Setting up shop (more questions)

[Rob Horton]

Now that I have my screen name correct (formerly ComputerGuyWoodworker), I can get right down to asking another question.

I'm looking to smooth and square boards using only hand planes (you guys convinced me of that in my previous post).

So now I could really use some advice on what types of planes I need to have on hand as my first starter planes.

Any ideas/advice/suggestions and comments are greatly appreciated.

Long live SawMillCreek!

Thanks,
Rob Horton

[Matthew Springer]

I think the best advice I got when I started down the slope was to get a really, really good bench.

You can get all kinds of planes and sharpen them to an atomic edge, but without a good bench, you're not going to get much done.

Neander style, with vises and stability and good light. I guess lots of people put them up against a wall, but I like to walk all the way around mine.

This is basically my current problem, lots of tools, but no bench or place to put bench. hmmm, I probably need more old, rusty planes, too, come to think of it.

-Matthew

[Alan Turner]

I certainly agree with Mathew's advice: a bench is a necessity. After that, you will need, let's see:

scrub plane
jack plane
jointer plane
low angle block plane
No. 9 iron miter (optional)
smoothing plane
winding sticks
long grain and cross-grain shooting boards

Those should be a good start.
But, it is a slippery slope, and a few more never hurts. Second but -- you can get by with fewer.
Alan

[Tyler Howell]

[QUOTE=Alan Turner]I certainly agree with Mathew's advice: a bench is a necessity. After that, you will need, let's see:

scrub plane
jack plane
jointer plane
low angle block plane
No. 9 iron miter (optional)
smoothing plane
winding sticks
long grain and cross-grain shooting boards

Alan,
Been wading in the Creek a while but new to the Neanderthal way. What are winding sticks:confused: Haven't come across them in my travels or catalogues for that matter.

Thanx in advance.

[Steven Wilson]

"I'm looking to smooth and square boards using only hand planes (you guys convinced me of that in my previous post)."

I'll assume that you are going to use a thickness planer to thickness your boards (after face jointing) so I would look at the following bench planes.

#4 and/or #4 1/2 set very fine for smoothing (an LN 4 1/2 w/ high angle frog is a killer smoother).
#3 set fine for smoothing smaller stock (optional)

#7 set fine for edge and face jointing
#6 set fine for edge and face jointing smaller stock/panels (optional) or set up medium to do slightly rougher work before using the #7.

#5 set medium for more aggresive stock removal

Others to consider are
5/8" or 1" shoulder plane for working shoulders of tenions and very fine trim work.

Lie Nielsen Low Angle smoothing plane which has an adjustable mouth and is very usefull for gnarly grain or when your other planes just aren't working.

Lie Nielsen or Lee Valley low angle adjustable mouth block plane. Great for lots of trimming and end grain work.

Of course you'll need to keep those blades sharp. I prefer to use Shapton stones.

[Alan Turner]

Tyler,
Winding sticks are just two very straight boards placed on the ends of the board being squared. Sight fom one to the other to see any twist. Once in a while you will see them for sale as antiques, poss. made of a tropical, with inlaid ivory on one. Other than that, I have never seen them for sale. Make you own. Some use mahogany, some plywood. Here is the google search "winding stick" which you will get some pix from.
Alan

[Sean Evoy]

Tyler,
Any two straight-edges will work as winding sticks. A buddy of mine uses two levels. I made mine out of some scrap plywood I had lying about. In the most recent edition of Pop woodworking (at least I think that's where I saw this) the author suggests painting one winding stick black to make it easier for the eye to detect when the two winding sticks are not in the same plane. I haven't tried this but it makes sense.

Rob,
As for planes, you will get lots of different answers. When I dimension lumber I use a scrub plane to thickness the board, a jack plane to take out the scrub plane marks, a jointer for edge jointing and getting rid of any high spots left over from the jack, a #4 for final surfacing, and a low-angle block plane for the end grain.

However, you could probably get by with fewer planes. The scrub is not really needed if you are not removing a lot of material, the low-angle block plane is nice but not vital for dimensioning, and the some people swear that their jack plane is just fine as a smoother.

[Tyler Howell]

Sean and Alan,
Thanks guys

[Rob Horton]

Wow, lots of great advice here at the ol' Creek. Thanks again!

Now I'm wondering how the cost of all these planes I need to get going compares with the cost of an electric planer. Any thoughts on that?

I only ask because I've priced hand planes at places like WoodCraft (http://www.woodcraft.com) and they can run almost $300 for a single hand plane. Ouch!

Thoughts?

[Alan Turner]

A luch box planer is less that a good new Lie Nielson, but the plane will last through many generations if cared for even modestly. You can go used as well, and this I would recommend as a start. But if you are going neander to save money, you won't if you get the common disease of tool addiction. It strikes quickly, without warning, and cannot be broken.

[Tom Stovell]

I only ask because I've priced hand planes at places like WoodCraft (http://www.woodcraft.com) and they can run almost $300 for a single hand plane. Ouch!

I think we're scaring him off...I know I'm a bit frightened by all this expensive information. If I were just starting out and wanted to square a board using only hand tools, I would get a nice older plane and see if it is something I really wanted to do. This would be a 4 or a 5. Those 'fraction' planes get pricey in a hurry. I'd hate to spend big bucks on planes only to find out that I'm really not interested in doing 'apprentice' work on a daily basis.

My advise is to start inexpensively. If the hand method is for you, then spend what ever you can afford to get the best planes possible. See if there is a woodworkers group that might let you practice some before you commit to handtools. Squaring stock is how the word 'work' got into woodworking in my mind.

I've been working wood for more than 30 years now and still haven't spent more than $150 for a bench plane. Most of mine are in the $40-60 range.

Good luck with your dimensioning.

Tom

[Wendell Wilkerson]

I certainly agree with Mathew's advice: a bench is a necessity. After that, you will need, let's see:

(snip)
long grain and cross-grain shooting boards

Alan

Ok Alan, you got me. I know in general what a shooting board is, but what is the difference between a long grain and a cross-grain shooting board.

Wendell

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Rob,

I am also just starting out. Read the plane book by Garret Hack. There have been others suggested on this forum as well. Learn to tune and sharpen it well. The rest will be a free fall the dark crevass of the hand tool world. ;)

There have been several good post here about tuning used planes.

The first see through shaving are great! Especially with a plane your have tuned yourself and know and understand how to set up. :D

Most importantly, Have fun! Work safe!

[Alan Turner]

A good pix of a long grain shooting board is on the HNT Gordon web site. http://www.hntgordon.com.au/jointinglongboards.htm
It is used for establishing a straight, 90 degree edge, after the two faces of the stock are flat and parallel. Mine is a bit different, but it is of no moment. The point is to register the side of the plane on the bench (which must be flat and strong) and to take light cuts with a longish plane, such as a no. 7. Then it can be finished with any smoother, including a No. 9 iron miter.

A cross grain shooting board is used to square a board’s end, especially important in drawer-making. A pix is again on the Gordon site – http://www.hntgordon.com.au/planingendgrain.htm – but again mine is a bit different.
Note that on both, the plane’s side must be below the stock by enough to cover the lateral margin of the plane, the strip between the sole and blade, about 1/4" or so.
To effectively shoot a board, the plane’s side must be a dead 90 to the side. Several years ago as I got into the neander stuff, I had a L-N 60 ½ low angle block plane where the sides were not square. A low angle plane is needed to shoot end grain. I called L-N and explained, and they said to send it back and they would square it. I did, and they did, no charge, and quick. Class company. The LA was probably 5 or more years old at the time, which I disclosed. Still, no problem.
The David Charlesworth books have drawings of shooting boards that are closer to mine. But, on the cross grain board, I inlaid a small strip of ebony for the lateral margin to run against since I thought it would not wear so fast. It has held up well. The stop must be a dead on 90 for this board to work well. I glued mine up, and it was out a drop, but careful work fo about 5 min. with a shoulder plane fixed that. When I am doing drawers, I use it to get the pure 90 that is needed. Charlesworth demonstrates how to use a playing card as a spacer to vary the angle slightly when shooting, and this is a trick that I use also on my cross cut sled. There are always a few cards laying there to make the slight adjustment that is sometimes needed to tighten a joint.
BTW, I do not want you to be put off at the cost of planes, which are quite expensive for the really good, new ones. Yard sales are a wonderful way to go, both for older planes and older chisels. Some of my planes are new, L-N 60 ½, rabbet block, No. 9 iron miter, No. 2 smoother; Lee Valley shoulder; HNT Gordon smoother; but the rest are old Stanley’s. A No. 4C and No. 7C Bedrock, and a No. 5 Bailey from the 50's. These several are always near the bench, but the others that get less use are a few steps further away. My scrub is an old woody with a very hard iron that I gave about $3 for at a yard sale.
Collecting the older ones are a nice way to spend an early Saturday morning.

[Sean Evoy]

Rob,
You hit the nail on the head; good hand tools can be expensive. But they are so nice to use compared to cheap, modern hand tools! And quiet. And reasonably safe. And if you think about it, you are going to have to shell out some dough for a half-way decent bench planer, learn to keep its knives sharp and adjusted, and it is unlikely that you will pass it on to your favourite grandchild.

For a lot of people on this list, the other really cool thing about traditional handtools is that you can often find a real gem at a flea market. You save some money, have a connection with the craftspeople of the past, and you get to take a small stand against our disposable society.

[Davy Barr]

You can buy winding sticks from Highland Hardware.
http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/product.asp?0=0&1=0&3=1009

[Mark Bergman]

Rob -

Consider one of these smoothing planes -

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?query=knight+toolworks+smoother&ht=1&sosortproperty=1&from=R10&BasicSearch=

or these -

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&dept_id=11844

or these -

http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/subcatmfgprod.asp?0=243&1=247&2=-1&6=1


All much less expensive than $300, and work well essentially out of the box. (After you sharpen the blade). I haven't used the E.C. Emmerich planes but I've heard only good things about them.

A portable planer will not give you the surface that a good smoothing plane will. Initally buy s4s lumber, and you won't need to worry about scrub, jack or other planes of that ilk - the lumber should be dimensioned well enough so that all you'll need to do is finish plane it with the smoother.

[Eric Sanford]

I have one of the ECE Primus smoothers (along with several Stanleys) and love it, but it is bedded at a slightly higher (50 deg) angle than the Stanleys, which can be good in many situations. The blade is nice and holds an edge well. It is lighter than the Stanley's and requires you to grip it differently.