Help Can I fix this (Clifton 3110)

[Graham Skinner]

Hi All.

Just wondering how I should go about cleaning up this shoulder plane, how long will it take, and in your exp will I be able to get it working like it was new, or should I just go to LV and buy a new one?
I have not purchased the clifton 3110 plane yet, and I have no idea how much I should pay for a plane in this condition.

[Clint Jones]

You should be able to clean it up to good working shape. It may not look new but it will work good. If you dont get it I have heard nothing but good about the LV medium shoulder plane. Also if you decide to go the new route let me know I would be interested in the Clifton I still am using a Stanley 94.

[Bob Smalser]

Hi All.

Just wondering how I should go about cleaning up this shoulder plane, how long will it take, and in your exp will I be able to get it working like it was new, or should I just go to LV and buy a new one?
I have not purchased the clifton 3110 plane yet, and I have no idea how much I should pay for a plane in this condition.

I'd pay 80-90 bucks for it if I was looking for that brand of shoulder plane. And rather that than twice as much for new. Providing all that's wrong with it is rust. Be thorough about looking for cracks and stripped screws.

Blade's got some wear, but ought to last you decades in a home shop. Otherwise there's nothing a soft wire wheel and green rouge buff won't fix. You'll lose some plating, and if it's nickle, a coarse wire wheel will take it all off if you like. When the blade does wear out fast using a power sharpener, Hock Tools will make you a new one using yours as a pattern.

I prefer soaking them in phosphoric acid overnight to deal with the rust in all the recesses you can't reach, but my tools are used outdoors and that's your choice. Do blue the sole and test it for flat once you get the plane clean and assembled. I have a block plane article here somewhere that has all the small details of rust removal and tuning small planes.

Assuming the sole is fairly flat, I could get that plane in service in around 30 minutes of work. 45+ if the sole needs much work. 60+ if I brushed off all the plating then buffed and blued it.

[Ray Sheley]

This may help your decision, a "like new" (it appeared to be so.) Clifton 3110 recently sold for $171 + shipping on the 'bay. Record also made a version of this plane, as did at least one other. Folks on the woodsites that have them and have used them seem to like them.
The sample you showed looked worth the effort to salvage it, though heed Mr. Smalser's advice and look it over carefully.

[Ryan Cathey]

There's a guy over at woodnet that machines planes so their sides are 90 degrees to their soles. I don't know if he does planes this small but I could help you get in touch with him if you'd like.

[Andrew Homan]

60+ if I brushed off all the plating then buffed and blued it.

There is no plating on a Clifton.
And I'm not sure where the 80-90 bucks is coming from. If this plane is restorable to working condition without further cost, it should be worth more than that. The comparable Records (also corroded or cruddy or whatever) on eBay sell for at least $170-180.

[Bob Smalser]

There is no plating on a Clifton.
And I'm not sure where the 80-90 bucks is coming from. If this plane is restorable to working condition without further cost, it should be worth more than that. The comparable Records (also corroded or cruddy or whatever) on eBay sell for at least $170-180.

The 90 bucks comes from what I'd pay for it. For 180 bucks I recommend Graham buy a L/V and not fuss with sole flattening, side machining, a new iron or bluing.

The Cliftons I've seen are closer to Record's better days in quality than Lie Nielsen's current ones, and this one has been abused. There's nothing magic about them because they are English. And the L/V may not have that classic (but nonfunctional) British look of the L/N but it works just as well. And not two days ago folks here who know were recommending the Preston clones work better pulled than pushed. It's important for a shoulder plane to work in both directions.

[Phil Clark]

I use the Clifton 3110 frequently in making my Arts &
crafts furniture. It is a terrific plane. If you can get it for $90 go for it.

[Andrew Homan]

There's nothing magic about them because they are English.

Is that sentence in response to something someone wrote, or is it just a random rant?



And the L/V may not have that classic (but nonfunctional) British look of the L/N but it works just as well.

??? I guess we should just take your word for it. Again, it seems like a random statement in a thread about a Clifton.



It's important for a shoulder plane to work in both directions.

Nice to know that you think so, Bob. My LN large shoulder plane does work great in both directions. I'm pleased to hear that you think that it is "important" for it to do so.
-Andy

[Bob Smalser]

Prestons, Preston clones, the various infills, Stanley's, L/V's. Simple tools, really. Chisels in glorified jigs, all of them.

They all work well, or can easily be made to. Even the Stanleys. They all are made of good materials. The difference is largely ergonomics and price...the rest is hype.

If that rusty Clifton with the stubby iron will go for $180, rest assured it will remain at the very bottom of my recommendations. ;) Especially for someone living on a teacher's pay.

[Andrew Homan]

The difference is largely ergonomics and price...the rest is hype.

A very strong opinion that is backed up by... nothing! Giving back the old meaning to Schmalzer?



If that rusty Clifton with the stubby iron will go for $180 [...]

Oh, I doubt that it will go for that much. But since it's about $50-$70 less than it can be found new, I think that $180 would be a steal for someone who has their heart set on one of these. I'm guessing that the hurricane treatment is going to scare those who don't know that it will work fine, and it will go for much less.
By the way, as far as time spent flattening the sole, according to David Charlesworth, who does tend to back up his statements, ALL shoulder planes, even new LV and LN shoulder planes, need to have their soles flattened once a working tension has been established.
And the iron isn't stubby -- par for the course for these planes.
-Andy

[Bob Smalser]

A very strong opinion that is backed up by... nothing! Giving back the old meaning to Schmalzer?




Cheese or lard you wondering? ;) Depends on where in Alemannia and Helvetia one's ancestors came from. The root family is the Allemanni Schmalz im Meiringen along the Aar and Emmen valleys, and the Anabaptist offshoots Schmalzried in the Biberach marches, Schmalzhaffen near the Obertsrot harbor on the Rhine, later Schmalzhaf in several kreis and other countries...and much, much later Smalser. Personally, I'd rather my Great, Great Uncle and Great Grandfather left it original. Easier to spell.

Oh, I've been doing this since at least last week. Got paid, too. Even wrote an article once. Maybe two. I'll have do one on a trashed Clifton like this one and make your day. Especially if it ties for second place with a 15-dollar Stanley like the L/N block planes did.

Get the sole and iron back flat, and if the plane is well designed, made of good materials, and the iron well-bedded, well-mouthed and sharp, one plane will work as well as any other of similar design. Those are the high school physics of it, there are no more complications. The rest are ergonomics and personal preference. Unless of course you count the strange mysticism that seems to go along with prestige makes. When your mind thinks of Norris and Spiers, mine only partly agrees and also thinks of Record and even Lucas, Prince of Darkness. ;)

[Andrew Homan]

Cheese or lard you wondering?


Your research still hasn't turned up the _other_ meaning of this. A German speaker will understand the double meaning of "Schmalz" in a moment -- schoolbook knowledge won't take you to it.
-Andy
P.S. For what it's worth, I think that it's the tool comparison tests that have the strange mysticism attached to them -- what is important to one person isn't crucial to another. More importantly, the way you intimate the results of a future shoulder plane test reveals very clearly how unscientific the approach can be when the results are a forgone conclusion based on the strong opinion of the tester!!! And by the way, I have no attachment to Norris or Spiers; I think a contemporary production plane built for users, like the LV, Clifton, or LN is the way to go. In the US, a new Clifton is a stretch simply because of the exchange rate, so if someone can pay $50-70 less for this rusty one, good on them for putting in the elbow grease toward fixing it up and getting it working again.

[Ken Werner]

Andy, I've been reading this thread and I think you're being unnecessarily rude to Bob.

Ken

[Graham Skinner]

Hi again.

I just wanted to say thank you, for all the advice you gave about buying this shoulder plane.
I have decided to take Bob's advice and buy the L.V medium shoulder plane, because I do not think I will have the time to fix the clifton up.

Thanks again...Graham Skinner....

[Pete Bradley]

I'm becoming a fan of electrolysis for cleaning up tools like this. It still takes some elbow grease to finish, but the results are excellent. To my mind, there's less mess and hassle than with phosphoric acid products. There are lots of articles on the web that will get you started.

The prices that tools achieve on eBay are frequently well beyond what I would pay, or do pay, for comparables. It speaks well for eBay that even unremarkable tools can achieve remarkable prices, but I'd take those prices with a grain of salt in making your personal decision. Offer what it's worth to you, and be comfortable sticking to that. No matter what happens, you'll have done the right thing.

Pete

[Ryan Cathey]

Amen Ken. (this parenthetical is only to make this post long enough to be posted; please ignore it)

[Bart Leetch]

All I have to say is the tool either cleans up & sharpens up well & works or it doesn't no matter who made the tool.

Todays LN & LV will be tomorrows Clifton & Stanleys after we're not here to see it happen. Then some person will have rude comments about someone else with plenty of practical experience recommendations about which LN or LV to buy & how to make them work properly again.

Isn't it interesting how old hand tools respond favorably when restored & used by experienced hands. At least in the shop 'they' are not rude & can be enjoyed.

[Richard Niemiec]

To Graham: I just broke down and bought the LV medium, got it last week, and it is excellent in all respects. You won't be disappointed and based on my experience with it so far, it was a great choice for me.

To Everyone else: What Ken said.

To Bob: You are a knowledgeable and gracious man willing to share your experience. Thank you.

RN

[James Mittlefehldt]

Graham welcome to the sight form sunny St. Thomas, (has hardly rained all summer) I was just curious, what was the asking price for that Clfton.

PersonallyI am not a tool maker as such and if faced with that thing unless it was a bargain price, ie real cheap, I would let it go. For example I recently purchsed a Stanley type 11 no 5 for $12, the antique store owner wanted $15 but when I hesitated he dropped it to $12. now it seems I have three no 5's and only really need one, how did that happen?

Having said that there are a lot of fellas who love getting an old tool and fixing it up, and getting a lot of satisfaction in doing so, more power to em, and I suspect that in itself is perhaps an even more slippery slope.My take on it, hardly definitive but there you are.

By the way my name is an archaic low German spelling, seems my great grandfather insisted on keeping that spelling despite the best efforts of all and sundry to simplfy it. In Germany today it would not be spelled that way but in North America it is.

Also another vote for what Ken said.

[Richard Niemiec]

James: It went for $102 plus shipping on that famous online auction site, if you search completed auctions and "clifton" it will show up. Enjoy the lack of rain, they say the tropical storm season this year will give you plenty. regards.rn

[Graham Skinner]

Hi Jame's

To be honest, the clifton plane was for sale on E-Bay and the auction finnished last night.
It sold for $104.00 which was way to much for me to pay for a plane that needed so much treatment to get back in to tip-top shape,( I think that there was a couple of pieces missing as well).
Also the seller wanted $19.50 shipping, plus I would have had to run the risk of it getting stuck in Canada customs and having to pay duty on it.
So I will be spending a little more cash, and getting a LV as soon as I can. :) (if I can get the wife will agree to it, that is;) ).

Thanks for all the replys Guys...Graham Skinner...

[Ken Werner]

Graham, I have the LV medium shoulder plane. I love it. You won't go wrong buying it. Explain to your honey how much more you'll be able to make for her once you have it.

Ken

[Graham Skinner]

Hey Ken

Honey says "That I must be bluddy joking:eek: , coz I just bought a bandsaw and drill press last month, and it's about time that I made something with all the tools I keep buying":D

I will have to ask her again in a couple of weeks time, when the smoke has cleared ;).

Thanks...Graham Skinner....

[Bruce Haugen]

Graham,
sorry to be critical, but your approach is all wrong!! What you need to do now is to use the bandsaw to cut some tenons, and show her how the fit isn't just right, and gee, sweetie, they would fit just perfectly if you only had that shoulder plane. And then schedule a bunch of work that is nothing but tenons for the foreseeable future.:D

Bruce, btdt, got the t-shirt.

[Dusty Fuller]

But don't pay more that what you think is reasonable. If it seems like too much, it probably is, and you can wait. Or at least I can, most of the time. I've got a few good old woodies, two of them 25"+, that I got for less than $10 a piece. Its nice to find a decent deal.