Have you checked your S4S lately?

[Todd Burch]

I cut these rails and stiles out this evening for 4 doors.

You can't tell from the picture, but the 8 pieces on the left are 22" long and the 9 pieces on the right are 9" long - this point being that the 8 on the right are all from the same 8' board, first ripped at 2 5/16" then crosscut from one end, one after the other.

As they were coming off the saw, I just stacked them up. When done, I placed both stacks next to each other and noticed that something was wrong.

Can you tell the problem? That's a lot of deviation for only 2 5/16" width stacked 8 pieces high. I've wrapped them up to take them back to my supplier in the morning.

[Keith Outten]

Todd,

Seems to me that your supplier has a problem with his planer, the blades aren't parallel to the bed. If one side of the blades were worn that bad the surface quality of the lumber would have shown a noticeable degrade.

The boards were obviously surfaced at different times or not by the same machine. I'm with you, I would definitely return the lumber to your supplier. Thanks for the reminder to check material dimensions often.

[John Miliunas]

Gee, my old Ryobi lunchbox planer did a better job than that! You bet, Todd. Take them thangs back. NOT acceptable! :cool:

[Jim Becker]

Despite the time savings necessary when you are in business and need to turn out work quickly, there is something to be said for milling your own...you have the opportunity to make it even worse. :D

However...slap your supplier upside his head about this! It's not just the bad material, but the time you have to make up for recutting the parts. I owes you!

[Byron Trantham]

Todd, what's the problem man? A couple Bessey clamps, epoxy and few lead bricks should slove the problem nicely! :D :D :D

[Todd Burch]

I called my supplier this morning. He has never heard of this type of problem before. He said he would gladly replace the material. We also discussed what I should be buying for face frames and door frames. I asked about S2S 13/16". He commented that that would certainly be cheaper than S4S since I would be ripping it up anyway. So, that's what I'll order from now on.

One more item checked off on that never ending list of establishing a working business process.

[Bob Lasley]

Todd,

I seldom ever buy S4S as it seems like it is seldom ever truly flat and straight. If I am going to have to joint and plane it anyway, I would just as soon have all the wood I can to work with. I do buy some stock that is skip planed and straight line ripped on one side. My preference is for rough sawn though.

Bob

[Mike Cutler]

Todd . While I don't do this for a living, as do you, I agree that would be upsetting. The problem I've been seeing is 4/4- S4S that is micing out to less than .750. I've found it as far off as .690 and not of uniform thickness. This has gotten me a few times in the past, I even take a vernier along with me now if I'm going to be buying finished wood. I've reached the same conclusion as Bob though. I'll start with it rough and plane it down to thickness myself. It's harder and more time consuming. but at least I know what I'm starting with. On a positive note, it sounds as if your suppiler is an honest and reputable one.

[Alan Turner]

Todd,
I have not bought surfaced wood in ages, and won't. My work is one off stuff, and rarely 3/4". Even if s4s is accurately planed, and to the correct thickness, it may well have moved after the planing, either in the supplier's yard, or in your shop, and by that time there is not enough wood left to fix the problem. You new toys should make dimensioning rough stock a piece of cake!
Also, I know that at HD, one of my adult evening students bought s4s poplar, and was paying about 7.50 b.f., whereas I pay 1.80 for 4/4 poplar in the rough, and it is a full 4/4 and will finish to at least 13/16 if not 7/8.
Richard Jones, a prof. and teacher and author that posts on Knots, says he figures about 15 b.f. an hour as a labor charge for dimensioning from rough stock. If you do the math, and your shop rate is say about $40/hr., you may be ahead of the game money wise to dimension it yourself since the price difference will cover most of the labor. I am guessing you are paying about 3.50 b/f/ for s4s poplar. That is about $25/hr as a spread, but you will likely spend much less time on the joinery, etc., by starting out with wood that you already understand, and that is flat and straight and square. Plus the fact that the work is satisfying, and the balance of the work is far more pleasurable.
Just a thought. However, that said, nice that your supplier is going to cooperate.
Alan

[John Preston]

After experiencing the same thing myself, I bought my own planer. Now I have no one to blame but myself.

for big bunches of wood, hit and miss 15/16 and straightlined is as low as I would want to go. Only slightly less usable area than rough, and a fair amount less work.

I've had bad experience with 13/16 I made. The danged stuff cupped while on the shelf, I planed it later, and a bunch of it came out under thickness. Arrg. Live an learn.

[Todd Burch]

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.

Mike, good idea on the caliper. What I typically do when I don't have a caliper handy, and I'm looking to accurately measure for 3/4" (hard to do with a retractable tape), is I stack 3 or 4 boards together and measure the lot. If for 4 boards I get 3", then I know they are pretty much right on, especially since errors in thickness will compound. I didn't with this lot though, but I'm glad I caught it prior to coping and sticking.

Alan, I personally know Richard Jones. I shared a shop with him for a while. He moved back to the UK last fall to teach. I learned a lot from him. I usually don't calculate my estimated hours for a project to that level of detail - maybe I should... I will usually estimate a job by the number of days I expect a project to take, plus supplies, plus room for errors. However, the calculation is a good one, and while it seems that I could dress a whole lot more lumber than 15 bf in 1 hour, I'm sure that takes into account a measurement over time that involves machine maintenance and all the other ancillary tasks involved in dressing wood.

For S4S, 1X6 poplar, I pay $1.25 linear/foot, or, $10 for an 8' board. A 1X8 is $1.75/lf. My supplier moves a lot of wood, and it doesn't sit too long. I hand pick each piece too. Face frame stock can be a little wavy, but stock for door parts have to be flat and knot/defect free with no wild grain.

For paint grade projects, with poplar, I'm going to give the S2S 13/16" a try for a while. I'll just have to call ahead so it will be ready when I get there.

Todd

[Don Henthorn Smithville, TX]

Now that is really pitiful. Someone had his mind on other things when he was setting up for that thicknessing job. Your supplier ought to give you time and labor for the returning of that material.