Tormek w/4000 stone

[Randy Klein]

Has anyone tried the 4000 grit stone with the Tormek? If so, what do you think of the results? I imagine once all your bevels are established, you can leave this stone on the majority of the time for touchup honing.

[Harvey M. Taylor]

If it didnt come with it, I dont know what it is. You can change the grit on the one that came with it. You can also change it back. Other than that, I dont have a clue. Dont think this helped, did it?

[Kurt Whitley]

I'm asking out of ignorance, but why do you need a finer stone? Won't the leather honing wheel provide a better edge than a 4000 grit stone?

Cheers,
Kurt

[Randy Klein]

I'm asking out of ignorance, but why do you need a finer stone? Won't the leather honing wheel provide a better edge than a 4000 grit stone?

Cheers,
Kurt

The leather honing wheel will polish (using LV's green rouge) the surface left by the 1000 grit, but not necessarily make it smooth (since the grit difference is substantial). (This is Derek Cohen's distinction (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=21550) between sharp and smooth.) So using an intermediate grit, like the 4000 available form JapanWoodworker (http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01%2E098%2E4000&dept_id=13267) and Highland Hardware (http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2053), helps lessen the grit difference and thus makes a sharp and smooth surface. This is most important for smoothing irons.

[Dennis Peacock]

Many/most woodturners use an 80 grit A/O wheel and turn right off the wheel. I use a 120 grit wheel on mine just because I like the edge from a 120 grit wheel. I do have a Tormek and have used it for several years. Unfortunately, sharpening is one of those topics that "can" get out of hand and out of control in a hurry because many people have many understandings about what "sharp" is to "them".

In general, when you sharpen a tool in your shop or in mine? You are putting an edge on a tool that you would call sharp to what "your sharp" means to you.

Taig Frid sharpens with a 220 grit sanding belt then goes over to a buffing wheel with black metal polishing compound and buffs the bevel and he can shave with that edge.

To me? If an edge cuts and cuts well with the expected results you are looking for? Then it's sharp enough. If you need to sharpen on a 4000 grit waterstone to get an edge you desire and need in order to cut wood? Then I say go for it. Out of all the sharpening that I've done, I have yet to come across any edge tool that I would need an edge any more sharp than the standard Tormek 1000 grit stone and then hitting the leather strop on the Tormek with the 8000 grit compound.

For the last several years of woodworking, I've gone by how an edge cuts and not what it looks like to satisfy my edge tool requirements. I used to worry about what an edge looked like before I could call it sharp. All I can honestly say is that I sure waisted a lot of shop time just working on making a cutting edge "look" good. ;)

In short, ask 100 woodworkers that "sharp" is and you'll get 100 different answers. :D

[Tony De Masi]

Dennis, I agree completely with your statements with one exception:

"In short, ask 100 woodworkers that "sharp" is and you'll get 100 different answers."

I think in asking 100 woodworkers that question you will at least get 150 different answers. :D

Tony

[Randy Klein]

In short, ask 100 woodworkers that "sharp" is and you'll get 100 different answers. :D

It probably be closer to 150 answers...:D

Ah, Tony beat me to it :p

[Randy Klein]

Dennis,

You mention using this with turning tools. I'm interested in it for plane and chisel irons. Especially Jet's cambering jig they have that will work on it.

Do you use this for plane irons or chisels as well? And is it sharp enough for you for those tools?

[Tony De Masi]

Randy,

I've used the Tormek for turning tools, chisels, planer knives, kitchen knives, and more.

To ME, the two grits on the grinding stone combined with the leather strop and compound works very well. This is just my opinion and is in no way a scientific experiment.

Tony

[Wilbur Pan]

Randy,

You're posting this in the Turning forum, so I'm going to guess that you're primarily looking to use a 4000 Tormek stone to help with sharpening turning tools, as opposed to flat blades like chisels and plane blades. One disadvantage of putting on a second stone is that you would have to reset your jig settings, unless you are lucky enough to wear out the two stones at the same rate.

For plane blades and chisels, I might think more about using a 4000 stone on a Tormek, but in my shop I use regular waterstones for sharpening those tools, and I go 1000-5000-8000. I also have a Tormek, but it's pretty much used just for turning tools, and I haven't found the need for an intermediate step between the regular Tormek stone and the leather wheel. I do use the stone grader to bring the stone up to the 1000 grit stage, but then I go straight to the leather wheel.

The reason I'm making this distinction is that my experience has been that you don't need the same degree of sharpness for a turning tool that you would want for a chisel or plane blade. I think that's why that although there is a large jump in grit size between the Tormek stone and the leather wheel, you can go from the regular Tormek wheel to the leather wheel without an intermediate step, and why many turners go from a grinding wheel, which is pretty coarse, straight to the lathe.

My own crazy little theory is that the speed at which the wood on a lathe contacts the cutting edge of the turning tools, even at low RPMs, makes the degree of sharpness less critical.

Suppose you are turning a small bowl, about 4" in diameter. If you did your finish turning on a Jet mini lathe at a medium speed (1450 rpm), then the circumference of the bowl is 4 times pi, or about 12 1/2". At 1450 rpm, the outside of the top would be zipping along at about 17 MPH. But of course you can go faster on the Jet mini lathe. The next higher speed, 2130 rpm takes that speed up to 25 MPH. The next speed at 2400 rpm is 28 MPH, and the top speed of 3950 rpm works out to be 47 MPH.

On the other hand, if I am planing a piece of wood about 12" long, and it takes me about 1 second to complete the stroke, my plane is chugging along at a mighty 0.68 MPH.

This means that even at medium speeds the effective speed of a turning tool is close to 25 times faster than the speed of a hand plane, and is probably why you don't need to keep a turning tool as sharp as a paring chisel.

One other way to look at this is that at 1450 rpm, working backwards from 0.68 MPH, you would have to get to within 0.08" of the center before the velocity of the turned object relative to a turning gouge would be as slow as a hand plane.

[Randy Klein]

You're posting this in the Turning forum,

Whoops, I thought I posted in Neanderthal. Those darn electrons are messing with me again...

How can I switch forums, not that I have anything wrong with turners. But I'm already sliding down the slippery slope, and I can't get sucked into this vortex too. Is that possible to have both happen?

[TYLER WOOD]

I was thinking why the heck do you want your tuning tools leather stropped? OVERKILL! I'm with Denis on this for turning, 80-120 is sufficient for most turning applications. I actually use a 60 grit just cause it's what was given to me and I'm too cheap to buy a new wheel untill absolutely necessary. Like when I finally learn how to sharpenn my tools. HMMMMM maybe the wrong grit has something to do with it??

[Dennis Peacock]

I think in asking 100 woodworkers that question you will at least get 150 different answers. :D

Tony

Oh how true Tony.....how true. ;)

[Dennis Peacock]

Dennis,

You mention using this with turning tools. I'm interested in it for plane and chisel irons. Especially Jet's cambering jig they have that will work on it.

Do you use this for plane irons or chisels as well? And is it sharp enough for you for those tools?

Randy,

I use my Tormek primarily for plane irons and chisels. I primarily use a grinder and jig setup for my turning tools.

Now...let's set "turning" down for just a minute. I can get a very nice edge on my plane irons and for sure on my chisels off the Tormek, 220 grit, grade to 1000 grit, sharpen some more, then kit the leather strop on the Tormek with the supplied compound. I can get a nice edge off of it and while it's not Steve Knight sharp? It's plenty sharp for me and my shop. :D

[Dennis Peacock]

Thread now moved to Neanderville. ;)

[Eddie Darby]

I have the Tormek 2000 and the 4,000x Japanese stone. I use it for my gouges specifically, but others tools seem to get used on it as well.

The jump from 1,000x or 16 microns to the 3 micron paste is too big for my liking, and so I got the 4,000x stone.

I think that if you get the same knob that is on the leather wheel side, and use it on the stone side, then you can have a quick change tool less system.

[Randy Klein]

I think that if you get the same knob that is on the leather wheel side, and use it on the stone side, then you can have a quick change tool less system.

I was thinking a wing nut may do, but that may be better.

[Eddie Darby]

part # 50 cost $4.50. Locking Knob

http://www.sharptoolsusa.com/parts.php?product=SG-2000&diagram=1109729672_SG-2000.jpg&product_name=TORMEK%202000