Does anyone else feel the thread locking is going too far

[Steven Triggs]

It seems lately that far too many threads are being locked or edited citing "politics" as being forbidden. I am aware that the TOS clearly state that we can't discuss politics, but it seems to me like too many posts are being deemed political. If someone says that a model at a recent event said something lame about how her boyfriend died, the fact that it occured at a political event doesn't make someone's assertion that her comment was ridiculous a political view of the poster.

Also, if I happen to mention someone's name who is known because they are a politician, it doesn't just by default make my comment political. I can think someone said or did something absurd without stating that I agree or disagree with their politics.

If a major tool manufacturer replaced the cast iron in their top of the line table saws with cardboard, I suspect a lot of us would post on here that we thought it was a terrible idea. Now, if the designer of that saw turns out to be a politically active person, can we no longer make fun of his poor choice for the saw? Afterall, we'd be talking about someone who is into politics.

I realize the above example is a bit odd and extreme, but it seems to me like some fairly innocuous posts are getting hit lately. I'm concerned about where this is going...

[Tim Morton]

It seems lately that far too many threads are being locked or edited citing "politics" as being forbidden. I am aware that the TOS clearly state that we can't discuss politics, but it seems to me like too many posts are being deemed political. If someone says that a model at a recent event said something lame about how her boyfriend died, the fact that it occured at a political event doesn't make someone's assertion that her comment was ridiculous a political view of the poster.

Also, if I happen to mention someone's name who is known because they are a politician, it doesn't just by default make my comment political. I can think someone said or did something absurd without stating that I agree or disagree with their politics.

If a major tool manufacturer replaced the cast iron in their top of the line table saws with cardboard, I suspect a lot of us would post on here that we thought it was a terrible idea. Now, if the designer of that saw turns out to be a politically active person, can we no longer make fun of his poor choice for the saw? Afterall, we'd be talking about someone who is into politics.

I realize the above example is a bit odd and extreme, but it seems to me like some fairly innocuous posts are getting hit lately. I'm concerned about where this is going...

so you would rather clutter up these threads with people taking personal shots at one another over politics? You can find tons of places to banter about politics...this just isn't one of them:)

[John Shuk]

There is an exclamation point at the top of the posts that allows people to report posts or threads. If a bunch of people report it becasue they aren't too comfortable with the stuff in it the Mods may feel responsible to react.
I'm sure all of the mods will "look within" due to your post bost but it's better to shut it down prematurely than to have people with hurt feelings in my opinion.
Some of these things are subjects that people get passionate about and it can ruin the tone of this place. I'd hate to see that happen and if some stuff gets lost in the mix then I can handle that.

[Keith Cope]

I absolutely agree with the policy. If you think back a couple of years, we have lost some great members due to personal attacks, etc. It would be a shame to lose more when simple actions like this can help prevent that sort of thing.

[Per Swenson]

I am all for it.

I am fully capable of being rabid on both sides of the

political spectrum. I can't help it.

Frankly these views of mine are not pertinent here.

Nor should they be, even though this is the off topic forum.

And my apologies for the stuff I have been slinging lately.

Per

[Joe Tonich]

I don't always agree with some of the things that happen here (which some of ya know), but we're the guests. Homeowner makes the rules, we respect em if we wanna keep comin back.

[Steven Triggs]

It seems like you misunderstood my post? I don't have any interest in bantering about politics. Also, I certainly don't think personal shots should be tolerated. The whole point I was trying to make is that I'm concerned that in an effort to maintain the civilized environment we all want, we may be going to far.

At the risk of being accused of making a political statement here, which is not my intent, it reminds me a bit of some of the stuff that goes on in schools now. In an effort to prevent gun violence, we've adopted so called "zero tolerance polices" and we now expel kindergardeners for playing cops and robbers on the playground. I think we'd all agree that is an overreaction. I'm just concerned that a similar overreaction is occuring here.

But, perhaps I'm in the minority on that feeling...


so you would rather clutter up these threads with people taking personal shots at one another over politics? You can find tons of places to banter about politics...this just isn't one of them:)

[Jim Becker]

My response in another thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=624434&postcount=5) applies to this one, too. The issue isn't necessarily topic, but behavior, plain and simple.

Jim
SMC Moderator

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Steven.....Believe me when I say the Moderators Don't want to have to edit or move a thread to the Moderators Forum. We are all a socialable bunch. What you don't see is that we get a number of PMs accusing us of not moving or editing threads soon enough.

While someone may take a pot shot at a political figure or philosophy and think it's harmless and only meant as humor,someone else is often insulted by the same remark.

A lot of the threads lately have been moved NOT because of the political content but because people posting had already lowered themselves to calling opponents names.

Moderators are all volunteers. Editing a thread takes time. Especially if it runs away before we happen to catch it. Thus it is often moved because it's quicker to move it than to take 30 minutes or more to accurately read it and edit the many posts as necessary.

As one of the newest moderators, my view of the forum has changed immensely just because of the number of PMs I get from people who wanted a post either edited or closed and moved.

Moderators are not facists. And....we try to allow thoughtful discussions even in the Off Topic forum but within the grounds of the Terms Of Service. When politics or flaming starts, we have no choice but to edit or move the thread to preserve the character of SMC.

JMHO

[Gary Keedwell]

It seems like you misunderstood my post? I don't have any interest in bantering about politics. Also, I certainly don't think personal shots should be tolerated. The whole point I was trying to make is that I'm concerned that in an effort to maintain the civilized environment we all want, we may be going to far.

At the risk of being accused of making a political statement here, which is not my intent, it reminds me a bit of some of the stuff that goes on in schools now. In an effort to prevent gun violence, we've adopted so called "zero tolerance polices" and we now expel kindergardeners for playing cops and robbers on the playground. I think we'd all agree that is an overreaction. I'm just concerned that a similar overreaction is occuring here.

But, perhaps I'm in the minority on that feeling...
Steve...just want you to know that there are alot of people that feel like you do. I happen to think that the people in charge (in your example, school system) are looking for the easy out solution.
Seems like the same kids who loved to debate and challenge authority in the 1960's are now in charge and don't want to deal with the issues like our parents (God bless them) did. To me " zero tolerance" means there is no debate therefore no problem to deal with. ( I had an old girlfriend like that....she's been divorced three times lol):)
Sorry for long dialogue.
Gary K.

[Keith Outten]

Ken and Jim have explained our policies well. The reason these policies are so strickly enforced here is that we decided in the beginning that The Creek would be a place for all woodworkers...young and old / women and men. When things start getting roudy for want of a better term it can quickly cause many of our Members to get concerned that our Community is degrading to a level that is inappropriate for many who came here because civil behavior is the standard.

Ladies are comfortable participating here because they know our Staff will enforce our TOS. Many of our Members have children that have joined The Creek, their parents feel comfortable with their children participating here knowing that our Staff will enforce our TOS. We have demonstrated over four years that our Community can be civilized, friendly and kind toward each other. Whenever a thread starts to degrade our first concern isn't the thread, it is the protection of our Members.

If we seem a bit trigger happy when it comes to removing threads our concerns for our Members outweighs the loss of a particular topic that has become a problem. We are a Moderated Community and our Members report problem posts as quick as they appear in many instances. A particular Moderator may receive a dozen Private Messages in a matter of seconds when someone violates out TOS, you can see that most of the time we don't make the decision to remove a thread...our Community does.

.

[Keith Outten]

Gary,

I am a child of the sixties so I understand all too well how you feel. The bottom line is that The Creek isn't the place or the platform for political debate or civil disobdience, its a woodworking forum.

Our only goal is to maintain a friendly place for woodworkers to gather.

.

[Bruce Page]

Steve, I can see both sides of the argument but as someone who’s been here from day one and has seen seemingly innocuous threads burst into flames, I have to side with the Mods. SMC isn’t a democracy but it’s the best WW forum on the net because of it’s rules.
JMHO

[Steve Clardy]

Steve, I can see both sides of the argument but as someone who’s been here from day one and has seen seemingly innocuous threads burst into flames, I have to side with the Mods. SMC isn’t a democracy but it’s the best WW forum on the net because of it’s rules.
JMHO


:eek: ;) :D :D

[glenn bradley]

We have actually lost folks who want to spend their time talking wood not other stuff. There are plenty of forums or even SMC's PM system to cover other needs. Here I like to talk wood.

I do enjoy the off topic stuff as it acts as a sort of window into other Creeker's lives outside of pure woodworking so I guess we just have to find a mix that fits the culture of this forum and save the stuff that doesn't for somewhere else. No biggie.

[Tim Wagner]

I personally liked the thread. I am interested in that sort of thing and wondered what my friends here thought of the subject. It is hard to find a good site that has the kind of atmosphere this site has. It seems kind of strange that I just saw a story on CNN about some "eco terrorists" that did 12,000 dollars damage to a guy's brand new Hum-V. It is the same with personal attacks. I learned long ago if some one doesn't agree with my post. no counter reply be me will be made. We just can't seem to play nice around these kind of topics.

[Gary Keedwell]

. I learned long ago if some one doesn't agree with my post. no counter reply be me will be made. We just can't seem to play nice around these kind of topics.

I think you hit on something Tim. I think we all should try to be more "thick-skinned". :o

Gary

[Jim Becker]

I think we all should try to be more "thick-skinned".




No, we should all strive to be more courteous...

[Matt Meiser]

Personally I'm glad that they do things the way they do. I'd much rather see this forum be a place to discuss woodworking and related interests than a place to debate irrelavent issues. There are a lot of things said in those threads that wouldn't be said if the debaters were standing in front of each other. Then things get out of hand and the thread gets locked or moved--so the "debaters" take it to a new thread. It grows tiresome. Yes, the threads can be ignored, but the tension spills over into other parts of the forum and is counter to the helpful spirit that usually lives here. My personal opinion is that the line gets crossed as soon as the tone goes from offering alternate view to saying that someone elses view is wrong.

It isn't just political threads either. There are plenty of locked E-vs-F threads and euro-slider threads.

[Al Willits]

Always an interesting battle between mods being extremely reactionary and those who think what ever ya can post, should be able to be posted, free speech in anything.

I usually find mods more restrictive than I care, but the unfortunate problem is people who don't think sometimes post, and the battle begins.

I watched a Audio/Visual forum self destruct because of a few morons who though respect was for someone else, and started major flame wars, dragging other in when the prudent thing would have been to ignore them.

So unfortunately mods have to may sure none of this happens, it is indeed a case of a few making things bad for the many.
And if they decide to have a zero tolerance attitude, forum members can either contact the mods and attempt to change the TOS, abide by the TOS, or find/start there own forum.

I am about as PC as Attila the Hun, but I enjoy this forum enough that I live by the rules...well, usually..:D
But I do believe some sort of moderation is required and considering the types of people out there, better to tight a rein than to loose I guess.

Al

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

"I SAY GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH~!!"

[sounds of pump actions chambering rounds]


"Well lets not get too worked up guys."

[Jeffrey Fusaro]

Personally I'm glad that they do things the way they do. I'd much rather see this forum be a place to discuss woodworking and related interests than a place to debate irrelavent issues. There are a lot of things said in those threads that wouldn't be said if the debaters were standing in front of each other. Then things get out of hand and the thread gets locked or moved--so the "debaters" take it to a new thread. It grows tiresome. Yes, the threads can be ignored, but the tension spills over into other parts of the forum and is counter to the helpful spirit that usually lives here. My personal opinion is that the line gets crossed as soon as the tone goes from offering alternate view to saying that someone elses view is wrong.

It isn't just political threads either. There are plenty of locked E-vs-F threads and euro-slider threads.



thanks, matt! you saved me a bunch of typing. couldn't have said it any better.

[Joe Chritz]

You can't have enforcement of any rules without some discretion. It simply isn't possible. Discretion is a good thing and does all kinds of good things. Most of which aren't important here.

The point is, discretion is only a problem when the "enforcers" aren't on the same page or are opposite in the strictness (is that even a word?) that is used in dealing with infractions.

It may not be how I would handle it, but it isn't mine to run. Personally I think the mods have done a fine and fair job. If multiple people are involved they are obviously on the same page.

Joe

[TYLER WOOD]

I know as being one who has been moderated. I had no problem with the edits, or moved posts. I am like someone stated above, as pc as Atilla. I beleive if you don't like it go fly a kite. But this is not the place for that stuff. We have a fine and dandy woodworking forum, because of the moderators. I know sometimes they agee with the post that you have placed, but yet still, because of rules, have to edit. We sign up for this forum knowing there are rules and they will be enforced. If you don't like the rules being enforced, see above statement about flying that same kite.

I know I personally thank the moderators here. The times my posts were edited, I received a PM stating the reason, and that they were sorry, but it had to be done. Fine and thanks for you personal time making this a great place to come and sit for a while while not working myself!!!!

[Jameel Abraham]

" Does anyone else feel the thread locking is going too far"

I thought this thread was going to be about lock-tite or nylon insert nuts when I clicked on it!

[Art Mulder]

No, we should all strive to be more courteous...

Hear, Hear!
Thanks, Jim. My thoughts exactly.


There are a lot of things said in those threads that wouldn't be said if the debaters were standing in front of each other. Then things get out of hand ...

I mostly agree with Matt also.

Actually, I think some things that are said in those threads would be said face to to face. However, in that case I would see the twinkle in someone's eye, or hear the tone of their voice, and I could tell that they were kidding, or just trying to get a rise out of me, (for example). Or, if we were face to face, I could see that someone was clearly in a bad mood, had a bad day or some such, and I would say things differently or not at all (again, for example). And finally, if we were face to face, we'd see body english, which would also help us in having a dynamic conversation on a topic like global warming. (not to mention being able to share a coke or a beer together and a bowl of chips would help smooth the way also. :cool: )

This is the big challenge in any on-line forum. There is no auditory cues, no visual cues, and no body language... all things that we normally get from a conversation.

I've been on the Internet since '87 and I see this situation over and over again. Unfortunately.

[Jerry Clark]

I vote for Jim-- it was getting out of hand!:cool:

[Chuck Wintle]

I vote for Jim-- it was getting out of hand!:cool:

Same here! I agree with free speech but with it comes responsibility. This seems to be an aspect most forget in their rush to put forth an opinion that is not well thought out. :D

[Wayne Watling]

The moderators on this site do an exceptional job and at the same time participate in the discussions which really makes for a great community. They are limited to the tools available to them when threads start to get a little heated, sometimes the only option is to move the thread into their moderation forum (or whatever) for review when time permits, after thinking about it this is totally understandable given that this is the only option for them.
Given that debates about emotive issues are only going to continue perhaps its worth looking at other possible solutions.
One possible solution that would greatly help all the moderators with their limited time is an over 18 or 21 y/o forum that is only available to those members who specifically subscribe to it, if you dont subscribe all you will see is the forum name you wont see any of the postings.

This would also allow moderators to move discussions to that forum if they become a little heated, or subscribed SMC member can start their own discussion in the forum if they think the discussion might cause other members some offense.

I see it as a great opportunity for SMC members to have a place to discuss issues that are affecting them with other SMC members without causing offence to other members. If you choose to subscribe then you will have no cause to make any complaints about the content. Only those members over a certain age would be permitted to subscribe.

Food for thought..

Wayne

[Greg Peterson]

I find it interesting to see what people that I share a common interest in, think about subjects other than woodworking.

I don't find it beneficial or helpful to see what people that I share a common interest in, think about subjects other than woodworking.

Free speech is protected in the public square. The owners/operators of SMC are not obligated to protect the 1st amendment.

There is at least one woodworking forum where the posting restrictions are a bit more relaxed. The posts however are not relaxed. However, as long as one echoes or reinforces the mods perspective, they are given considerable latitude in the arguments or rebuttals they post. Dissenting posts or opinions are not tolerated nearly as gracefully as here at SMC.

Regardless, it is the nature of internet forums at this date to devolve into mayhem and counterproductive rants. While I would like to see a less homogenized posting atmosphere at SMC, the reality is that a lot of the charm and the sense of open community would suffer negatively.

[Jim Becker]

Interesting idea, Wayne. Thanks for suggesting it. The issues I see are, 1) it's not the mission of SMC to provide a sanctuary for such discussion and 2) setting things up that way would require a lot of work...and expense...since we do pay our administrator/programmer for his time in keeping SMC running smoothly as well as adding new features and updates to the base software. (The work he had to do to get the Plans Forum to only "work" for contributing members was substantial)

There are hundreds if not thousands of places on the Internet to have unbridled discussion about just about any topic one is interested in. Can't we just keep the main focus of SMC on woodworking and our OT forum for things like 'Creeker travel, family news, helpful advise on things like digicams that are supportive of our hobby, etc.?

[Clint Jones]

If you dont like the rules you can GEEEEEEEEEEEEET OUT!!!!!!!!

[Bill Lantry]

I think the mods here do a pretty good job. I'm a refugee from another forum whose name you know. They also have a no politics rule, which is strongly enforced. The only problem: it's not enforced universally. You can expect any political thread to be locked, unless the post contains authoritarian militaristic nationalism. And if someone speaks out, they get shellaced. They reject all religious postings... unless you're an evangelical literalist christian. Those kinds of religious posts are fine. And any racist statement is just fine, as long as it's couched in the terms of a joke, and as long as it's pro-white.

Don't get me wrong... most of the people there are wonderful, and the people who post those things quite literally mean no harm and don't think they're doing anything bad. It's not intentional. Those guys taught me a lot about woodworking, and I'm greatful. I'd even buy them a beer if I ran into them.

I just got tired of dealing with that stuff whenever I opened the forum. Now, I've been called some pretty yucky things on SMC, and even been threatened, but the mods stepped right in and stopped it. They're doing a pretty good job in my book...

Thanks,

Bill

[Wayne Watling]

If you dont like the rules you can GEEEEEEEEEEEEET OUT!!!!!!!!

Clint,

That comes across as pretty unfriendly, during the heat of a recent debate on GW I never heard anyone speak with so much venom to other members.

Partial quote from Keiths warning to members:
Whenever a difference of opinion exists reasonable people will accept another individuals point of view. Those who cannot tolerate Members of this Community who subscribe to a different philosophy than their own will soon find their access to The Creek removed.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Wayne,

And there in lies the problem as I see it as a moderator.

Others have said that the rules establish and determine the character of the group of forums.

I don't see Clint's comment as venemous but rather blunt.

How do you see it?

Should I edit or close the thread and move it.

Frankly....this is a group of woodworking and related forums. I don't want to see the civil exchange of information lost because people can't keep their emotions to themselves.

There are a number of political and religious forums on the internet. Take those subjects there..........

SMC is about woodworking and related subjects.....information exchanged in a civil matter.....

[Greg Peterson]

"If you dont like the rules you can GEEEEEEEEEEEEET OUT!!!!!!!!"

Blunt is accurate.

Shouting is more accurate.

It is not venomous.

It is loud and lacking social grace however. Not what I would consider a civil manner. YMMV.

[Lee DeRaud]

"If you dont like the rules you can GEEEEEEEEEEEEET OUT!!!!!!!!"

Blunt is accurate.

Shouting is more accurate.

It is not venomous.

It is loud and lacking social grace however. Not what I would consider a civil manner. YMMV.Second that. Pretty bloody rude, in fact. Not to mention, that's not really how it works.

Now, if he had said:
"If you're not willing to abide by the rules you can GEEEEEEEEEEEEET OUT!!!!!!!!"
it would be a lot closer to how it actually works here. Still pretty bloody rude, but at least more accurate: not liking the rules is fine, violating them is not.

(If there's anything about how this place is run that bothers me, it's that saying you don't like the rules sometimes get treated the same as actually violating them, but so it goes.)

[Dennis Peacock]

One thing we all have to remember is that forum moderation isn't as simple as it may seem. The mods here have recently went through and totally reviewed the currently applied Terms Of Service(TOS) for SMC and we made some changes and attempted to clear up some stated things in the TOS to see about making it easier to understand, state more about what is to be expected, and such as this. Each SMC staff member has been assisting in reworking the TOS and the final version is currently under review.

This review exercise has also assisted each moderator/administrator in learning and gaining a better understanding of what needs to be stated for a newer TOS for SMC as well as to better solidify our own understandings about the TOS going forward for SMC.

What many do not know is that the moderators "often" discuss issues with posts or threads long before anything is done with a post/thread by a moderator. This way, we as moderators are making active attempts to evenly apply moderation methods across all of SMC. Moderators are people just like you and are volunteers who give of their own personal time to assist in helping SMC to be the best woodworking forum that it can be. Given the number of members we have and given the varied locations that our members come in from, presents many views and beliefs about most any subject presented on SMC.

It has always been a stance of the TOS on SMC that Politics and Religion not be allowed due to their potentially volatile nature between disparate social standings.

Any way, we do what we do as best we know and understand and will continue to attempt to keep SMC as positive, educational, and family friendly as possible.

Thank you for your understanding and contributions to the community of SMC.

[Chris Barton]

Moderators have a tough job. Let's not make it worse. This forum is about woodworking like about 100 other people have said. Leave politics out of it...

[John Schreiber]

Love your moderator! Understand how difficult and thankless their job is.

Love the Creek! The Creek is the people who participate and the moderators and the administrators and the owners. We owe a lot to all.

Respect one another. Just a good general rule.

[Gary Keedwell]

Love your moderator! Understand how difficult and thankless their job is.

Love the Creek! The Creek is the people who participate and the moderators and the administrators and the owners. We owe a lot to all.

Respect one another. Just a good general rule.

I think that calls for a group hug:rolleyes: :D

Gary K.

[Jim Becker]

I think that calls for a group hug

Oooh....aah....umm...could you scratch a little to the right? Yea, right there....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......:p ;) :D

[Tim Wagner]

what I want to know is what do any of these threads have to do with this one as being "similar threads"

Picture posting thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=47742) Travis Staes General Woodworking and Power Tools 2 12-15-2006 9:31 PM Outboard Thread Size for a Jet 1442 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=46916) Chris Fairbanks Turner's Forum 7 12-01-2006 9:00 PM Cant find fairly recent thread about website design software (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=46200) Doug Shepard Off Topic Forum 3 11-20-2006 8:44 PM peppermill thread size (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=5664) Tom Hintz Off Topic Forum 1 12-30-2003 9:10 AM

[Jim Becker]

what I want to know is what do any of these threads have to do with this one as being "similar threads"

Picture posting thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=47742) Travis Staes General Woodworking and Power Tools 2 12-15-2006 9:31 PM Outboard Thread Size for a Jet 1442 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=46916) Chris Fairbanks Turner's Forum 7 12-01-2006 9:00 PM Cant find fairly recent thread about website design software (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=46200) Doug Shepard Off Topic Forum 3 11-20-2006 8:44 PM peppermill thread size (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=5664) Tom Hintz Off Topic Forum 1 12-30-2003 9:10 AM

Software...can't live with it...can't shoot it... :eek:

[Brent Dowell]

This might be off topic in this thread, as it appears to have wandered.

But No, I don't think thread locking has gone too far.

I appreciate the efforts of the moderators to keep things civil.

Thanks Guys!

[Steven Triggs]

I'd like to clarify that I in no way meant to imply that the moderators aren't doing a good job. I believe they are doing what they are supposed to do, and what people are asking them to do.

My intent was to suggest that we as a community might want to consider where things are going. In my earlier analogy about zero tolerance policies in schools, it isn't the teachers and principles who are to blame. It is society for demanding, and needing, such policies.

This is no different. It feels to me sometimes like we in this forum are a little quick to get upset about someone expressing their opinion. It also feels to me that we in this forum are too quick to blast someone for their opinion.

Take this post for example. I am someone who has, to my knowledge, never come close to being moderated or edited. I've never blasted anyone in here. However, simply by posting a thread that asked what people think about the state of things, I've now been told "If I don't like the rules, get out" in the most extreme example. In other responses, it was pretty clear that simply asking the question really upset some people, even if their posts were not bluntly rude.

I'm still pretty new to this forum, and so I'm still feeling my way around as to how people behave in here. For the most part, it seems like everyone is very respectful and courteous to one another. I just find it a bit self-contradictory that if someone (I've seen similar in threads that I wasn't part of) expresses a counter-opinion, people get so emotional about telling them that this is no place for emotion. Or something like that... I'm not exactly sure how to phrase that, but I think you can probably understand what I'm saying.

Anyway, take care...

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Steven.....The problem is that it's so analog and not digital.

I wish it was black and white....but it's not it's shades of gray and that's what makes it so hard to determine what should be removed and what shouldn't.


Example...Earlier someone said roughly..."If you don't like the rules....leave".........Immediately someone came back that they found this statement offensive.

Frankly.....from my point of view the first statement to me meant the following....1....You agree to the TOSs when you become a member 2 If you don't like the way things are done here, don't come here....3 and don't rain on our parade. Now....the guy didn't call anybody names....he didn't demean anyone. He just stated his opinion. It's not against the TOSs to state your opinion as long as you don't flame or demean someone or use profanity etc.

I know of no moderator who's closed or edited a thread UNLESS the opinion was political, demeaning, extemely uncivil, make a religious statement etc.

It's when people start calling names, using profanity, making statements that WOULD and SHOULD offend a group of members that we, as moderators, have to take action. We do so only to protect the character of the forum and protect the members. We want people to come here and exchange information about woodworking and related topics. We don't want them coming here making political or religous statements, posting obscene postings etc.

The trouble arises because of the gray area.....where is the line.

There are enough internet sites out there where political and religious discussions can take place. SMC is not one of them.

Believe me when I say....as moderators we don't want to have to take action...editing or closing and moving threads. It's not fun for us.

[Dennis Peacock]

I'd like to clarify that I in no way meant to imply that the moderators aren't doing a good job. I believe they are doing what they are supposed to do, and what people are asking them to do.


Steven,

I understand what you are saying, but unfortunately, the written word lacks the voice tones, facial expressions, and such that gets the real meaning and intensions across to each person on the receiving end. I've been guilty of writing something in a forum or email that the reader(s) took as meaning something of ill feelings. Not my real meaning in the first place. :rolleyes:

Putting ones emotions in a post in an attempt to get the "real meaning" of what one is saying can be taken "many" different ways and a lot of it has to do with how each reader "interprets" what was typed.

[Dennis Peacock]

Steven.....The problem is that it's so analog and not digital.

I wish it was black and white....but it's not it's shades of gray and that's what makes it so hard to determine what should be removed and what shouldn't.


Example...Earlier someone said roughly..."If you don't like the rules....leave".........Immediately someone came back that they found this statement offensive.

Frankly.....from my point of view the first statement to me meant the following....1....You agree to the TOSs when you become a member 2 If you don't like the way things are done here, don't come here....3 and don't rain on our parade. Now....the guy didn't call anybody names....he didn't demean anyone. He just stated his opinion. It's not against the TOSs to state your opinion as long as you don't flame or demean someone or use profanity etc.

I know of know moderator who's closed or edited a thread UNLESS the opinion was political, demeaning, extemely uncivil, make a religious statement etc.

It's when people start calling names, using profanity, making statements that WOULD and SHOULD offend a group of members that we, as moderators, have to take action. We do so only to protect the character of the forum and protect the members. We want people to come here and exchange information about woodworking and related topics. We don't want them coming here making political or religous statements, posting obscene postings etc.

The trouble arises because of the gray area.....where is the line.

There are enough internet sites out there where political and religious discussions can take place. SMC is not one of them.

Believe me when I say....as moderators we don't want to have to take action...editing or closing and moving threads. It's not fun for us.


Very well stated Ken. Thank you for your clear explanation.

[Gary Keedwell]

Example...Earlier someone said roughly..."If you don't like the rules....leave".........Immediately someone came back that they found this statement offensive.

Frankly.....from my point of view the first statement to me meant the following....1....You agree to the TOSs when you become a member 2 If you don't like the way things are done here, don't come here....3 and don't rain on our parade. Now....the guy didn't call anybody names....he didn't demean anyone. He just stated his opinion. It's not against the TOSs to state your opinion as long as you don't flame or demean someone or use profanity etc.


:) Ken, you got all that from: "If you don't like the rules you can GEEEEEEEEEEEEET OUT!!!!!!!!" ?

When I suggested that we be a little more "thick-skinned" Jim countered that we should be more courteous. I agree with Jim that we should all be a little more courteous and civil. My suggestion ( yes,I'm going to try it, too) is when you read something that gets your "dander-up", that you step away from the computer and take a little "break" before you come back and respond.
For lack of a better phrase, I'll call it "poster's remorse":o I know I have been guilty as charged.:(
Gary K.

[Jim Becker]

Lest we all forget, there is an old saying that is quite appropriate:

"Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it..."