Freehand Cuts on a Table Saw?

[Pat Germain]

I've owned my table saw for over ten years and never, not once, have I even been tempted to make a cut freehand. Yet, those TV home improvement shows on various channels repeatedly show people doing just that.

This morning I saw a guy on DIY's "Kitchen Renovations" cut the edges off the front of an old, assembled drawer. He did one side freehand and then the lady of the house did the other. It came out OK, but I kept asking myself, "Why?". It would have been much simpler to just use a fence for the long edges and a miter guage for the short cuts.

As I see it, one wrong move while making a freehand cut on a TS and, suddenly, the saw is a high-powered missile launcher. Or, at the very least, the saw becomes a wood mangler instead of a cutter.

Am I just being a wienie here? Is it silly to always use a fence or a miter guage when using a TS for simple cuts? While I always make safety paramount in my shop, I don't consider myself to be anal in this category. Perhaps I am. :confused:

[Mack Cameron]

Freehand cuts on a tablesaw should be made.............................NEVER!

[frank shic]

i like my ten fingers way too much to ever try freehanding a cut on the tablesaw! count me in as another weenie!

[Jim Becker]

I cringe at the though of anyone doing this...and shame on whomever does it on camera!

[Grant Davis]

Have you seen the commercial for "Design Stars"? A guy is cutting what looks to be about a 2'X6' piece of ply. He is holding the piece on the left side of the blade cutting it freehand and the piece to the right side of the blade kicks back and slams into the wall. I have to shake my head everytime I see that.

[Michael Schwartz]

Freehand cuts on a tablesaw should be made.............................NEVER!

Agreed 100%

There is not one operation on a tablesaw than can be done safely let alone accurately freehand.


If you wan't to freehand it use a skillsaw, or a bandsaw.


Theese DIY Shows are teaching horrible examples of Safety to innocent DIY's arround the world, who are just watching theese shows for insperation.

And even worse are all these candy colored cheap tools that look like they are strait off the shelf of the little tikes department at Toys R' US marketed to the DIY market .

Such as Ryobi, Skill, Craftsman, Store Brands, and worst of them all Black and Decker.

People watch theese shows, become inspired, and follow what they have seen with theese tools generating who knows how many close calls and ER vists.

In my shop there is zero tollerence for dangerous methods, and dangerous tools and setups Period. Even it it takes me longer, Woodworking has become too dangerous, to the point schools can no longer get insurance.

There is no such thing as chickening out of an operation with power equipment. If it doesn't feel conformable, or feel right, DON'T DO IT. Peer presure doesn't belong in the woodshop.

[Pat Germain]

Have you seen the commercial for "Design Stars"? A guy is cutting what looks to be about a 2'X6' piece of ply. He is holding the piece on the left side of the blade cutting it freehand and the piece to the right side of the blade kicks back and slams into the wall. I have to shake my head everytime I see that.

Yes, I did see that! I wasn't sure what the spot was for, but I did see the piece of ply take off and hit the wall. I wasn't aware he was cutting freehand.

Thanks for the reassurance, everyone. Nice to know my instincts are spot-on here.

Michael's point about school wood shops is interesting. I'm around a lot of school kids at my church and, as far as I know, none of them have ever taken wood shop. I assumed most schools don't even offer it any more with liability being a primary reason. I was teaching a group of middle schoolers how to make water rockets and within two seconds one kid cut himself with a small razor knife. Tools are completely foreign to these young ones.

I took wood shop only once when I was in the 7th grade in Phoenix. The teacher was an angry, mean old coot. He had a great shop with great tools and wood stacked to the ceiling. Too bad we weren't allowed to touch any of it. My first semester project was a "drafting folder" made of construction paper. My second semester project was a 1'x4" pine board which was square. :rolleyes: I took Home Economics the next year.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Just like everything else in life: You don't have to do every stupid thing you see somebody else do. The "little voice" is telling you it's dangerous so freehand on the TS is a big NO. And Jim is right that they should be ashamed that they actually filmed that and showed it.

[Art Mann]

"Am I just being a wienie here? Is it silly to always use a fence or a miter guage when using a TS for simple cuts? While I always make safety paramount in my shop, I don't consider myself to be anal in this category. Perhaps I am."

Absolutely not! My rule is, if it feels like an unsafe practice, I am not going to do it. OTOH, I have used a tablesaw for 30 years and have cut freehand on many occasions. I have experienced no adverse effects yet. The safety of doing this is operation is highly situation dependant. I would never advise anyone else to do this, nor would I depict it on a television program. Someone who is not familiar with the tablesaw and its hazards might mimic my behavior and get hurt.

[Bill Huber]

It is like so many other things you see on TV and in movies, its not right but there is no one telling these kids its wrong.

I really feel that a good shop class and a home making class should be a must for every kid that goes though school. How many kids come out of school and do not have any idea on how to handle a checkbook, fix their own dinner or change a light bulb....

Ok get back on the subject.....


I have never and never will do a freehand cut on a table saw, that is one of the quickest ways to get yourself of your saw screwed up really fast. In fact I really don't like cutting with a skill saw without some type of a guide to use.

[glenn bradley]

Just my own opinion but, what Mack said . . . times 10. The only mishap I've had that caught meat was free handing on a TS when I was a youngster and had no (or at least less of a) clue. My left thumb is a teeny bit short and if I press on the tip almost 45 years later, I can still feel a twang.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Do it all the time~!!

[Andrew Williams]

I'm glad I don't watch TV

I recommend the movie "Network"

[Dave Morris]

I make freehand cuts all the time on my tablesaw. Of course, the TS blade is retracted below the table, the power is off, and the piece of wood being cut makes sure the dozuki in my hand never comes anywhere near the tablesaw's surface.:D


In all seriousness, why would a TV program, much less a *DO IT YOURSELF* Network "how to" program, show such a dangerous way to (mis)use a tablesaw? What are they going to say-- "Fence removed for clarity." ? :eek:

Guess they never read that little disclaimer I've always seen on such shows about "following all safety rules and precautions when using your tools", or words to that effect.

[Jason Roehl]

Would any of you use a circular saw freehand?

Not much difference. I've done it. I'd do it again. I wouldn't encourage someone who is not comfortable with the maneuver to do it, though.

[David DeCristoforo]

"You don't have to do every stupid thing you see somebody else do. The "little voice" is telling you it's dangerous..."

I love this reply!!! Sure it can be done. But is it safe? Hell no it's not safe! If you do it, it should be with the awareness that it is extremely dangerous. And the suggestion that there is any similarity between freehand cutting on the TS and using a handheld circular saw is ludicrous at best. If you (not you specifically but you in general) don't understand this, it might be wise for you to take up basket weaving or some other pastime that does not involve the use of machinery that can maim you for life.

[Jason Roehl]

I've had many, many more kickbacks with a circular saw than a TS, occasionally even with a guide bar in place.

Using a TS freehand is not a guaranteed injury. Sure, it may be riskier than other woodworking processes, but it comes down to what level of risk you're willing to take. I've ridden motorcycles at high speed, used a chainsaw in odd positions, walked steep roofs with no harness, and used ladders in non-OSHA-compliant manners. Freehand cuts on a TS doesn't rate real high on my danger list. You just have to understand the forces at work...mental force diagrams are a good thing.

I have all my digits, never broken a bone, and the two times I left skin behind with my motorcycles, I was going pretty slow. My worst cuts have not been from power tools, but hand tools.

[David DeCristoforo]

"I've had many, many more kickbacks with a circular saw than a TS..."

And this makes freehand cutting on a table saw safe? Please explain how.

"Using a TS freehand is not a guaranteed injury."

Never said it was.

"Sure, it may be riskier than other woodworking processes, but it comes down to what level of risk you're willing to take."

Indeed. However, the fact that you are willing to take the risk does not make it any safer. Nor does it mean that others should be as willing as you to forgo common sense.

"Freehand cuts on a TS doesn't rate real high on my danger list. You just have to understand the forces at work...mental force diagrams are a good thing."

See above....

"I have all my digits, never broken a bone, and the two times I left skin behind with my motorcycles, I was going pretty slow."

I pray your good fortune continues.....

[Jason Roehl]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't believe that making freehand cuts on a TS is "forgoing common sense". I do believe that it is not near as dangerous as most posters in this thread (who have probably never done it) make it out to be.

BTW, I have not yet jumped out of an airplane, good or bad, though I had the chance. My wife and my pastor wouldn't let me. :D

[David DeCristoforo]

"Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree."

Agreed.....

"I don't believe that making freehand cuts on a TS is "forgoing common sense". I do believe that it is not near as dangerous as most posters in this thread (who have probably never done it) make it out to be."

I must strongly disagree with this and I hope that other readers of this thread will understand that this is NOT SAFE regardless of what we "agree to disagree" about.

"BTW, I have not yet jumped out of an airplane, good or bad, though I had the chance. My wife and my pastor wouldn't let me."

Maybe your wife and my pastor should read this thread.....

[Jason Roehl]

Define "safe". And, have you done it? I think most here would claim that 100mph (I've gone much faster) on a motorcycle is not "safe". On my last bike (sold 7-8 years ago), it was like driving a car at 50mph to me. I'm that comfortable with freehand cuts on a TS, but my senses are still on "high alert" every time I turn on the TS, regardless of the type of cut I am making. If we only did things that were "safe", we may as well turn the clock back 150 years, because we wouldn't have plane, trains and automobiles. And we sure as heck wouldn't have put anyone on the moon.

[Austin Grote]

I am amazed that there is a disagreement on this...Making a freehand cut on a tablesaw is asking for disaster.

[Jason Roehl]

Ok...how many lineal feet of wood would I have to run through a TS freehand without accident or injury before you consider it safe? I've seen/heard of more incidents on a TS when a fence was involved...

When I do it, I am cutting to a (straight) line on the board...

[Jim Becker]

Be nice, folks...

Jim
SMC Moderator

[Chuck Nickerson]

pull it off. After all, Sam Maloof bandsaws material while not keeping it flat on the table. However, Jason, freehanding a circular saw is safer than freehanding a table saw because the motor is much less powerful. If the cut gets 'sideways' the saw is much more likely to bind and stop than throw the piece or saw. DAMHIKT. My safety procedures were sloppier when I had a Shopsmith because the motor would bind and stop, not throw the piece. Those practices changed very quickly once I got my 3 hp Unisaw.

[Jason Roehl]

I am being nice, Jim. Just trying to make my point is all. I hold no ill will toward anyone here, doubt I ever will.

Chuck, I have had a circular saw almost ripped out of my hand, but you do raise a valid point about the motor power. I have not ripped freehand on a cabinet saw, only smaller ones, but I have never bound the motor doing so, either. Just follow the straight line...

[Eddie Darby]

I cringe when I see the BudWeiser commercial with a guy cutting a thick piece of warped wood, for a guitar, that isn't even flat on the table saw surface, no guards in sight. Maybe the commercial was for BudDumber? I guess it didn't take too many "takes" , because they dodged the (Coors) Bullet that time.

Safety First. Since you don't get a second chance.

[Mike Parzych]

I've done it on some occasions when there isn't another simple way to accomplish the task - even on 2.5 - 3" pcs. of walnut. All it takes is reasonable intellegence, understanding the cause of kickbacks, and the ability to listen. I go slow and listen to the sound the blade is making - you can clearly hear when the blade begins to bind - the cause of kickbacks.

[Gary Keedwell]

"Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree."

Agreed.....

"I don't believe that making freehand cuts on a TS is "forgoing common sense". I do believe that it is not near as dangerous as most posters in this thread (who have probably never done it) make it out to be."

I must strongly disagree with this and I hope that other readers of this thread will understand that this is NOT SAFE regardless of what we "agree to disagree" about.

"BTW, I have not yet jumped out of an airplane, good or bad, though I had the chance. My wife and my pastor wouldn't let me."

Maybe your wife and my pastor should read this thread.....
Please....Give it a rest. Everybody here knows what is safe and not safe. It is like preaching to a smoker. He's gonna do it just to spite everybody and he might like it anyways. Your not gonna stop them.
Gary K.

[Jason Roehl]

Gary, I don't smoke...except for the very rare cigar. :D

[Gary Keedwell]

Gary, I don't smoke...except for the very rare cigar. :D
Hey Jason....I was just trying to help you out a bit....conversation was a little lopsided....lol;)
Gary K.

[brian j waloweek]

i myself have made many cuts free hand on the table saw, but i never ripped a piece of soild wood free hand, only plywood. cross cuts are the usual cut i would make free hand, ply or soild wood. as a tinknocker who works off of 40 foot ladders and edges of roofs with power tools the advice i give to my apprentices is "if your not comfortable with it, don't do it" i would never advise someone to do something they are unsure of.
if you are nervous and uncomfortable, chances are you are going to get hurt. be safe no matter what you are doing ;)

[Mark Singer]

I do not recommend it ! Period! I have seen a lot of accidents. Why even think about it????

[Randall Davis]

I've had many, many more kickbacks with a circular saw than a TS, occasionally even with a guide bar in place.

Using a TS freehand is not a guaranteed injury. Sure, it may be riskier than other woodworking processes, but it comes down to what level of risk you're willing to take. I've ridden motorcycles at high speed, used a chainsaw in odd positions, walked steep roofs with no harness, and used ladders in non-OSHA-compliant manners. Freehand cuts on a TS doesn't rate real high on my danger list. You just have to understand the forces at work...mental force diagrams are a good thing.

I have all my digits, never broken a bone, and the two times I left skin behind with my motorcycles, I was going pretty slow. My worst cuts have not been from power tools, but hand tools.


OK LEFTY!!!

[Greg Funk]

When we had our house built a few years ago I watched several seasoned carpenters using a tablesaw freehand. They would use it to make 'pointed stakes' out of 2x4's amongst other things. I tried it once or twice without any problems but wouldn't recommend it. If you are afraid of an operation that is a good thing and you shoudn't do it. That doesn't mean that someone else that does it is crazy.

There are lots of activities that some would consider dangerous. Driving a high performance car on a track is about the most fun you can have with your clothes on but if you make a mistake the consequences can be severe. Whitewater kayaking is ridculously dangerous but that is what makes it fun.

If you want to be completely safe woodworking - sell all your tools and buy your furniture from someone else...

Greg

[Brad Naylor]

It's usually us Brits castigating you guys for what we would consider 'unsafe practices' in the workshop; no riving knives, guards etc...

In this instance the positions seem to be reversed, however.

I regularly make freehand cuts on the tablesaw when cutting sheet materials to odd angles - I'll saw to a line and then neaten it up on the planer or with a router and guide.

I do however, have a big panel saw with full sliding table and always have a riving knife fitted with crown guard attached, so the chance of any kickback is all but eliminated.

No way I'd try it on a small saw!

[Randal Stevenson]

In all seriousness, why would a TV program, much less a *DO IT YOURSELF* Network "how to" program, show such a dangerous way to (mis)use a tablesaw? What are they going to say-- "Fence removed for clarity." ? :eek:

Guess they never read that little disclaimer I've always seen on such shows about "following all safety rules and precautions when using your tools", or words to that effect.


While there is the argument here of those that do it verses those that don't, I want to bring out something else.
They had the homeowner do it also? It's one thing if your a professional, who knows and ignores or is paid to ignore the risks, but (you can see where I am going)..
So what happens to these shows when someone injures themselves and successfully sues? ARE THEY FINALLY going to ACTUALLY use CLEAR gaurds, so people realize, light travels through them and you don't need to see a spinning blade to see a final cut board?
Have they ever tried any of these shows with the guards on, and checked the ratings? Did they really drop?

There are lot's of ways to do things, and while you all are arguing them, I'd rather skip the argument, and start fixing a piece of the originating cause.

[David G Baker]

I have been doing free hand cuts for years and have never had a problem but since I read this thread I don't think I will continue the practice. I had no idea that it was dangerous.

[Pat Germain]

Thanks for the interesting discussion, everyone. I didn't intend to create a controversy. Yet, polite disagreements such as this help to keep things interesting. :)

It would seem cutting freehand on a TS is, as I suspected, less than optimal. I wouldn't do it, but I can see how people who do feel OK about it.

I think we could all agree TV shows should set a better example. Norm and David Marks may not be the best examples for safety, but I've never seen them do anything outright dangerous. Yet, the home improvement shows display such shennanigans on a regular basis.

[Mike Murray]

I had about 2500 sq ft of eng wood floor installed in my house a while back. There was a team of 3 or 4 guys that spent about 4 days on the install. Virtually every cut (including some pretty long rips) was made freehand on a table saw that was set up on my back patio. They also had a SCMS, but it was hardly ever used. They seemed to prefer the TS for routine cutoffs. They would even make curved cuts and used it to nibble out notches and other odd shapes. I was there the whole time and never saw a kickback or any other incident. I asked the foreman about it. He laughed and said something to the effect... "you couldn't afford it if we used a fence and miter gauge."

I would never do it, and probably 98% of SMC readers should never do it, and they certainly should never do it on a DIY TV show. But that doesn't mean there is no appropriate use of this technique in the real world.

Mike

[Jason Roehl]

Mike, that's actually one of the ways I did quite a few cuts. I had a glue-down engineered hardwood floor one time. I bought a jobsite TS for the job, and when I got it all out and set up, I realized the fence wasn't right. I didn't have time to go back to the store and mess with it, so I just drew lines on all the pieces I needed to cut to width (it's not really "ripping" when it's plywood, is it?), and cut them freehand. Piece of cake. I probably wouldn't do it if I needed to rip a board to a precise width, but on flooring, the outside edge gets covered, so it's not an issue.

[Chris Rosenberger]

There is a simple rule in woodworking & life in general.
Do not do anything that scares the icky stuff out of you.
This rule will apply differently to everyone.

[Mike Cutler]

While I understand Jason's position, I certainley don't advocate it.
In the grand scheme of things, I've seen things done with a circularsaw that were exponentially more dangerous than cutting freehand on a TS. Odd thing is that they are always done in a construction enviorment, under the guise of saving time, or money. Physical therapy clinics are full of these same like minded people. Lots of Workmens Comp lawyers are kept busy by these folks too, so let's all be honest here. Not everyone gets away with it. The folks in the construction trades have to chase the $$$. Unfortunately, it's a reality of the business.

The only thing that freehanding accomplishes is saving time, and money I guess. There is no cut I can think of on a TS that is made better freehanded.

[Art Mann]

There is no cut I can think of on a TS that is made better freehanded.

I can think of several. One application is to produce a straight edge on a piece of plywood that has no straight edges because of previous cuts. Another example has already been mentioned and is related to the first. Often times freehand cutting on a tablesaw is safer than using a circular saw for the same cut.

There are those people who have worked with wood and woodworking equipment long enough and are mechanically inclined enough to understand the forces at work and the potential risks involved. The risk of freehand cutting on a tablesaw is highly situation dependant. These people are capable of recognizing dangerous situations. The problem is there are other people who are not so experienced or mechanically inclined and are unaware of that fact. That is where the high risk comes in.

[Michael Schwartz]

I had about 2500 sq ft of eng wood floor installed in my house a while back. There was a team of 3 or 4 guys that spent about 4 days on the install. Virtually every cut (including some pretty long rips) was made freehand on a table saw that was set up on my back patio. They also had a SCMS, but it was hardly ever used. They seemed to prefer the TS for routine cutoffs. They would even make curved cuts and used it to nibble out notches and other odd shapes. I was there the whole time and never saw a kickback or any other incident. I asked the foreman about it. He laughed and said something to the effect... "you couldn't afford it if we used a fence and miter gauge."

I would never do it, and probably 98% of SMC readers should never do it, and they certainly should never do it on a DIY TV show. But that doesn't mean there is no appropriate use of this technique in the real world.

Mike

Souds like what happens when you give tile guys a tablesaw and tell them it is the same as a wet-saw :rolleyes:

[Gary Keedwell]

There is a simple rule in woodworking & life in general.
Do not do anything that scares the icky stuff out of you.
This rule will apply differently to everyone.

Amen;)

Gary K.

[Dave Morris]

Originally Posted by Mike Cutler http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=621797#post621797)
There is no cut I can think of on a TS that is made better freehanded.


Posted by Art:
<<< I can think of several. One application is to produce a straight edge on a piece of plywood that has no straight edges because of previous cuts. >>>

Art, are you saying that making this cut freehand is safer than tacking on a straight piece of plywood to the piece you were going to freehand and using that straight edge against the fence?


The initial post dealt with the subject of not using the fence while filming what, for all intents and purposes, is taken as an "instructional" video on a do-it-yourself show. Sure, it can be done, but most of us have probably used a table saw for far longer than the average person watching that show. Therein lies my biggest complaint with the show mentioned--- it portrays a technique of which the average person has virtually *no* idea of the inherent dangers involved. John Q. Public can easily watch that show, think he can do the same thing, and suffer a very serious (and very permanent) injury as a result. The show's producers should know better.

[Greg Funk]

I had about 2500 sq ft of eng wood floor installed in my house a while back. There was a team of 3 or 4 guys that spent about 4 days on the install. Virtually every cut (including some pretty long rips) was made freehand on a table saw that was set up on my back patio. They also had a SCMS, but it was hardly ever used. They seemed to prefer the TS for routine cutoffs. They would even make curved cuts and used it to nibble out notches and other odd shapes. I was there the whole time and never saw a kickback or any other incident. I asked the foreman about it. He laughed and said something to the effect... "you couldn't afford it if we used a fence and miter gauge."

I would never do it, and probably 98% of SMC readers should never do it, and they certainly should never do it on a DIY TV show. But that doesn't mean there is no appropriate use of this technique in the real world.

Mike
If you are freehanding crosscuts on 2 1/4 hardwood flooring I think it would be very difficult to get a kickback as the cut would be complete by the time the wood reached the part of the blade that is moving upwards.

[Art Mann]

Originally Posted by Mike Cutler http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=621797#post621797)
There is no cut I can think of on a TS that is made better freehanded.


Posted by Art:
<<< I can think of several. One application is to produce a straight edge on a piece of plywood that has no straight edges because of previous cuts. >>>

Art, are you saying that making this cut freehand is safer than tacking on a straight piece of plywood to the piece you were going to freehand and using that straight edge against the fence?


The initial post dealt with the subject of not using the fence while filming what, for all intents and purposes, is taken as an "instructional" video on a do-it-yourself show. Sure, it can be done, but most of us have probably used a table saw for far longer than the average person watching that show. Therein lies my biggest complaint with the show mentioned--- it portrays a technique of which the average person has virtually *no* idea of the inherent dangers involved. John Q. Public can easily watch that show, think he can do the same thing, and suffer a very serious (and very permanent) injury as a result. The show's producers should know better.

Hi Dave,

First to answer your question. No, I am not saying that. What I am saying is I have done that very operation about 10,000 times over 30 years and haven't had a kick-back yet. I have imperically determined it is a safe operation for me.

Now on to your other comment about the TV show. I agree with your idea. If you look back at all my posts on this thread you will see that is true. I would never advise anyone else to use a tablesaw freehand and I certainly wouldn't portray that on a TV show. I know my own capabilities but have serious doubts about most other people.

[Mike Murray]

If you are freehanding crosscuts on 2 1/4 hardwood flooring I think it would be very difficult to get a kickback as the cut would be complete by the time the wood reached the part of the blade that is moving upwards.

Just to clarify, it was 5" flooring.

[Dave Morris]

Okay, I'll give you that. We all do things that are dangerous, in various endeavors, but experience and skill give us enough control of the task at hand to achieve the results we desire without injury. It's a judgment call on our part, and in doing so means it's a risk we are willing to take at that particular moment. You'll probably never have a freehand accident from this moment forward due to your many years of experience (at least I sure hope you don't), but just think back to the first time you tried it. Scary what "could" have happened so very easily, no?

Me? I learned my lesson more than 15 years ago on a bottom-end POS Delta direct-drive table saw that grabbed a 1x6 out of my hands and launched it past my body and into the garage door. My fingers narrowly escaped the blade. I have never forgotten that experience, and you could say the door had a lasting "impression" of the incident as well. At that time, I was as wet behind the ears at using a table saw as a person could be, and a perfect example of any typical newbie watching DIY programs and wanting to follow their lead. Glad we both agree that such an example is best not broadcast to those ignorant of the risks who will assume it's a safe technique to imitate.

[John Lucas]

I have been one to poo-poo SawStaop because it only minmizes one area of table saw stupidity.
On Friday, on talk radio (local) the area of discussion was local welfare fraud. It seems that the day before the local TV station found 30 or so luxury cars confiscated from drug dealers who were also on the welfare scrolls. Really dumb. One person called in with his plight. It seems like he is (was) a hard working laborer who lost five fingers in a table saw accident and could not collect welfare. A shame. It came out painfully slow that it wasnt a work related accident but one in his woodshop after he and his buddies had too many "brewskis." His medical insurance picked up the ER bill but would not pay the 14,000 for fixing the hand. He went to welfare and was turned down. At this point he has left his $55,M job which he can still do in order to be a cause celeb against the welfare system. His claim is that there are so many not-worthy welfare recipients he would like to be collecting "cause he is non worthy as well."
I think what little IQ he might have had was stored in those fingers. I realize that this is marginally connected to TS safety but a rant is a rant.

[Carl Crout]

I let my dad use my Unisaw awhile back. He wanted to make some wedges. He freehanded them on my saw. This caused the arbor nut to loosen up. The blade started to wobble and actually became a wobbler type dado blade. How do I know? Because it cut a wide groove in the stock Delta throat plate..:(

[Mike Cutler]

I can think of several. One application is to produce a straight edge on a piece of plywood that has no straight edges because of previous cuts. Another example has already been mentioned and is related to the first. Often times freehand cutting on a tablesaw is safer than using a circular saw for the same cut.

There are those people who have worked with wood and woodworking equipment long enough and are mechanically inclined enough to understand the forces at work and the potential risks involved. The risk of freehand cutting on a tablesaw is highly situation dependant. These people are capable of recognizing dangerous situations. The problem is there are other people who are not so experienced or mechanically inclined and are unaware of that fact. That is where the high risk comes in.


Art.

With all due respect, I believe that example meets the criterial of saving time and money. Is the cut more accurate, or true? Can the same cut be made with a mechanical device, affixed to the saw, resulting in a more uniform, accurate, and repeatable outcome?
Even the circular saw can replicate the exact same result. It just takes an edge guide, and they've been around about one day less that the original circular saw. (Dino wasn't the originator of the edge guide system. His is just a more refined version).
I'm extremely mechanically adept, and am paid very well for that skillset. If freehanding could yield a better end result, I would consider it an option. Safety aside, It's still, the lesser quality option.

It sounds as if you are in the building trades, of some sort. I believe I made concessions to the building trades in my post, and the tradeoff between safety and an economic reality. My reference was actually to the quality of the end result. There is no real reason to freehand on the TS to make fine furniture, or do projects around the house. The materials involved are much less forgiving than plywood, and laminate flooring materials.

You are correct in your reference to the circular saw. I've seen some incredibly risky things done with one. I watched a guy cut wedges from a 2x4 that was 12" long. He cut corner to corner, on both edges, and then ripped it down the middle to make to make 4 perfect wedges. He did it in a respirator, with rubber gloves on, by hand. I don't know if I was more stunned, or envious.

[Ben Grunow]

As a full time carpenter I routinely make freehand cuts on the TS.

Mostly to cut a board to a scribed line or a snapped line to field fit a warped board or a straight board to a not-straight wall (ever see a door casing that is cut to meet a wall at an inside corner).

Sometimes small notches are completed with the TS (horns on window stool).

I would not recommend nor defend this as safe but for me it is as I am very experienced and carfeful to never place my hands at risk.

Seems to me that the type of cut needs to be defined here. Long cross cuts on wide planks and ply are suicide. Taking the edge off a 1x6 is cake but not for the beginner and not in the maual.

I am very conscious, here on SMC, of the difference between common job site practices and careful, furniture makers with time on their side. THis issue is the best example yet I have seen of the differing opinions on what is safe.

I agree freehand is not technically safe. However, this means to me that the lawyers hired to write the manual for the TS manufacturer would not recommend it. Freehanding really has no place in fine woodworking since a straight edge is usually what people are after and fences/jigs are the only way to truly get that.

Experienced people always have and always will make small freehand cuts on the TS in the field. I do and will. Dont if you are not comfortable. If you saw someone do it every day for 10 years you would come around though.

[Mark Carlson]

Pat,

Your not a wienie for not free handing. I'm self taught, so I bought a lot of reference books when I was starting. Kelly Mehlers, The "Table Saw Book" and Jim Tolpins, "Table Saw Magic". I just rechecked and both strongly state that a tablesaw should never be used for free hand cuts.

~mark

[Art Mann]

It sounds as if you are in the building trades, of some sort.


Actually, I am an engineer. I gave up woodworking as an occupation. I discovered many years ago that poverty was not my favorite lifestyle. I am just a hack carpenter and half a$$ cabinet maker who only does jobs for fun and to support my hobby. I am spending time here and on other message boards and in my shop trying to learn how to build furniture.

Somebody or other mentioned that freehand sawing on a tablesaw doesn't have much application in furniture building. From what little I know, I would certainly agree.

[Don Bullock]

I've owned my table saw for over ten years and never, not once, have I even been tempted to make a cut freehand. Yet, those TV home improvement shows on various channels repeatedly show people doing just that.
...:confused:

That's what I bought a band saw for.:eek:

[Mike Cutler]

Actually, I am an engineer. I gave up woodworking as an occupation. I discovered many years ago that poverty was not my favorite lifestyle. I am just a hack carpenter and half a$$ cabinet maker who only does jobs for fun and to support my hobby. I am spending time here and on other message boards and in my shop trying to learn how to build furniture.

Somebody or other mentioned that freehand sawing on a tablesaw doesn't have much application in furniture building. From what little I know, I would certainly agree.

I'll let ya' in on a secret. We were taught that machines would save time, right? It's a lie! Handtools will save time and bail you out of an error much faster than a machine. It's taken me about 30 years to learn this.;)

For the record though. I've done more damage to my hands over the years with chisels than any machine.:eek: Oops, was I supposed to say that.:o

[Greg Crawford]

I've seen one guy do it in person. He has also contributed several chunks of flesh to the dust collector. Personally, I would never do it. I too have a band saw for that.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

[...] And this makes freehand cutting on a table saw safe? Please explain how.

[...]
Never said it was.

[...]

Indeed. However, the fact that you are willing to take the risk does not make it any safer. Nor does it mean that others should be as willing as you to forgo common sense.

[...]
See above....

[...]
I pray your good fortune continues.....

You seem awfully angry. Why?

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

When I do it, I am cutting to a (straight) line on the board...

Me too and usually not a terribly big one. I don't think I've freehanded more than half a dozen 4-foot cuts on plywood when in the middle of a construction project on my old TS. I have run a full 8-foot rip a few times just following a line but those are the exceptions not the rule.
Mostly though it's short cuts on a piece that's easy to manage.

[Ron Blaise]

But as God is my witness, it's not a table saw. You guys can discuss "pro & con" all you want, it still ain't and never will be safe to saw freehand on a tablesaw. I find it difficult to believe there is an argument it at all. We have some rather famous last words heard all too frequently down here; "watch is" :D

[Mike Parzych]

Car racing, sky-diving, and crab fishing aren't safe either. Just driving down the freeway isn't safe either.

Like many have said, if it scares you, you probably shouldn't do it. I've done it many times and am just very cautious when I do.

And I'm sure this thread won't change anyone's mind, which ever side of the fence they're on.

[Matt Day]

I mostly agree with what Jason is saying. But I must emphasize what Brian said, "if your not comfortable with it, don't do it." Have the skill, experience, and comfort to do something has more to do with how safe it is than whether or not it is an OSHA approved practice; IMHO.

For example, a friend of mine wanted to replace a piece of flashing on her roof, but was uncomfortable doing it herself at the top of a ladder swinging a hammer. She knew it could be dangerous, so she called and asked me to help her out since I am comfortable doing it. It's much safer for me to do it since I've "been there, done that" than for her to do it.

Another example, motorcycles. Motorcycles are inherintaly more dangerous than cars, so there is an implied risk when you ride one. But a veteran rider who's done track days, understands the limits and capabilities of his machine, and is composed under pressure, is much safer than a squid with shorts and a short sleeved shirt who just wants to impress his friends.

Same thing goes for the TS. If you're a DIY'er who has very little if any experience with the TS it's a much more dangerous tool than for someone who's been a contractor for a decade. For the DIY show to not stress proper safety measures is a major no-no; and from a legal standpoint that's probably a BIG liability and lawsuit waiting to happen.

That all being said, if you're experienced at using the tablesaw, or riding a motorcycle, you'll usually take the necessary safety measures to stay intact.

[Andrew Williams]

I am personally insulted when I hear words to the effect that being safe or cautious is something for amateurs. If you ever, even temporarily, lose the use of an important part of your body then you would understand that expediency does not trump caution, just as it does not trump virtue. Hopefully it would not require this type of experience to learn.

[Greg Funk]

I am personally insulted when I hear words to the effect that being safe or cautious is something for amateurs. If you ever, even temporarily, lose the use of an important part of your body then you would understand that expediency does not trump caution, just as it does not trump virtue. Hopefully it would not require this type of experience to learn.
Don't be insulted. Safety is a relative term not an absolute one. The degree of risk you are willing to assume dicates the activities you can undertake. Someone who is inexperienced in any activity should behave differently than an experienced person who has a better understanding of possible dangers.

Face it, woodworking is not a particularly 'safe' hobby. That's why we don't let kids play in our shops unsupervised. A 120 lb women who has never touched a chainsaw would have to use very different procedures than a 200 lb lumberjack who has been falling trees all his life. The same principles apply in using a tablesaw.

Greg

[Steve Rowe]

I am truly shocked by the logic (or the lack thereof) behind some of these posts and attitudes toward safety. It sounds to me like there are a number of accidents just waiting to happen. Just because you have done something many times before and didn't get hurt, doesn't make the act safe. I wonder if the video link below could be considered a free hand cut? WARNING - If you have a weak stomach, do not watch.

http://www.break.com/index/minor-tablesaw-accident1.html

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

This caused the arbor nut to loosen up. The blade started to wobble and actually became a wobbler type dado blade.

I am guessing that something else caused the blade to get free. The nut tightens as the blade spins. It's pretty difficult to get around that.


I have a power brake on my engine so I have a three hole pattern with two little pins on my saw arbor to prevent blade loosening.

[Brian Penning]

Sorry, video is fake. Made the same mistake meself.


I am truly shocked by the logic (or the lack thereof) behind some of these posts and attitudes toward safety. It sounds to me like there are a number of accidents just waiting to happen. Just because you have done something many times before and didn't get hurt, doesn't make the act safe. I wonder if the video link below could be considered a free hand cut? WARNING - If you have a weak stomach, do not watch.

http://www.break.com/index/minor-tablesaw-accident1.html

[Gary Keedwell]

And ..not a very good fake at that.:cool: "Shocked" "Insulted" Please, I think doth protest too much!!!
This thread is getting away from the pro's and con's of free-handing on the TS. I think that we can have a conversation...but please ...no sermons:(

Gary K.

[David DeCristoforo]

...And I'm sure this thread won't change anyone's mind, which ever side of the fence they're on..."

You are probably correct. I'm amazed that this is still being debated. But consider this. How many times have you ripped a board and had the two sides of the board pinch together? If this happens when you are freehand cutting, that seems like a pretty big mozza ball to have hanging out there....

I don't think I would say that freehand cutting should never be attempted. But I do take issue with ignoring the dangers involved and i really take issue with suggesting that there is no danger and especially with suggesting this to a novice.

I always wonder about the guy who says "I been doin it for years and I ain't never had any problems". How does this make it safe? And if you have made the mistake of thinking that because you have been lucky enough to avoid injury, there is no longer any danger, I can only pray for you because you are at much more risk than if you understood just how much danger you are in.

Imagine the previously mentioned scenario, with you hanging onto one end of the board and the other in the grips of a 3-5 HP saw motor. Not dangerous? Remember what happened to that alligator guy? It only takes once and it can happen before you even know it. The odds of you not getting hurt do not decrease just because you have managed to pull it off before. It's like tossing a coin. The odds are the same on every toss. You want to take the risk? Fine. But don't be suggesting that it's not dangerous. Some other fool might listen to you and not be so lucky.

[Dino Makropoulos]

...And I'm sure this thread won't change anyone's mind, which ever side of the fence they're on..."

You are probably correct. I'm amazed that this is still being debated. But consider this. How many times have you ripped a board and had the two sides of the board pinch together? If this happens when you are freehand cutting, that seems like a pretty big mozza ball to have hanging out there....

I don't think I would say that freehand cutting should never be attempted. But I do take issue with ignoring the dangers involved and i really take issue with suggesting that there is no danger and especially with suggesting this to a novice.

I always wonder about the guy who says "I been doin it for years and I anin't never had any problems". How does this make it safe? And if you have made the mistake of thinking that because you have been lucky enough to avoid injury, there is no longer any danger, I can only pray for you because you are at much more risk than if you understood just how much danger you are in.

Imagine the previously mentioned scenario, with you hanging onto one end of the board and the other in the grips of a 3-5 HP saw motor. Not dangerous? Remember what happened to that alligator guy? It only takes once and it can happen before you even know it. The odds of you not getting hurt do not decrease just because you have managed to pull it off before. It's like tossing a coin. The odds are the same on every toss. You want to take the risk? Fine. But don't be suggesting that it's not dangerous. Some other fool might listen to you and not be so lucky.

AMEN!
Imagine a bee landing in your face while freehanding?:rolleyes:
Imagine a good looking lady walking across the street the same time.:D

Now... Imagine how nice life can be without few fingers.:eek: :mad:


I Don't like to repeat others...But this time I will. ;)
You want to take the risk? Fine. But don't be suggesting that it's not dangerous. Some other fool might listen to you and not be so lucky

[Gary Keedwell]

Gee David, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel about it.:rolleyes: :D

"Alligator Guy?" Wow, how did he get into this discussion? Was he a woodworker too?
Seriously, do you think that will stop anybody? Sharks eat people too, does that mean we stay away from the water?
I was an Ironworker making a living putting up skyscrapers in Boston. Should I have stopped putting up steel because someone in the past fell to his death? Of course not.
A soldier is fighting in a combat zone...should he stop soldiering because someone bit the dust? Of course not.
I know these are extreme cases, but the fact is, no amount of sermonizing is going to stop people from doing what they think is safe or necessary.
I do believe the "how to" shows should "show" safe methods for the general public, but lets be serious....With these crazy movies, TV shows You Tube on line and all the other stuff that the public sees every day.....how in the world are we going to "police" all this dangerous things that people see all the time?>
Gary K. PS. sorry for the long post:o

[Rick Williams]

Is this the Evel Knevel thread...No....Ok, carry on.

[David DeCristoforo]

"Alligator Guy?" Wow, how did he get into this discussion? Was he a woodworker too?"

I don't think so but maybe if he had been he would have spent less time messing around with alligators!

"Seriously, do you think that will stop anybody?"

Of course not....

"Sharks eat people too, does that mean we stay away from the water?"

Well what if you knew there was a shark ? Would you jump in anyway? Some guys would and without a second thought. So would you be a "weenie" if you did not? All I'm saying is don't tell people something is safe when it's not. I repeat...if you want to do it...go for it. If you want to swim with sharks...go for that too. But at least don't put another person (who might not understand the risks) in harm's way by telling them it's "perfectly safe" when it's not.

[Ken Mutch]

Yup, it has been an interesting thread with a lot of emotions, brave stories, etc., but unfortunately little explanation.
I believe I understand the dangers of kick-backs when using a fence especially without a riving knife or when cutting hard wood (especially smallish bits) freehand. What I don't understand, is what is the danger of free handing larger sheet boards to a line.
Can some kind soul please explain to a relatively newby.
Thank,
Ken

[Per Swenson]

Sorta Ken,

I think Cliff said only small pieces...

Ok, remember that Archimedes fella?

Give me a lever long enough etc....

Well, pass a large piece in a table saw with out a guide and basically

any little movement will act like the lever principle on the blade,

except the motor and blade are stronger then you and the lever. You move.

Me? I never free hand or play Russian roulette with a automatic.

Per

[Rob Millard]

Despite an almost deathly fear of the table saw, I have made a few free hand cuts; mostly to cope moldings. I see a lot of dangerous stuff on TV. My favorite is when Suzy Phillips points the nail gun right at Scott.
Rob Millard

[Greg Funk]

Yup, it has been an interesting thread with a lot of emotions, brave stories, etc., but unfortunately little explanation.
I believe I understand the dangers of kick-backs when using a fence especially without a riving knife or when cutting hard wood (especially smallish bits) freehand. What I don't understand, is what is the danger of free handing larger sheet boards to a line.
Can some kind soul please explain to a relatively newby.
Thank,
Ken
Ken,

Kickbacks generally occur when the teeth at the top of the blade get a grip on the wood. The teeth on the top of the blade are travelling a little over 100MPH toward you. If you can keep the wood down on the table you won't have a problem because the forces of the blade are mostly down into the table. If you are freehanding a sheet of plywood and you don't push the wood perfectly straight it is possible that the teeth on the back of the blade will lift the wood. Once this starts the blade can quickly grab the wood and all of the energy stored in the rotating motor will be converted into launching a projectile towards you at 100+MPH.

Greg

[David DeCristoforo]

"I see a lot of dangerous stuff on TV. My favorite is when Suzy Phillips points the nail gun right at Scott."

At which point, were I Scott, I would say something to the effect of "You point that thing at me one more time and you're fired...." Scheech! Who are these people????

[Andrew Williams]

The word isn't "fired", it's "divorced" ;)

[David DeCristoforo]

"The word isn't "fired", it's "divorced"....."

Ooooo.... Now that's a "sticky wicket"....

[Austin Grote]

I just saw an advertisement for a show called Design Star on TV, they show a guy feeding a piece of plywood (much wider than it is long) into the tablesaw, instead of using a crosscut sled he is using the fence, holding the wood with both hands on the left side of the blade, and it launches the piece out of the saw. There appears to be something behind the saw to stop the flying wood, as if the whole thing were staged...But that is what these so called home improvement shows have degenerated into, so called experts goofing around and acting like idiots if front of the camera.

[Erik Christensen]

To me this issue is like many of life’s choices – the risk vs benefit analysis. Before you embark on an activity, if you stop to think about if you should do it or not, you mentally weigh the cost (or in this case risk) against the benefit to be gained.

First let’s look at risk. Risk is a combination of probability of an event occurring times the consequences if it happens. For example – if I put a 20’ 4x4 on the ground and said I’d give 100$ to walk end to end you’d probably take my money; but if the same 4x4 was between 2 10 story buildings you might not. Did the probability of falling off the 4x4 change? No – but the consequences sure did. Same example – between 2 buildings but now the 4x4 is an 8’ wide walk-way with safety railings – still serious consequences but probability now so low you take my money again.

In the example under discussion, freehand cuts on a table saw, it seems most agree that the probability of something bad would occur is relatively low but the consequences (kickback or blade contact) could be severe.

Next we examine the benefit. Are you a hobbyist? Do you do this for fun and enjoyment? If yes, what benefit do you gain from taking a shortcut that puts you at risk? You just get to do less of your hobby tonight. A contractor is different – you make your living at this and taking too much time means the difference between profit & loss. You have a financial motive to operate efficiently even if it means assuming more risk.

Nobody on this issue is “right” or “wrong”. I don’t enjoy riding a motorcycle as much at 55 as I did at 25 – my personal level of acceptable risk has changed. There are a lot of things that I did a decade or 2 ago that I don’t do any more – was I wrong then and right now? – nope I just make different choices as my values have changed.

Everyone has the right in this free society to make their own decisions and this is an example of that. If I think you are a tad foolish for wanting to make freehand cuts on a table saw I might try to talk you into changing your ways but I defend vehemently your right to do so.

Sorry for the long winded post but I am at work and avoiding doing something my boss wants done… so when he walks by my office checking up on me and sees me busily typing he is happy – heh heh :D :D :D

[David DeCristoforo]

"A contractor is different – you make your living at this and taking too much time means the difference between profit & loss..."

Right...and everyone knows contractors don't need all those extra body parts anyway. One finger is usually all that's needed.....

[Mike Parzych]

...And I'm sure this thread won't change anyone's mind, which ever side of the fence they're on..."

You are probably correct. I'm amazed that this is still being debated. But consider this. How many times have you ripped a board and had the two sides of the board pinch together? If this happens when you are freehand cutting, that seems like a pretty big mozza ball to have hanging out there....


OK....I'll really blow your hair back now. Last time I freehanded it was on a piece of 10/4 walnut limb section about 3' long that was still barked on both edges. Quite frankly I didn't feel like taking the time straight edging and circular sawing it, and burning the bejesus out of the edges. I also did it knowing that walnut rarely closes in on a cut, that the piece was heavy enough that it wouldn't likely launch itself like a Cruise missle, and that I could easily detect the slightest sound of the blade binding if I didn't keep the cut dead straight. And as insurance I knew that if things got out of whack the motor would stall and trip the breaker.

Call me stupid, mentally defective, scold me, whatever - I really don't care. Look...I do this for a living and feel I'm experienced enough to do things the hobbiest wouldn't try. And as far as risk - since it's my livelyhood I've got a lot more at stake than the hobbiest if I've got to search the shop for my fingers or limbs.

And I clearly have never suggested that anyone do what I do, much less a novice. "Never try this at home!"

Someone mentioned riding a motorcycle. Personally I can think of nothing more insane than riding along at 70mph, with nothing more to protect you from 4000 lb. automobiles possibly driven by drunks, than some thin leather. But will I advise him against it - absolutely not. He knows what he's doing and has every right to pursue his hobby without comment from an outright chicken like me.

[Jason Roehl]

But, David, you seem to be purveying the argument that an accident WILL occur, regardless of skill level. If I went and hopped on a BMX bike, I could maybe pop some wheelies and do a few bunny hops--because my skill level is low. No way would I try back flips like the pro tricksters do--who have a much higher skill level.

Besides, with the way I stand and such when I cut something freehand, there is virtually zero risk of me touching the blade in any way, shape or form. Most of the time, I stand such that my arms at full extension won't let my fingertips reach the blade. The thought process for anything I do on the tablesaw includes a strong consideration of, "What would happen if this piece of wood were suddenly not there?" If you're pushing strongly and quickly toward the blade and the wood slipped out...

Besides, without a fence, you are eliminating one potential trap zone.

My challenge has still not been answered...how many lineal feet of freehand ripping without an incident would I have to accomplish before it was considered safe? 100? 1000? 1,000,000?

[Gary Keedwell]

Erik & Mike...I agree with almost all you two said.

David......:( Lighten up, guy!:)

Gary K.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

My challenge has still not been answered...how many lineal feet of freehand ripping without an incident would I have to accomplish before it was considered safe? 100? 1000? 1,000,000?

It can't be answered. After all: Table saws, band saws, chisels, planers, jointers, screw drivers, hammers, razor knives, guns are all inherently unsafe and any one who'd step in the same room with one is barking mad.

You'll put your eye out kid~!!

.

[Gary Keedwell]

It can't be answered. After all: Table saws, band saws, chisels, planers, jointers, screw drivers, hammers, razor knives, guns are all inherently unsafe and any one who'd step in the same room with one is barking mad.

You'll put your eye out kid~!!

.
:D :D :D :rolleyes:

Gary K.

[David DeCristoforo]

The point is: There is no such thing as a "safe" tool or an "unsafe tool". It's how you use the tool that determines how safe you are. I never said an accident will occur. Re-read my posts...what I said is that freehand cutting on a table saw is dangerous. Nothing more and nothing less. I don't give a rat's a$$ how many feet of lumber you cut. You can cut a million feet and the danger on the last foot is going to be the same as on the first. And this is the last I have to say about it. Let's move on.....

[Daniel Mercuro]

I haven't read all of the posts (7 PAGES!),but has anyone said sometimes yes,sometimes no? I have cut plywood on a 8 in. contractor saw many times w/o a fence.I wouldn't cut solid wood,though.Inthe shop,Iwould never cut anything fenceless because of kick back potential.As for losing fingers,that can't happen if you don't let them past the blade.Recenly, a very talented co-worker of mine did some "free hand" cuts on a shop saw.I and my the rest of my shopmates all agreed it should not be done again by anyone in our shop.3&5 h.p. shop saws can kill you with a good kickback(I've seen broken ribs & wrists). Still, little ten-amp job site saws can be operated safely w/o a fence for cutting sheet goods to a line.In fact it is commen practice in city and boat work.;)

[Mark Carlson]

This post kept my interest because I was hoping someone would touch on why they cut free hand. Is it a speed thing? There in a hurry and dont want to align a rip fence or setup a miter guage. The job site saw has a lousy fence and someone walked off with the miter guage? They dont have a straight edge and circular saw handy? No jigsaw? There on a job site and thats the way things are done? No way to rig up a sled to carry an irregular piece of wood thru the blade using the rip fence? The shear thrill of it?

No one claimed that the free hand cut gave a better quality cut or the operation they were performing could only be done free hand so there has to be some reason to do it. Just curious.

~mark

[Mike Parzych]

In the situation I described the table saw actually delivered a better cut. The walnut had been chain sawed off a tree felled at a road widening project. If I'd run a circular saw with fewer teeth than the TS over that surface it would have pitched left and right and resulted in a miserable burned cut. The irregular barked edges made a fenced cut impossible.

I do it when it's the best method, saves time, and I know I can do it with little risk.

[Tony Haukap]

The point is: There is no such thing as a &quot;safe&quot; tool or an &quot;unsafe tool&quot;. Reminds me of this sign...

[Jason Roehl]

I do it when I need to cut a piece of flooring with a slight taper. Yes folks, there are houses built without plumb, level and square walls. It's hard to use a taper jig with a 4-5' long piece of flooring. It's much easier to just draw a line on the face of the piece and cut to it. The quality of the cut doesn't matter, because it goes next to the wall where it will be covered by base trim or shoe moulding.