Color with the Laser

[Mike Null]

The topic of laser engraving to produce full color images has been cussed and discussed previously on this forum. The company spokeman wasn't ready to divulge much information that many of those interested wanted to know. That caused some consternation and some harsh words to be spoken.

I had the opportunity yesterday to discuss the process with one of the partners, Paul Harrison, who happens to be the founder of Thermark.

He was quite candid in his responses to my questions and advised me that Atomic Art and Thermark had formed a joint venture to market the process. I don't think that's news but they have a new web site which does a pretty good job of explaining the process. If you're interested you can read more at http://www.permanentimpressions.com/.

I have no financial interest in this company nor will I be a licensee. Just trying to pass along some information.

[James Stokes]

I just read the license agreement, There is no way in hell I would sign something like that.

[Craig Hogarth]

I've seen a lot of people not want to spend the money to get something as useful as photograv. I can't see too many forking out $5500 in order to just do color tiles.

[Joe Pelonio]

I just read the license agreement, There is no way in hell I would sign something like that.
I have to agree. I've seen some products done with it for sale at a show, and I can't see making enough profit on them to pay for the system plus a full time employee just to handle the licensing agreement requirements.

[Rodne Gold]

I can't for the life of me see this as viable , 70 minutes a sq ft + consumables at $30 a sq ft + 1 or 2 licences at $5k to amortise?
That comes to a real cost of round $150- 200 a sq ft!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What would the selling price be , $3-400 a sq ft? Who will pay that , certainly no one in my neck of the woods.
The process itself is fraught , imho , with possibilites to make a right royal mess , 4x spraying , 4 x re registering arrrggh......imagine if something goes wrong on the last pass.
And the success story!!!!!!!!!! What success was that - did David actually make money out the process or did he just see it?? Why is he involved in the testimonials anyway? That it works and is durable is no success story. Who has actually made money out of this barring the inventors?
And the agreement - well...........

I would never in a million years even consider buying into any venture like this. Good luck to anyone that does.

[Garry McKinney]

I must say I have been watching this for a whiile , but that contract is well to say the least, more than unique.

Your paying 5500.00 to buy a partner, your listing all sells , all customers and giving them the right to audit your books. I have enough issues , I don't need more headaches.

[George M. Perzel]

Hi Gang;
I, like many others, have been watching this "technology" unfold and am now more convinced than ever that the opportunities to make money with this is extremely limited or non-existent (for all the reasons Rodne stated) and more. I would love to hear from someone who can prove they have sold something using this "technology" and made money- anyone out there???
Best regards;
George
LaserArts

[Mike Hood]

I can dye sub at 9600 for much less cash outlay than that. That's really all they've done is manage to sublimate using the laser as a fancy heat source. The resolution has to be less than a budget dye sub package.

Anybody else on here doing sublimation in conjunction with their laser business?

[Rodne Gold]

Well , I dont do sublimation but at one time , when the machine worked , we offered full colour printing onto any surface that was less then 10cm thick. (direct printing via a Busjet)
Currently we use a Roland Soljet print and cut machine that works on all manner of materials and often combine its output with lasered items. We do a huge amount of doming so often print on vinyl , dome it (we use a flexible dome) and put it on curved or flat surfaces or on awards.

[Pete Wood]

I wonder if the inks are similar to those used by Ferro...? Have a look at http://www.ferro.com/Our+Products/Tile+Coating+Systems/KERAjet+Digital+Inkjet+Printing+on+Ceramics/

I managed to get a sample of this ink to go through an old Epson printer, so pushing it out of the coarse nozzle of an aerosol shouldn't present too much of a problem.

[Joe Pelonio]

For just $149,995 one can have this UV flatbed printer, line up 32 12" tiles and print on them, or print onto a 4x8 sheet of most materials.

One of my suppliers has one. Mostly used for large full color real estate development signs.


http://colorspan.com/products/printers.asp?ProdID=195&EntryID=48

[Larry Bratton]

For just $149,995 one can have this UV flatbed printer, line up 32 12" tiles and print on them, or print onto a 4x8 sheet of most materials.

One of my suppliers has one. Mostly used for large full color real estate development signs.


http://colorspan.com/products/printers.asp?ProdID=195&EntryID=48
Yeah, I'm gonna run right out and get one of those. While I am at it, I'm going to get one of these Hasselblad digital cameras for a mere $29,995.00 to use with it. http://www.dtgweb.com/shop/product.php?productid=26119&cat=849&page=1

[Mitchell Andrus]

From the agreement:

"Section 3.2. Patent Marking and Trademarks. XXX shall mark or label all products produced using the Technology (including Improvements thereto) with the phrase “manufactured and sold under license from Atomic Art” on the label."

What lable? On the back of each tile?



If I have a license to use this process on glass, I can't use it on tile, and visa-versa.

I'd need TWO licenses:
$5,495.00 x 2 = $10,990.00 to license for both uses. How many tiles and window panels can you possibly sell to recoup that? How many lasers are you going to wear out in the process? As slow as the process is (4 passes), can you get enough work to go through a laser to pay?? How many sq.ft. throughput in an 8 hour shift?

Lets all remember silk screen printing 5 colors and firing tiles/glass still works, and can be sold to the consumer for a fraction of the cost - with a license cost of $0.00, and a setup cost of $1,000.00 to $2,000.00.

Their own figures place the cost of materials at $18.00/sq.ft. Screen printing process material cost is less than $0.40/sq.ft.

Kitchen backslash? HA! Maybe for Bill Gates.

This is an interresting idea---- BUT, if anyone ever makes money (y'know, profit) on this (aside from PI), let us know.


I don't see anything here that can't be done with a cheaper process.