Bedrock 606 gets a dose of hock and rocks!

[Jeffrey Larsen]

I have been working hard on my jointer blades--the one on the 7 I have is pretty abismal. the chip breaker on it is pretty flat. It is only a marginally useful item at the present time. The 606 I have looks awsome, but hasn't worked much better than the 7 although the chipbreaker is better. My #8 corrugated works really well, although it doesn't look much better.

So, thought I could use the same blade for the 606 and 7 and purchsed a hock blade today at woodcraft. Up til now, have only had a hock on one of my small stanleys--I placed the hock on the 606 and man does it work great!!! It is just as much of an improvement as replacing the blade on the block plane was.I didn't have time to sharpen it and as is, have tried it on maple, oak, and walnut and it works awsome!

Would a new chip breaker give much more performance boost over my current set-up? I think I will be using this plane and the number 8 for most of my jointing work when my cyber wood working becomes more of a reality...

The 3-4-5s seem to work pretty well with stock blades? I have been told that in that range, there isn't as much of a performance boost as with the ones I have mentioned.

Are there aftermarket chipbreakers for stanley spokeshaves? I have 2 stanleys--one curved and one flat--The both seem to cut great; However will ultimately work toward retrofitting with hock stuff if anyone thinks it would give much of a jump in performance?

Over and out, the greenhornWW, Jeff

[Dominic Greco]

Are there aftermarket chipbreakers for stanley spokeshaves? I have 2 stanleys--one curved and one flat--The both seem to cut great; However will ultimately work toward retrofitting with hock stuff if anyone thinks it would give much of a jump in performance?

Funny you should mention this Jeff. I was just reading an article from a FWW book on Handplanes (Working with Handplanes: New Best of Fine Woodworking) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561587486/102-5174592-1732145) where the author was writing about improving the performance of a spoke shave by MAKING a new chip breaker from brass stock. he wrote that the old chip breaker with it's rounded front caused the shavings to clog.

BTW, I also just replace the blade I had in my No7 with an aftermarket one. I bought a Lee Valley blade and was also AMAZED at the difference.

And as far as your question about an after market chip breaker improving the performance of a plane, I would say "Yes, I believe it will". From what I understand, the thicker chip breakers will help to make the blade stiffer and reduce chatter.

From my searches on the internet and from some advice here, I found a site that sells Hock Blades and Chip breakers at a "discount". However, I don't have it with me at work. when I get home I 'll post the link.

[Ken Werner]

Dominic, do you mean here?

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/H!BENCH.htm

I've bought from them and have been very happy. Great prices AND great service.

BTW, replacement blades for planes are as addictive as the planes themselves...down the slope we go.

Ken

[Dominic Greco]

Dominic, do you mean here?

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/H!BENCH.htm

I've bought from them and have been very happy. Great prices AND great service.

BTW, replacement blades for planes are as addictive as the planes themselves...down the slope we go.

Ken

Yup Ken, that's them! thanks for posting this. I just added it to my book marks here at work.:D

[Bob Smalser]

...my jointer blades--the one on the 7 I have is pretty abismal.

...I placed the hock on the 606 and man does it work great!!! It is just as much of an improvement as replacing the blade on the block plane was

...Would a new chip breaker give much more performance boost over my current set-up?

I like Hock blades too, and have several, including one with his chip breaker. I like them because they are top-quality carbon steel and come so dead flat and well-honed I can use them right out of the box.

But I don't notice any real difference between my Hocked planes and my equivalent Stanley planes on either hardwoods or softwoods....yet I'm sensitive enough to notice the difference between an A2 blade and a freshly-honed carbon blade. Why? The reason is my soles and iron backs are dead flat, done using indexing dye on the jointer table, and the chip breakers are honed flat every single time I hone its iron.

Jointers can be especially bad, solewise, and if replacing the stock iron with a Hock alone is a quantum improvement, then consider your old iron perhaps wasn't as flat or sharp as it could have been.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/263582393.jpg

But on jointers, it's usually the sole. Flattening an old, warped cast-iron jointer can be impossible without ruining the mouth by widening it (that's why I've gone back to woodies in my long planes), but the only areas that have to be in the same plane within close tolerances are the ones shown. Just the toe, both ends of the mouth and heel need to be in the same plane to do fine work, and the mouth tight and just open enough to pass and clear the thickness of the shavings you typically take with that plane.

Most of the chattering and balky performance woodworkers complain about in Stanley, Record and Anant planes isn’t because the iron is inferior or too thin, but because the sole isn’t flat – the critical area behind the mouth is in a hollow and is unsupported by the work piece. With downward hand pressure, the front of the mouth holds down the wood fibers while the back of the mouth pins the blade and chipbreaker against the lever cap to stabilize the cutting edge. If one or both ends of the mouth are unsupported, the result is like trying to cut loose ribbons with tin snips.

Spoke shaves are merely hand planes with shorter soles, and the same guidelines pretty much apply. If a new iron or chipbreaker alone is a major improvement in a well-designed shave like the #151, then something else may be wrong. Part of these quests for improvement may also be the user. Spoke shaves require the same pressure transfer from the front of the mouth to the back of the mouth hand planes do. Only that's a lot harder to do well with a tool with a sole only an inch long as opposed to a tool with a sole 7 inches and more long, and it takes practice "rolling" the tool.

[Ken Werner]

So, Bob, are you saying you prefer a Hock high carbon to an A2? I've read that the high carbon blades have a finer grain and can attain a finer edge, and would like to hear your take. Thus far all my replacement blades have been A2.

[Bob Smalser]

So, Bob, are you saying you prefer a Hock high carbon to an A2? I've read that the high carbon blades have a finer grain and can attain a finer edge, and would like to hear your take. Thus far all my replacement blades have been A2.


I'm no metallurgist, I just find I don't get as good an edge on A2 when hand-honed as I do with carbon. Even older Stanley carbon. (the new Stanley replacement irons have enuf chrome and vanadium in them to be gummy) It's not a big difference and after a couple hours of dulling both, the difference largely disappears.

I do better on A2 when I use the 1000-grit wheel of my waterbath planer blade sharpener followed by hard and black novaculite stones, but I can't go lugging the Makita around to remote sites like I can stones. The hollow grind and softness of the L/N A2 irons surprised me with how fast they'd wear out if I power sharpened them routinely like so many do.

After using both for several months, the only advantage I see of tougher A2 is when planing ugly stock like plywood edges, hard tropicals and extremely dry wood like oak flooring stock. Now, that's a big deal to a builder of plywood kayaks, many finish carpenters or someone who uses one plane so long he'd lose shop hours stopping to sharpen, but not for me. I generally work air-dried wood, and good user Stanleys are still so relatively cheap, I can afford to take two of them to just about any job...one set coarse, the other fine...no fiddling with them, and never run out of sharp.

But the best tools I've ever seen for edgeholding weren't A2, they were hand-forged carbon as found in many old laminated woodie irons and done today by Barr Tools and high-end Japanese makers.