Grizzly 10" Sliding Tablesaw G0623X

[Russ Mullins]

I see this new offering on the website today. The manual is not online as of this writing, but there are several photos. I want to learn more about sliding tablesaws, given their reputation for accuracy, repeatability, and safety.

I know it's impossible to make any sort of informed judgment at this point, but do any of you with sliding tablesaw experience have any preliminary thoughts about this model?

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I saw it at the Muncy PA Grizzly store yesterday. Seems like a tremendous value (typical Grizzly). It was heavy and solid as a rock. They didn't have them in stock or I would have brought one home with me.

[Pat Germain]

I'm impressed this saw has a riving knife and a scoring blade, but perhaps that's standard on a sliding table saw.

I still haven't grasped how a sliding table saw works. I've never actually seen one, let alone a demo. Are there any online demos I could view?

If that Grizzly saw had SawStop technology, I'd be completely sold. :)

[frank shic]

Now that is a BEAUTIFUL and AFFORDABLE machine! Thank you for sharing that new development with the rest of us Russ. I've been slowly developing my tablesaw over the last three years to become the ultimate machine for cutting full sized panels. Jeffrey is right: this is a tremendous value. Here's the breakdown of my current setup: powermatic 64 contractor's saw $900, exaktor sliding table $500 (craigslist), modulus 2000 scoring attachment $200, sharkguard $150, digifence $250. When you add it all together, I've paid almost $2000 altogether. This new offering from grizzly has all these features except for the digital fence and it's a CABINET saw. It has more than enough capacity to crosscut sheet products and you can walk through the entire cut unlike the exaktor sliding table. If I could pay the difference and swap machines, I'd do it in a heartbeat!

Russ, the advantages of a sliding table saw include: better support for large panels, easier to push than a miter sled, easier to align and re-align crosscut fence, less chip out than a traditional table saw, ability to straight line rip (joint) solid wood stock. Probably the best part is that you can keep your hands FAR away from the blade. I'm sure Paul Cresti and Jim Becker can fill in some of the other advantages...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0623X

[Russ Mullins]

Pat, here's where Mini Max has a video of one of their sliding tablesaws: http://www.minimax-usa.com/player_beta/index.html
If anyone knows of other online videos demonstrating sliding tablesaws, please post the links.

[Russ Mullins]

I hope Jim, Paul, and others with sliding tablesaws will chime in. I have a few questions about certain operations. These are general in nature, based on your experience with your saw, since I know you haven’t seen the new Grizzly G0623X:

Crosscutting: Once you have the crosscut table and outrigger dialed in for 90 degree cuts, and you remove and replace them, does they stay dialed in?
When you switch to a miter cut, say a 45 degree cut, are there “positive stops” or some other method of assuring a true 45? Do you have to check and test cut every time?
From the photos, the G0623X appears to have a miter gauge and short fence attached to the sliding table, in addition to the crosscut table and outrigger. Is this common among sliding tablesaws, and is it useful?

Ripping: Do you use the “standard” rip fence method, as on a cabinet saw, or the sliding table most of the time? I know it depends on the length of the stock and the rip width.
I'm still trying to figure out ripping using the sliding table, and how you keep the stock the same width the entire length of the rip. I guess I'll have to watch more videos or see one in action.

FYI, I'm a hobbiest, and I use mostly solid stock, but some sheet goods also.

[Jim Becker]

I'm impressed this saw has a riving knife and a scoring blade, but perhaps that's standard on a sliding table saw.

Riving knives are standard. Scoring blades are either standard or optional, depending on the brand/model.


If that Grizzly saw had SawStop technology, I'd be completely sold. :)

Not as much of an issue with a slider since your hands don't get near the blade...the wagon (slider) supports and moves the material through the cut. Euro machines typically stop the blade much faster, too, which avoids the very common accidents caused after the cut when one reaches for the workpiece or off-cut before the blade stops turning.

[David DeCristoforo]

A few things to consider in general. If you do a lot of work with sheet stock, a slider is a good investment. But you may find a slider with a stroke of less than 96" to be somewhat limiting (for obvious reasons). Also, while the sliding table is extremely useful for many things other than panel cutting, the slider is not the best general purpose table saw. The thing most new users experience is that for much of what they use a table saw for, the slider is in the way. This is much more of an issue as the saws get larger because the support bed for the sliding table is more massive on larger saws. But even with a smaller saw where the support bed is simply a cantilevered bar, it can be very awkward to have to work around it. Furthermore, most of these machines require a considerable amount of "tweaking" to get everything properly alined and squared up. Most saws will hold these adjustments but the idea that you can simply mount and dismount the slider without having to re-adjust each time is something of a myth. I have a Felder KF700 Pro slider in my shop and it sees a lot of use. But for general use, (and esp. for ripping solid stock) the old Unisaw still gets the nod. I don't have any first hand experience with the G0623X and very little with Grizzly in general so the above comments are not intended as a critique of this particular saw.

[Jim Becker]

The thing most new users experience is that for much of what they use a table saw for, the slider is in the way.

I thought that when I first got my slider...and then I learned new ways to do things that required fence on the cabinet saw I used to own.

[Paul Canaris]

Crosscutting: Once you have the crosscut table and outrigger dialed in for 90 degree cuts, and you remove and replace them, does they stay dialed in? ---- Yes with the units I have used, but this can differ with the design of the unit from close to dead on.

When you switch to a miter cut, say a 45 degree cut, are there “positive stops” or some other method of assuring a true 45? Do you have to check and test cut every time? As above. You really need to speak to someone that owns one of these to see specifically what if any weaknesses in design it has.


Ripping: Do you use the “standard” rip fence method, as on a cabinet saw, or the sliding table most of the time? I know it depends on the length of the stock and the rip width. You can use either method, but as a rule I rip using the fence; but if you do so you must be aware of the degree of TS top - Slider offset as they are at different heights based on setup.

If you dont do a lot of sheet goods, or milling of solid lumber with natural edges you will get less value out of a slider, and it may actually be slower than a standard table saw for what you do most.

[Russ Mullins]

Jeffrey, that’s good to know that there is a G0623X in the showroom. I wish I lived closer to a showroom, but I’m in southern Colorado, and Springfield, MO is over 900 miles away. For those of you who are knowledgeable about european format sliding tablesaws, and who might be visiting a Grizzly showroom, I would really like to hear your impressions of the G0623X. Specifically, I would be interested in the following:
Quality of sliding table and crosscut table.
Crosscut fence and how it mounts. E.g., once set up perpendicular to the blade, is there a positive locking mechanism for removing and reinstalling the crosscut fence?
Rip fence and rails.
Overall design.
Fit and finish.
Anything else that I'm not smart enough to think of.

I’m interested in this model, but I certainly haven’t decided to get this one, or any other EFSTS for that matter. I know that some might argue for a longer stroke, or one with more features, or a true European model. For me, however, that is not in the cards at this point. If the G0623X appears to be well designed and well built, then notwithstanding its capacity limitations (which would not be very limiting for me, given my needs), the price might be right.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I looked at their model when I was shopping for a slider. I ended up going with a Hammer because the Griz was just a tad too big for me.


There is absolutely no reason int the world that Griz couldn't make a good slider - if they chose to.


When tech issues aren't an issue at all - and with sliders they are not. Then, it's all a matter of good machining good casting and extrusions and assembly. It's all technology that isn't going to challenge any one except the marketing people who are always driving the engineers to shave costs till the products they sell are as close to worthless as they can possibly be (with nice paint schemes and colorful brochures - of course). Griz seems not to have gotten over run by that sort of marketing. They have a little but it's not running the company that's for sure.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Crosscutting: Once you have the crosscut table and outrigger dialed in for 90 degree cuts, and you remove and replace them, does they stay dialed in?
When you switch to a miter cut, say a 45 degree cut, are there “positive stops” or some other method of assuring a true 45? Do you have to check and test cut every time?
From the photos, the G0623X appears to have a miter gauge and short fence attached to the sliding table, in addition to the crosscut table and outrigger. Is this common among sliding tablesaws, and is it useful?

Ripping: Do you use the “standard” rip fence method, as on a cabinet saw, or the sliding table most of the time? I know it depends on the length of the stock and the rip width.
I'm still trying to figure out ripping using the sliding table, and how you keep the stock the same width the entire length of the rip. I guess I'll have to watch more videos or see one in action.


Russ,
First to answer your questions:

Many saws and many manufaturers have different ways of tackling mitering. On my saw the main crosscut fence does have markings on the outrigger table that you can set to but I have never used them. I use the main fence for 90d cuts only. I also have a miter gauge...actually it is a miter gauge on steriods. It is big and accurate or should I say as accurate as I need it to be in making wood products. It has positive detents and are easily set back to 90d. It rotates both ways + or - you can see it in the pics below.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=23389

I find having two fences extremely valuable. It allows you to use one side of the slider for 90d cuts while having the miter guage set on the other end for mitering.

Ripping can be done in many ways. One could use the regular rip fence (at times I do for one single cut or the slider. There many ways to rip using the slider. Some buy special ripping jigs from the saw manufactorer and some make there own. One could reference off of the flip stops of both the main crosscut fence and the miter gauge, set them to the same distance and then lay the stock against them. I came up with my own jig. I use it when I need to make many rips of the same size or very special rips or even very small stock cuts. It was important for me to be able to put it on very quickly, use it and then take it off...so this is what I came up with..

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=31545

Sliders are wonderful machines and they offer many ways to accomplish many tasks. I use my slider for crosscutting, mitering, compound mitering, dadoing (see below for my dadoing set up), edging of long stock, trimming, panel sizing, squaring, ripping, ripping of very odd shaped pieces or molding (using my ripping jig) and I am sure of many others I can not think of or have not figured out yet. One of the main benefits of a slider is the operator does not need to be near the blade or in the danger zone. I always use my over head guard (and of course my saw has that incredible feature called a riving knife). I do not care what anyone says I do not need to see the blade cut the wood so the guard over guard to me is a no brainer, it provides a path to remove a lot of dust and debris plus it completely covers the blade and provides me the upmost of safety.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26285

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=28088

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=51355

Do check out the rest of my postings here as I have tried to explain what I have discovered in my using and my self education of my sliders. Slider usage will take some time to get use to. You have to let go of your bad habits or learned methods of how to process wood and start all over again. Is it for the better? Well I think so. I have been using sliders now for a little over four years now and the thought of going back to a cabinet saw are scary. I do have to say if I ever got rid of my slider I would using my bandsaw for solid stock ripping and go back to a guided saw system for sheetgoods. In fact I actually do a lot of solid stock ripping on my bandsaw but it usually because it is so quick and i have my slider set up doing something else.

Buying a slider from a company that has no real history in development of the machines to me is iffy. Fact is if you buy a from just about any company from countries like Italy, Germany or Austria you will get one well engineered piece of machinery. These companies (Altendorf in particular) have developed and refined hes saws over many years of trial and error. They continually improve their saws and know how to support them because they know them inside and out. A company that does not have this "history" will not be able to fair so well. They "learned" this technology through revearse engineering and if you ask me the best way to learn how to do something is by doing it and failing and then doing again knowing what not to do the next time. Will these "new" companies get it "right" someday? I would have to think so but I for one would like to be their testing ground

[Tim Marks]

A company that does not have this "history" will not be able to fair so well. They "learned" this technology through revearse engineering and if you ask me the best way to learn how to do something is by doing it and failing and then doing again knowing what not to do the next time. Will these "new" companies get it "right" someday?

Look at the evolution of grizzly machines over the past 10 years. They have gone from being the cheap, despised machines to leading the pack. Look at how their bandsaws have evolved. They led all the manufacturers in evolving/improving features until they have argueably some of the best around... even compared to italian models.

Their new 10" slider follows in the footsteps of bigger brothers that they have been building for five years, and grizzly is not one to rest on their laurals... that is probably 5 generations of design changes (wheras most companies with "history" are very slow to make any design modifications/improvements, maybe taking 10 years to make one "generational" change.). I think grizzly has already got it right.

[Chris Barton]

Some folks have a long history of having issues with grizzly, based in objective evidence or not. Do an advanced search of grizzly products and see for yourself...

[frank shic]

Alright, any volunteers to buy the thing and give us all a hearty review? :D

[Charles Grosjean]

Their [Grizzly] new 10" slider follows in the footsteps of bigger brothers that they have been building for five years, and grizzly is not one to rest on their laurals... that is probably 5 generations of design changes (wheras most companies with "history" are very slow to make any design modifications/improvements, maybe taking 10 years to make one "generational" change.).

Disclaimer: I am a happy Grizzly customer.

Here is a quick list of recent innovations in sliders and the manufacturer(s) who designed and/or implemented the innovation.


left/right (+/- 46 deg) tilt - Martin
parallelogram (mitering) outrigger - SCM, Martin
composite (concrete/steel) structure - Martin
polymer trunnion inserts - Martin, Felder
X-roll slider - Felder
no tool blade change - Martin
electronic scoring width adjustment - Altendorf, Martin, others
CNC/tool compensation - almost everyone


Seems like at least some of the companies with "history" are pretty decent at innovation. Grizzly brings value, but at least with the current offering (per catalog/web), no design improvements.

[Phil Pritchard]

I'm impressed this saw has a riving knife and a scoring blade, but perhaps that's standard on a sliding table saw.
It's been standard on almost all saws made in Europe for the last 35 to 40 years. Sliders have been around that long over here (longer) and the scorers came in in the 1970s


I still haven't grasped how a sliding table saw works. I've never actually seen one, let alone a demo. Are there any online demos I could view? .
Have a look for Felder or Robland/Laguna videos on line. They both have VHS and DVD films of their products available but I can't find an on-line version


If that Grizzly saw had SawStop technology, I'd be completely sold. :)
You don't need SawStop technology that much with a true slider - most of the cutting is done from the slider side so your hands don't go near the blade anywhere near as much.

BTW, I'm a long-time Altendorf slider user

Phil

[Ron Williams]

I saw this machine in Las Vegas and was very impressed with its build quality. This was a prototype and will not be available until oct.

[Russ Mullins]

Paul B. Cresti, thanks for the detailed response and links to all the information you've posted. It's very helpful.
One thing I was wondering about. Is the sliding table, or wagon, mounted flush with the top of the main table, i.e., the cast iron table? Seems like I had read somewhere that the sliding table was mounted slightly above the main table.

[Jim Becker]

One thing I was wondering about. Is the sliding table, or wagon, mounted flush with the top of the main table, i.e., the cast iron table?

The wagon is "ever so slightly higher" than the table...enough to keep friction at bay, but not enough to affect those times when you want to do a "traditional rip with the fence". We're talking about a very small amount here!

[John Hain]

I saw this machine in Las Vegas and was very impressed with its build quality. This was a prototype and will not be available until oct.

I saw it in Vegas as well and came away with a somewhat different opinion. I do agree it's a very nice saw and I certainly wouldn't turn down the opportunity to buy if a fantastic/ridiculous offer came along. But in direct comparison to the MM and Felder, I felt it didn't have the fit and finish. The slider didn't "glide" perfectly like the others. I also wonder why they didn't do some cuts for us. Heck, I think MM had the 410 burning through lumber all morning.

Like I said, it's a darn good saw, but I didn't think as good as the MM/Felder.

[Tim Marks]

But in direct comparison to the MM and Felder, I felt it didn't have the fit and finish.

$3900 (Grizzly G0460) vs. $5200 (MM SC3W) or $5300 (Felder K500)? And the Grizzly isn't built as well? I would hope you are getting something for the extra $1300 besides an italian nameplate.

And now Grizzly is selling a 10" that is more within the price range of the average hobbiest. Many of us could envision paying $2750 for a tablesaw,while we wouldn't dream of shelling out $5200 or more.

Not that I actually see myself doing so. I would probably just (settle!) for a used PM 66 cabinet saw.

It is ironic that you mention the MM410 in the same paragraph as the Grizzly. $19000 - 25000!!! And you think the $2750 saw isn't as well built!??!!! That is not just apples to oranges, that is like comparing an apple to a trainload of coconuts...

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

I'm new to the Sawmill, so thanks for all of your comments, they are very helpful.

I've just sold my hybrid Craftsman Professional (a great saw, just wanted a bigger one!), and have been considering a euro-style slider for the safety and precision of the wagon. I've looked at Laguna's TSS w/slide--seemed nice, but at nearly $6K fully dressed a little to rich for my blood. Most of the others also, MM, Felder, Robland were also a bit too expensive for my hobby. Then I stumbled on the Grizzly 0623X: too good to be true?

I've read your posts on the Griz 0623X, but it seems that nobody has any actual hands-on experience yet?

Has that changed?

I'd love to hear from someone that has actually had the opportunity to use the machine.

The other option I've considered is a Powermatic PM2000 and adding a Jessem 7500 Master-R-Slide (as PM is still having a good promo for a few more days and prices are going up!).

Thanks again for any input.

[steve tompkins]

has anybody ben able to use one yet?
my old x-31 is a great machine but i need to be able to do a better job of cutting sheet goods. with a small shop this may be just the ticket.