Your response?

[Tyler Purcell]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to know exactly what you guys feel about this subject. Today, I was working in the shop with my father. I'm only a highschool student, but I've always loved woodworking and my father has a little bit of background and family history in the hobby as well, so he decided it would be a great time for him to get a real hobby again. So, we outfitted our garage with a pretty much fully equipped shop - table saw, bandsaw, jointer, planer, router, router table, etc. He doesn't get a whole lot of time so most of the time spent in the shop has been mine, making furniture etc.

I have always believed in safety first, and I cringe at the idea of making a freehand cut on a table saw and even a circular saw. Today, I thought my father was joking, but he was 100% serious when he approached the saw and made a freehand cut in a piece of MDF. Sure, it was a small cut, but to me it doesn't matter - the danger in such a thing is way too high. When I confronted him about it and seriously told him that it was very dangerous and should never be done, he scoffed at me and said that people do it all the time and that its totally fine.

Anyways - heres the bottom line: I asked him what an experienced woodworker (like many of you) would say if you asked them what they thought about freehanding on a table saw. He told me they would say its fine and plenty safe. I told him I begged to differ. What's your take on the subject?

Thanks guys!

[David Duke]

This was pretty much beat to death in this thread.......... http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=61603

[Don Bullock]

Here's a thread on that very subject:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=61603

I see that David beat me to it.;) :D

[Tyler Purcell]

I know, I attempted to show him that thread. I'm pretty dead set that this is the wrong thing to do, I would just like to know a good way to go about convincing my father to listen to me here.

[Jim Becker]

Bottom line, Tyler..."you" don't do it. You know it can be unsafe. You know you're not comfortable with it. Never do anything you're not comfortable with...those "warning bells" are more often real than hooey... ;)

And also know that it's often hard to convince some folks of such things, despite your best intentions. You are not personally responsible for them! Only you.

And I'm glad to see you're in the neighborhood, too! (I meant to mention that earlier today)

[Rob Will]

Usually, it is a bad thing to do. But if the piece is big enough to control, and fingers are well away from the blade, you can get by with it.

My personal experience with table saws has been that most kickbacks occur when something gets pinched between the blade and the fence. The back of the blade picks it up and throws it at you. A good splitter is a must.

Keep up the good work with saftey. You should always be a little scared of power tools, especially the table saw.

Rob

[Per Swenson]

Ah,

Fathers and sons can be tough.

I still have both.

I mean how can 65 something years separate them

and both still know it all?

Me, I use visuals.

Google images for bloody stumps, print and tape next to the on switch.

I also swear I won't pay 'em.

I explain it as the aggravation tax.

Common sense sez if 10 people say you look like a horse...
its a safe bet that its time to buy a saddle.

Per

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Father-son relationships can be tough to deal with Tyler! Some of us are just arrogant enough to think we know it all and are always right! But the truth is......lean closer.....I don't want anyone else to hear this....we're human.....we really didn't earn that big "S" on our chest and we really aren't SUPERMAN. Thus we can be wrong.....I'm speaking louder now....I'd lightly, one time mention this and let it go. Make sure that you don't do it and if your Dad asks why....very lightly tell him it's for safety reasons but don't push it. Nothing good can come from a direct frontal confrontation.

Keep working safely and enjoy the time with your Dad! Father/son projects.....the memories can last 2 lifetimes!

[Bart Leetch]

Just tell I said that I hope his son is there to help patch him up or get him help when it happens because with that attitude it going to happen its just a matter of time.

Also stand clear when ever he operates a tool.

Tools & fools don't mix well.

[David DeCristoforo]

My son started working in the shop when he was 14 and we worked together for close on to 16 years (he is also a painter and recently moved to LA to try and connect with the gallery scene there). I can't count the number of times he gave me "that look". He kept me under control because I wanted to set a good example (something that, sometimes, does not seem to come naturally for me). So go ahead and tell the old man what you think. You might save him an accident. At worst, he will shoot you a dirty look. The important thing is that you are spending time together in a way that, these days, most fathers and sons never get a chance to enjoy. You don't have to agree on everything and if he is smart, he will learn as much from you as you learn from him.

PS Did you guys notice how I cleverly avoided saying anything about freehand cutting on the table saw?

[Andrew Williams]

Nothing worth doing is not worth doing well. Take the time, and set up your tools properly. Proper setup involves a fence or miter gauge or sled, sometimes even featherboards. All you will ever learn by cutting corners and being hasty is how to do half of a job.

You only have one life to live. Why spend it worrying about finishing quickly? Enjoy your woodworking and let it take time. Plus you may just save your hands.

[scott spencer]

I agree with you Tyler, but I doubt you'll have alot of success in changing your Dad's habits...doesn't mean you shouldn't keep trying when you know he's doing something unsafe though.

The issue that struck me is how proud your Dad should be of you. What a breath of fresh air it'd be for most father's to have their sons be responsible and concerned enough to intervene. Keep it up!

[Art Mulder]

When I confronted him about it and seriously told him that it was very dangerous and should never be done, he scoffed at me and said that people do it all the time and that its totally fine.


I'll wager that he is right that people do it all the time.
But I just can't agree with the second part of his sentence.

But having read threads here and elsewhere, I can see that some people just disagree about the safety of it.

Is your dad the type of person who would listen to an independent authority? If so, you might see if your library has a copy of Kelly Mehler's tablesaw book (http://www.amazon.com/Table-Saw-Book-Completely-Revised/dp/1561584266/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-4587949-2195668?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185015893&sr=8-1). Kelly is a well known woodworker and teacher, and authority on the subject of table saws. He is also an advocate for safety.

Here's one more thing... when I read about freehanding, it seems to me that it is usually housing/building contractors (or similar tradesmen) cited as an example of a professional woodworker who does this sort of thing. Yet remember that those people generally are working on a fairly light table saw - a contractor's saw at the largest. And those saws are going to have a lighter motor. When something binds on a motor like that, it will likely stall the motor. (I used to have an older contractor saw with a 3/4-1HP motor, and many times with that crappy old fence I would be feeding some plywood which would bind and the motor would hum and freeze, and I'd have to fumble for the off-switch while holding the stock in place. However, on a cabinet saw, with a big beefy 3-5HP motor I am quite sure that something different would happen -- the motor is not going to stall, rather it is going to fling your piece across the room in the blink of an eye.

All this to say... while I think freehanding is dangerous no matter the machine. I would guess that it is more dangerous on the bigger and more powerful table saws. (cabinet and up)

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

My take is that you should work in a manner that comports with your comfort level and experience.

Then let the old man alone. He's got his own style and trying to change it could do more harm than good.

Besides people rarely change things they've done for a long time based on the ideas of others. They need to have their own ideas change first. You won't likely do that by nagging him. Ask my daughter.