From Design to Delivery... What tool?

[Craig Thompson]

Creekers,

Question for all you long time pros. For the last couple of years my "do it for fun" hobby has been getting busier and busier. I am backed up by 5 kitchens and looking into leaving the full time job... ( plenty of posts about that.. so lets let that one lie)... I have a great tool available to me now for design ( I am in IT for one of the 'BIG 3' ) but if I leave I will need to replace the current tool with one more affordable.

I see a lot of you use 'SketchUp'... Unless I have missed an example. I haven't seen any real detailed sketches. How detailed can you get with it?? Can anyone give some good examples?
I have built a library of available item... down to the individual pieces/profiles... with outputs to cut lists.
Since I have been engrossed with using the design tool I have, I have not looked into others yet.

The one thing I can say for sure is... Having a DETAILED design tool... has sold jobs... I can beat HD and any local Kitchen shop with a 3D design that lets the customer feel as if they are in the room....

Any help or thoughts????

Examples below:

[Al Navas]

You might consider eCabinet Systems (http://www.ecabinetsystems.com/) software, Craig. They provide the software FREE, and their support is plain terrific - AND they have a GREAT forum to boot! If you go to their web site, you can request the software by clicking on the Software Request tab. It will take about two weeks to get the installation CD.

You can get the full cut list, plus it will generate the CNC router code to send to a shop that can cut the material for you, joinery and all.

I attach an image of glass door cabinets I rendered in preparation for a large job, and also an image of a kitchen rendered as a learning exercise during a three-day seminar I attended a short while back.


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Sandal_Woods/cabinets/Lightsincabwithglassdoor.jpg


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Sandal_Woods/cabinets/kitchenwithsinkandglassoncabdoors.jpg.

[Jim Becker]

Dave, one of the nice things about SketchUp! is that you can easily do the work of building the design. Now, the native output doesn't feel like a photo, but in many cases it's just fine. If you need "photo quality", however...it's easily provided with one of several rendering applications that take the SketchUp! output and ray-trace it to something "really kewel". These packages are anywhere between free and very much not-free, but worth it if you absolutely need that high-end rendered output. I think the one I've played with is called something like Ketheria or something like that...

[Art Mann]

The free Sketchup design software is crippled by the company. They give it away in hopes that you will want to upgrade to the professional level. It might be worth it to you to buy it.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I've only fooled around with ecabinets. It seems great if you plan on building the cabinets as well as design them. Some folks made some really nice renderings with that software. However, this software appears to do much more than basic kitchen design. It gets down to how the cabinets are assembled and creates cut lists. If you're doing basic layout, this feature is not necessary.

What ever software you choose, you need a software that supports libraries of parts (stock cabinet sizes, lighting fixtures, chairs, appliances). This way, you are not re-inventing the wheel for each client. Also, basic parts can either be 3d models, or they can be 3d models that are render-ready (that is, have materials already assigned). This can be a big time saver since rendering takes so much time to get right.

AutoCAD (beginning with version 2007) now has a nice rendering engine that was recently upgraded, and also has enhanced 3D tools. There are lots of 3D blocks available from internet sources, both free and for fee. However, AutoCAD is very pricey and in the $4,000-$5,000 range. It's very powerful software and the premier professional 2d platform for architectural/engineering firms. As a minimum, it's a skill worth knowing.

-Jeff :)

[Jamie Buxton]

The free Sketchup design software is crippled by the company. They give it away in hopes that you will want to upgrade to the professional level. It might be worth it to you to buy it.

Gee, Art, I haven't seen any crippled effects. What specifically are you talking about?

[Jamie Buxton]

Craig --
Sketchup will easily make drawings the quality of the left two pics in your posting. For my work, that's good enough. They're good enough to give clients the general sense of what I'm proposing. At least as I use the program, the drawings are not super-detailed. There are folks who make much more-detailed drawings with Sketch-up, but I find that's beyond the point of diminishing returns. Here's some example drawings from recent projects.

[Art Mann]

Gee, Art, I haven't seen any crippled effects. What specifically are you talking about?

The biggest drawback to the free version that I have noticed is the poor rendering quality both on screen and in print. I would not want to go to a sophisticated customer with a high dollar proposal with the kind of output the free version provides. For a more complete answer to your question, go to the Sketchup website. Below is a short cut-and-paste from there.

"The Pro version of SketchUp provides extra functionality for people who need to export their work into CAD, rendering and other professional software applications. SketchUp Pro 6 also includes LayOut (http://www.sketchup.com/index.php?title=1956), a completely new program that lets you create complete presentations—paper and digital—from your SketchUp model."

If Google is not hoping to make money by selling the expensive professional version, then why did they release the free version? Companies are in business to make money, not provide woodworkers with a free design tool.

[Jamie Buxton]

The biggest drawback to the free version that I have noticed is the poor rendering quality both on screen and in print. I would not want to go to a sophisticated customer with a high dollar proposal with the kind of output the free version provides. For a more complete answer to your question, go to the Sketchup website. Below is a short cut-and-paste from there.

"The Pro version of SketchUp provides extra functionality for people who need to export their work into CAD, rendering and other professional software applications. SketchUp Pro 6 also includes LayOut (http://www.sketchup.com/index.php?title=1956), a completely new program that lets you create complete presentations—paper and digital—from your SketchUp model."

If Google is not hoping to make money by selling the expensive professional version, then why did they release the free version? Companies are in business to make money, not provide woodworkers with a free design tool.

Okay, you can't export to elaborate photo-realistic rendering programs. If you're working at the "high dollar" level, you may want to buy the commercial version of Sketchup plus some rendering tools, and you should be able to afford them. If you're working at a somewhat more-affordable level, there's still lots and lots of functionality in the freeware version. For many applications (mine, for instance), that is sufficient.

[Greg Funk]

The biggest drawback to the free version that I have noticed is the poor rendering quality both on screen and in print. I would not want to go to a sophisticated customer with a high dollar proposal with the kind of output the free version provides.
That's OK because you are not allowed to use the free version for commercial purposes.

Greg

[Jim Becker]

The free Sketchup design software is crippled by the company. They give it away in hopes that you will want to upgrade to the professional level. It might be worth it to you to buy it.

It's "crippled" only in the respect that it will not export in certain CAD formats, print in certain high resolutions and so forth that most non-professionals have no use for. All of the funcionality is identical to the "pro" version otherwise. I don't believe that Google is trying to get mass uplift revenue from hobbyists to get those features since the same audience doesn't have the $$$ applications to benefit from them.

[Art Mann]

Let me clarify my original post. The OP was apparently accustomed to using powerful design software at his workplace and was wanting to know what is available as a replacement when he loses this capability. The free version of Skechup is probably not in the same league as what he is using now. If he is going to continue to use this caliber of tool, he will have to either buy it or steal it through software piracy.

I have used the free Sketchup quite a bit and find it more than adequate for my purposes. However, as a professional tool, it is indeed crippled.

[Jack Ganssle]

Jamie, your pics look great. I've been playing with Sketchup! and just can't get that nice look. It's not the program's fault, rather there's something wrong with the operator... My needs are very simple and I'm thinking about going back to pencil and paper as they seem so much faster.

Jack

[Neil Lamens]

Hey Craig:

Paper, pencil, and reputation!!!!............Neil

[Craig Thompson]

Thanks for all the great response posts...

Niel, The pencil, paper, and reputation works for sure...
Providing a detailed design does help with new clients though. And the cut list, helps keep facts straight with the shop.

Jeff, I am familiar with Autocad, have not used it 10 yrs... its not tooo bad on pricing... but if eCabinets will do the job for cheaper....

Thanks for the starter ideas... time to start pokin away

[Heather Deans]

One you all haven't mentioned yet is Vectorworks- I started using it last year at work and it is very user friendly, 3-d is very easy to do, and you can make your drawings as complicated or simple as you want. Its also cheaper than AutoCAD- which I also use and like.
Heather

[Alan Greene]

Craig, You might want to take a look at Alibre. http://www.alibre.com/. They have a free version that seems to be pretty detailed.

[David G Baker]

Craig,
Suggestion; if you plan of purchasing high end software, do it while you are gainfully employed, it will help take the sting out of the financial bite.