mobile.

As to power, 3HP is going to cut better than 1-1/2 or 2HP. Using a thin kerf blade for ripping will allow your contractor saw to do a better job of keeping up.

A contractor saw will serve you well, but if you can swing it, spend the money on a cabinet saw, even (especially?) a used one.

[Chuck Lenz]

You guys need to also point out that a cabinet saw runs on 220 volts. For some people thats a added cost to put 220 in the shop, or may not even be possible in some cases.

[glenn bradley]

If you haven't started with a contractor saw that you are replacing, there's no need to take that expensive intermediate step. You'll find endless posts here by folks (including me) who have upgraded to an enclosed saw. With the number of hybrids and small cab saws on the market now, I see no reason to get a contractor's saw unless you are using it as one. My .02

If my post seems a little abrupt, I am trying to help. There are few things I had to replace even though I was gently informed that my original purchase decision may not be all that good in the long run. If I'd been hit with a 2x4 instead of the intelligent, kind words used, I might have saved some dough. I'm a slow learner but, I am trainable. Haven't bought something I had to replace for quite a spell now. Thanks SMC!

[Kent E. Matthew]

I have been working with a Delta Uni. A very old one set up on 110 with a 1 HP motor. Fence is terrible. With this saw I have had to sometimes take an 1 1/2 pass. Flip the oak over and make another pass. We have a very old upright band saw that I tried running some of this oak through using a 1/2 wood blade. Didn't work worth a poop. The hybrid I was considering was the Grizz 0478 2HP.

[Chuck Lenz]

Delta made a 1hp Uni ? I'm suprised. Why not upgrade the motor to something larger and put a new fence on it ? Unless it's totally worn out and beat to a pulp I wouldn't part with it.

[Cody Colston]

I recently upgraded from a CS to a 3 hp cabinet saw. I would never go back.

Dust collection on my CS was very good as I had placed a piece of melamine between the saw and stand with a 6" DC outlet connected to my cyclone. The back had a piece of hardboard with cutouts for the belt and motor bracket. Magnetic tape around the perimeter held it in place but it still had to be removed for angled cuts.

The biggest advantage that a cabinet saw has over a contractor-type or even some hybrid saws is that the trunnions are attached to the cabinet instead of the table top. That not only makes alignment easier to accomplish, it retains that alignment nearly indefinitely and there is less vibration.

For sawing up those Red Oak planks, a band saw is the correct tool. Even though it can be done on a TS, you will have to make two passes for a 3" thick board (on a 10" saw) and there will be a lot of waste from the wider kerf.

[Maurice Ungaro]

At that price, it's not that much more than a hybrid saw... http://www.redmondmachinery.com/

I'm just sayin'................