MM-16 Band Saw - Initial Report

[Jim Becker]

Although I plan on a full review of the MM-16 after getting some experience with it, here are my initial impressions after final cleaning through the first cut.

Highlights

1) Solid, heavy and extremely well built
2) Very quiet when running...the cyclone in the closet is louder than the saw's ambient noise level
3) Many safety features that do not appear on non-Euro design saws, such as micro-switches that turn off the machine if the doors get opened during operation, a foot brake to quickly remove power and stop the blade motion cold, an adjustable guard under the table that extends up from the lower door to insure that the blade is shielded, two-step "on" process and a telescoping upper blade guard that adjusts automatically with height adjustments
4) Quick tensioning with little effort
5) Rack and pinion height adjustment
6) Very large cast iron table at a more comfortable height than my previous 14" saw...about 36" off the floor which is perfect for resawing
7) Heavy cast iron fence that is absolutely true to the table
8) All necessary tools for adjustment are included with the machine and are of good quality. These include 5 metric wrenches from 10mm up to 19mm, a 19mm socket on a foot long bar and 6 different metric allen wrenches in a nice plastic case
9) One hour after posting on the Mini Max Yahoo forum about two issues I was having, I received a call from an Mini Max associate out on the left coast. After speaking with him for a few minutes, he immediately was typing an email to their parts person for action first thing on Monday morning to replace one defective item, a discolored plastic guard and a missing fastener. Remember, this was Saturday night!

Things that need work

1) The manual...a new version is almost "coming off the presses" as we speak as it's in final editing. But this one was still better than the FS-350 manuals!
2) The plastic table insert supplied with the saw is proving difficult to level. Mini Max is sending a replacement out on Monday
3) The telescoping guard is "sticking" slightly, but I am assured that it should settle down after a little use.
4) The mobility kit wheels in the rear raise the back of the machine up off the floor, resulting in a leveling issue. The solution was to put a piece of 3/4" plywood under the machine while it was raised with the tommy bar and letting that wood support the machine. The added benefit is the slight cushion that the wood provides reducing noise transfer to the floor...not that there is much noise.
5) The stick on graphics are chintzy...for what this equipment costs, they could at least badge as nice as Grizzly does. But the paint is excellent on the machine

Pictures

1) Final cleaning of various assemblies with mineral spirits
2) The first cut...before checking the table alignment...was a 1/16" slice off of an 8" wide mahogany board. The cut is smooth and true, with only a slight difference in thickness top to bottom due to the needed table adjustment to be perpendicular to the blade.
3) View of the business end of this saw with the 1" carbide resawing blade...very sharp...
4) The saw in it's temporary location until I run a 240v circuit to where it will be living "normally"

[Bob Marino]

Hey Jim,

Nice saw...to say the least. I got to put my hands on one at the Somerset show and it is one solid saw.:D
Honest, thoughtful posting of initial impressions and the more comprehensive reviews is important, or should be important, to tool manufactures in improving their product, besides being a great benefit and resource for the rest of we consumers.
In the next week or so, I hope to post similarly about the Agazanni, but without even using my saw, I do agree with you about those stickers, :eek: what's up with that?

Bob

[John Miliunas]

Good for you, Jim! Thanks for the overview. Looks to be a wonderful unit and sounds as though MM is all over the Customer Service end of things. Nice that they're the ones contacting you over issues, rather than you having to harass them! Speaks well of the company, I'd say. Good luck with it and enjoy! :cool:

[scott spencer]

Hi Jim - Nice saw and nice overview....thanks for posting it.

Last fall, fellow "creeker" Tom Pritchard bought an MM16 and I've gotten to see it up close and personal. I haven't picked up on the subtle "nuances" that you've listed, but it's not hard to notice how extremely well built and functional that machine is.

Hope all goes well....enjoy.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Jim, I didn't like the European style mobility kit. You need room in front of the saw to use the handle and I didn't have a place near the saw to hang it. I put it on a shop fox base. and it works great. The only issue I have is with the fence. Seems like I have to adjust it nearly every time I use it.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, I didn't like the European style mobility kit. You need room in front of the saw to use the handle and I didn't have a place near the saw to hang it. I put it on a shop fox base. and it works great.

The mobility kit as provided wouldn't have been my first choice design-wise either, but it was included in the package price. Since I will not be moving the tool often, I'm not worried about it, but if I was, I'd choose a different type of mobile base for sure.


The only issue I have is with the fence. Seems like I have to adjust it nearly every time I use it.

My fence is dead-on, perfectly flat and perfectly parallel to the miter slot. The only thing I may do is put a little UMHW tape on the bottom to insure it doesn't scratch the table. But it's well ground and doesn't seem to mark it at present, especially with the coat of wax I have on the table.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Jim,
Looks great! I notice some of the parts are very similiar to my Agazzani. So what kind of blades did you get? I have had good success with Lennox. I have both the carbide resaw blade and their bimetal blade which I use for my regular cutting. You will notice the tension on the blades will be a more "feel" aproach.

[Jim Becker]

So what kind of blades did you get? I have had good success with Lennox. I have both the carbide resaw blade and their bimetal blade which I use for my regular cutting. You will notice the tension on the blades will be a more "feel" aproach.

The saw package came with a 1" Lenox carbide blade for resawing and a 1/4" blade accidentally was slid into the parts box. I also have an assortment of Timberwolf blades in "inventory" so I'm set for whatever needs cut. A 1/2" TW AS will probably stay on the saw most of the time as that's what I use for dealing with turning blanks. But I have to say, that 1" carbide leaves a finish almost as smooth as my table saw. I may invest in a few more of those in narrower widths as soon as Lenox has the new, more flexible formula actually shipping. (The wide carbide blades get stressed a lot by machines with this small of a wheel as as such shouldn't be left on the machine unless you are really using them)

[Paul B. Cresti]

The saw package came with a 1" Lenox carbide blade for resawing and a 1/4" blade accidentally was slid into the parts box. I also have an assortment of Timberwolf blades in "inventory" so I'm set for whatever needs cut. A 1/2" TW AS will probably stay on the saw most of the time as that's what I use for dealing with turning blanks. But I have to say, that 1" carbide leaves a finish almost as smooth as my table saw. I may invest in a few more of those in narrower widths as soon as Lenox has the new, more flexible formula actually shipping. (The wide carbide blades get stressed a lot by machines with this small of a wheel as as such shouldn't be left on the machine unless you are really using them)
Jim,
I have been having a hard time posting lately as my computer is on the fritz. I was not able to reply to your other message a couple of weeks ago. After I have my shop up and running we should get together. Have you ever been to Bryan's Lumber over there in PA?

[Jim Becker]

After I have my shop up and running we should get together.

Absolutely.



Have you ever been to Bryan's Lumber over there in PA?

I rarely buy from Bryant even though it's only about 5 miles...too much trouble to find stuff for matching, etc., although a buck a foot is a nice deal. I do buy thick ash there for spindles and the like. Bryant's a nice fellow, but somewhat hap-hazzard in the "organization" department! (Dominic Greco recently scored some nice box elder from him for turning, however...)

Most of my lumber that I purchase comes from Simmie Agin Sr just outside Lambertville. Really high quality air-dried, furniture grade lumber for very reasonable prices. ($2.50-3.00 for cherry for example) 609-397-1822...you need to make an appointment as it's not a "retail" business in the sense of regular hours. I usually go there on a Saturday morning when I need something. Simmie's been in the business for about 45 years and is a "unique" fellow...but he knows how to cut and dry lumber. Cash only, BTW...

Figured or non-domestics I buy from Hearne Hardwoods in Oxford PA or if I need something quicker, Willard Brothers in Trenton. But lately, I've been working with all the poplar and walnut I have off the property...it's been drying for 4 years and is very nice to work with.

[John Renzetti]

hi Jim, Nice review of the MM16. Here's an idea for the mobility kit,not sure if it will work on the MM16. Run another axil and wheels in the front and then use those 4 threaded holes on the top of the base to put those leveling bolts. This way you just roll it out from the wall, and then tighten the bolts to get the machine secured on the floor. I did this with my bandsaw, it's a bit bigger than the MM16 and it works well. The mobility kit on this one is designed with the two sets of wheels, but you might be able to do the same thing on the MM16.
I just don't like putting a heavy tall machine on a moblile base. They just don't feel secure enough for me.
If you head down to Hearne's let me know and stop by for I visit. I'm in Chadds Ford, you probably go right by the intersection of rte 1 and 202.
Take care,
John




I rarely buy from Bryant even though it's only about 5 miles...too much trouble to find stuff for matching, etc., although a buck a foot is a nice deal. I do buy thick ash there for spindles and the like. Bryant's a nice fellow, but somewhat hap-hazzard in the "organization" department! (Dominic Greco recently scored some nice box elder from him for turning, however...)

Most of my lumber that I purchase comes from Simmie Agin Sr just outside Lambertville. Really high quality air-dried, furniture grade lumber for very reasonable prices. ($2.50-3.00 for cherry for example) 609-397-1822...you need to make an appointment as it's not a "retail" business in the sense of regular hours. I usually go there on a Saturday morning when I need something. Simmie's been in the business for about 45 years and is a "unique" fellow...but he knows how to cut and dry lumber. Cash only, BTW...

Figured or non-domestics I buy from Hearne Hardwoods in Oxford PA or if I need something quicker, Willard Brothers in Trenton. But lately, I've been working with all the poplar and walnut I have off the property...it's been drying for 4 years and is very nice to work with.[/QUOTE]

[Stan Smith]

Hi Jim:

I just read your post, Congratulations to us, since I just got my 16MM set up, too. I just ran out to the shop to check my toolkit. I only got 2 allen wrenches with mine, but I got a nice pushstick. I also got 3 blades, a 1/4", 1/2" 3 raker, and a 1".

I did a short resaw with the 1/2" blade and there were very few marks. I took them off with 1 light pass in the drum sander. Fence worked great for the resaw, too, with no adj. for blade drift. There is a bolt on the fence that can be loosened to make blade drift adjustment. Works just fine, too.

I recently did a writeup on setting up the saw on the WWA Exchange forum, if anyone wants to read it.

As to the mobile base, I like it just fine. I have been using a similar system for my machines for years except they are homemade--even for a lathe. I ran into the same problem with the wheels when leveling myself. My shop floor is sloped too much. I too had to raise it a little with some thin plywood. While I was leveling with the bolts, I loosened the wheel bolts allowing the saw to touch the floor. Then I retightened them after leveling.

I had a 14" Jet bandsaw and the Minimax is a lot more saw than the Jet. I wish I had gotten one sooner.

Stan

[Jim Becker]

I just read your post, Congratulations to us, since I just got my 16MM set up, too. I just ran out to the shop to check my toolkit. I only got 2 allen wrenches with mine, but I got a nice pushstick.

You should have one allen wrench for each size of metric fastener requiring them on the saw. Give Grant a call to get the missing items replaced...this vendor is incredible relative to customer service and will take care of you quickly.

I did get the push stick, but forgot to mention it. I don't like that style for the table saw, but it's just the ticket for the last part of a cut on the bandsaw. The blades included (or not) depend on the deal you made or promotion in force. In my case, since my saw was going to be used for show and tell (with the top wheel removed) at the show, MM was nice to me with the carbide blade. The TW's I bought were almost a wash for the smaller ones I sold to Ken with my Jet 14" saw.

Congrats on your new saw....I'm sure you'll love it as much as I do already with only a few cuts under my belt...well, on the saw table. :D

[Stan Smith]

Thanks, Jim. I really don't give a ---- about the allen wrenches. I usually throw all of them in a drawer and then have to try to figure out which size is which. Instead, I bought couple of those fold-out, jackknife, types from Sears--1 reg. and 1 metric. I find that they are handy for me because I can find them quickly.

I haven't used the pushstick and don't even know if I will. I have some homemade jobbies that I don't care about getting messed up and they're what I reach for.

I don't have a carbide tip blade yet. I was told that a company is developing one for the 16 because the wheels are too small for the blades on the market now. My friend snapped one on his MM16. I did hear that they will be out soon, though.

The manual is useless, though, IMHO, except to get the part numbers. I had to call MM to find out a few things not even mentioned in the manual. I'm very impressed with the service there, too.

Stan

[Jim Becker]

The manual is useless, though, IMHO, except to get the part numbers. I had to call MM to find out a few things not even mentioned in the manual. I'm very impressed with the service there, too.

Erik and some others (MM people and customers) are diligently working on a revised manual...I saw the draft at the Somerset show and it's coming along fine. You'll be able to download it from the MM 'board once it's completed and it should be supplied with new machines once it's done.

[Dominic Greco]

I rarely buy from Bryant even though it's only about 5 miles...too much trouble to find stuff for matching, etc., .... (Dominic Greco recently scored some nice box elder from him for turning, however...)

That bandsaw sure looks sweet! And it sounds like it works as great as it looks.

I'm sort of bummed out about Bryan's Farm. Last year I bought some red oak from there and when I took it down and surface planed it this past week, I found that under the clear surface were powder post beetle holes. The wood must have been infested! Luckily I spray all the Ash and red oak I get from Bryan's with Timbor as soon as I get home. But I was so freaked out, that I couldn't bring myself to use the wood. I mean, what if I "missed" a spot and beetles invaded the house of whoever would get the piece I'm working on?

I figure that I'll probably NOT be buying any more ash or oak from him. However, the cherry, walnut, poplar, and hickory are all still looking good! :D

See ya

PS: I hear you sold your Oneway lathe. Good for you! And good for whoever bought it!

[Jim Becker]

PS: I hear you sold your Oneway lathe. Good for you! And good for whoever bought it!

Yes, a fellow from Baltimore (who is also a new Mini Max-er with a CU300 and MM-16) is picking it up on Saturday and the Stubby "should" be at the Roadway dock on Friday if I'm really, really lucky. Cross your fingers.

See you Monday night...and some Saturday morning I'll have to take you over to Simmie's if you have not yet bought lumber from him. The cherry is great, as is the walnut, oak and ash. No critters, either.

[Dave Malen]

Great saw looks as solid as a boat anchor. I'd like to see that cut a thirty second of an inch off a 12 inch hard maple board. Good luck with that machine. -- enjoy Dave

[Jim Becker]

Great saw looks as solid as a boat anchor.

This is much more versatile than a boat anchor, especially for woodworkers who don't own a boat...


I'd like to see that cut a thirty second of an inch off a 12 inch hard maple board.

So bring a board over and we can try it out...you're due for a visit anyway (and I to your shop...).

[Tyler Howell]

Jim,

The BS doesn't look lonely anymore. Nice Gloat!;)

[Stan Smith]

Thanks for the info, Jim. I'll look forward to downloading it. Erik had sent me some brochure stuff via .pdf format so I'm assuming that the manual will be in that format as well.

Sad to say that I had the plastic blade guard off already. I was cutting some tenons and couldn't see the cut lines with the guard in place. Maybe it has a film on it, still. I'll try soaking it in a soapy solution and then rinsing it off with warm water.

Did have a strange thing happen...I was cutting and the saw just stopped. Now I don't know if there's a short or what. Started up again okay though.

Stan

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Very nice saw Jim! I saw one in action at the WW'ing show last year...excellent resawing capability. This year they weren't cutting anything that Saturday, they just had them on parade. Looks like a very well made saw and it's good to hear about their customer service. Seems that's a rarity these days.

[Paul B. Cresti]

That bandsaw sure looks sweet! And it sounds like it works as great as it looks.

I'm sort of bummed out about Bryan's Farm. Last year I bought some red oak from there and when I took it down and surface planed it this past week, I found that under the clear surface were powder post beetle holes. The wood must have been infested! Luckily I spray all the Ash and red oak I get from Bryan's with Timbor as soon as I get home. But I was so freaked out, that I couldn't bring myself to use the wood. I mean, what if I "missed" a spot and beetles invaded the house of whoever would get the piece I'm working on?

I figure that I'll probably NOT be buying any more ash or oak from him. However, the cherry, walnut, poplar, and hickory are all still looking good! :D

See ya

PS: I hear you sold your Oneway lathe. Good for you! And good for whoever bought it!
Dominic,
Yuk! the bettle infestation sounds serious! That really would have been interesting trying to explain to a client why half of their house is now infested! Too bad about Bryan's because I was trying to decide on another place to find wood from. I have only gone to Williard Brothers in Trenton. Jim mentioned the Siemmens (sp?) place that I think I might like to try.

[Stan Smith]

My bubble has been burst. The MM16 has died. Now power to be had. Checked the interlock switches, too. Must be a bad switch.

Stan

[John Miliunas]

My bubble has been burst. The MM16 has died. Now power to be had. Checked the interlock switches, too. Must be a bad switch.

Stan

Bummer! Probably an over-simple question, but have you checked all the power terminals to be sure they're secure? Had something similar happen on my TS when I first set it up. Tightened everything up and not a single problem since. Just a thought... :cool:

[John Miliunas]

Bummer! Probably an over-simple question, but have you checked all the power terminals to be sure they're secure? Had something similar happen on my TS when I first set it up. Tightened everything up and not a single problem since. Just a thought... :cool:

Stan,

Did some checking out at the MM message board. Not good. You're probably right about the switch being bad, as it appears that is a common problem with the MM. Like I said before: Bummer! :( Good luck with it! :cool:

[Alan Turner]

Jim,
Great tool, and congrats. I am sure you will enjoy it. I have a 20" Agazanni, and resawing is its primary work. I leave the 1" Lennox on it as a default, and hate it when I have to change it out.
I'll be interested to see how you like the Euro blade guides. Mine came with those as well, and I did not care for them. Esp. the thrust bearing, whicn to my mind is oriented incorrectly, by 90 degrees. I picked up the Carter guides, and while a PITA for going form a 1" to a 3/8", the correctly oriented thrust bearing makes it worth the trouble, IMHO.
Hve fun. You shouldn't have any trouble with 1/32" on 12" hard maple.
Alan

[Jim Becker]

I'll be interested to see how you like the Euro blade guides. Mine came with those as well, and I did not care for them.

Since I've only played with the 1" blade so far (business travel this week) the jury is still out. But MM is getting ready to release Cool Blocks for the machine and will get them to me to check out as soon as they can. I wouldn't use them for the wide blade, but for the smaller ones, I like them quite well from my previous experience. Time will tell and I'm not squeamish about passing things on... :rolleyes:



You shouldn't have any trouble with 1/32" on 12" hard maple.

Trust me, I plan on testing this! It will be named the "Malen Test" in honor of my friend Dave who presented the challenge...

[Stan Smith]

Thanks for the empathy, John. I went to the MM Group board this morning and see that there a number of switch problems. I'm not an electrician, but it seems that the switch is pretty complex from what I read. I guess the interlocks are due to product liability. It seems if they weren't there, you could just have a regular switch? Anyway, looks like it will be awhile before I'm using it again. I'm thinking that MM will be in for extra work addressing this problem.

Stan

[Steven Wilson]

Stan,

The switch Minimax uses (actually Centaro) is made by AEG (costs about $85 which is fairly cheap for this type of switch). The switch does a couple of things. Besides turing your machine on/off it also acts as a breaker if the current runs to high (i.e. you stall the motor in a cut) and if the power goes off the machine won't turn on when the power comes on again. The switch assembly comes in a few pieces (configurable) and its usually the main magswitch part that fails such that the switch won't engage to let the machine start. Usually the safety interconnects aren't part of the problem. For testing it's fairly easy to remove the safety switches out of the circuit and usually it's the main switch that has failed. The problem with finding another switch to use is finding one that will fit in the enclosure in the frame. Most of the other manufactures (NID, Alley Bradley, Furnace, etc) motor starters take up a lot more space. What it would require is mounting a NEMA enclosure on the back of the saw with the switch (starter really) in it, a remote start/stop pendant into the hole in the frame where the current switch is, and then rewire the saw. It would probably take the better part of a day to do unless you're an electrician who's use to this stuff. BTW a real good manual motor starter, remote start/stop, and NEMA enclosure would probably be north of $200 or so.

It is fairly easy to replace the switch with a new one and Minimax will be glad to send you as many new ones as you need. I'm only on switch number two and it works ok. If I get fed up with the AEG switch I'll probably work up something else but I really don't feel like doing it now. I hope Minimax will work up an alternate motor starter / switch package that folk's could upgrade to.

[Stan Smith]

Thanks for all the info, Steve. The folks at Minimax are really great. They stayed on the phone with me while we did the trouble shooting. It appears to be something to do with the coil box. They told me how to remove it and run the saw as a temp. fix until they overnight me a new one. It took them some time and they even sent me some homedrawn schematics that are simply enough for a dummy like me to understand. Don't know why the switch went bad, but they really stand behind their service. I agree that the switch could be designed better even if the price was a couple of $$ more.

Stan

[Stan Smith]

Afternoon, Steve:

I've just read your post for the 3rd time. The replacement switch that Minimax sent me doesn't work either. Although it has been a lot of years, I got out the voltmeter to make sure that I had wired the new switch right which I had. I've checked all the connections 3 times and also the male plug I added to the pigtail and the extension cord that I made. :( I did read a post on the Minimax forum that Centauro is redesigning the switches for larger saws, but I didn't see anything about the MM16. I'm checking with Minimax again on Monday but I'm also forming a backup plan. It would be just too much of a pita for me to packup the saw and send it back so I'm going to have to come up with a switch from somewhere. I have a Jet TS which is 220 and am wondering if I can get a switch from them and use it on the Minimax. What would you advise? Thanks for your input.

Stan