Back hollowing?

[Burt Alcantara]

In Richard Raffan's book, Turning Boxes, he says he "back hollows" box bases to quickly remove stock. The technique, as best as I understand it, is to place a gouge (spindle?) in the upper right quadrant and presumably push up and to the right.

For me, this cut is shooting myself in the head. Violent catches, tool thrown across the room, tool smashed down on the rest (did bash a finger on this one).

I realize that this book is cosmetically updated but some of the information is mythic, such as the "polish every day for a week, every week..." As Bob Flexner says, what cabinet/furniture maker is going to go to your house on this schedule? He also says oil and beeswax doesn't do much of anything.

I have a few small bowls and boxes using oil and wax. They are still tacky after 12 weeks.

Don't mean this to be a raving rant, just curious.
Burt

[JOHN VITOSKY]

I have the utmost respect for Richard Raffans skills,but some of the techniques in his books he teaches seem to be incredibly dangerous for a new turner to try. Im not new to turning. I know of many people who have been turning 20+ years and they wouldnt try the technique you seem to be referring to. It is opening the door for a bad accident. He is obviously one of the greatest turners of all time. Seems to invite accidents though.

[Kaptan J.W. Meek]

Holy Cow! I was kindof afraid to say anything!! I think he said something about hollowing with the bowl gouge as well. Maybe for an experienced turner, but for a new guy with his brand new bowl gouge.. well, suffice it to say, I went a few weeks without even picking that tool up again.. somehow the term "violent catches" doesn't seem to capture the true terror of it.. :eek:

[Paul Heely]

I've also had no luck back cutting the way he describes it. Violent catch is an understatement :eek:.

What I did find worked for me was to back cut by starting in the center and pivoting out and to the left along the center line. Not sure if that's a good explanation or not.

Good luck.

[Burt Alcantara]

When I first started turning I tried hollowing with the push and pull cuts. In both cases I got bad dig-ins. Then I took a class with Trent Bosch. He taught me how to sharpen a bowl gouge in ONE MINUTE!

He also uses the push cut for everything, using the gouge with the flute facing almost directly in the direction one goes. I can rough out a blank or spindle with a bowl gouge in seconds with no catches.

This has worked very well for me and now I'm able to do pull cuts too but not without the occasional "ding." I recently tried using a spindle gouge but without much success but I still practice when I do my Alan Lacer drills.

If Trent comes to your area, take his class. Worth every penny. Also like his handles.

Burt

[Mike Ramsey]

If you get a chance to watch Mr. Raffan's video that goes with the book
it's somewhat easier to see how this cut works, I use this cut every chance I can & it's a blast when when you finally get it right!

[Bernie Weishapl]

I agree with Mike. I watched Raffan's video and I don't know if it makes a difference but bought his signature Kryo Endgrain Gouge. It works pretty well. I use this gouge and the back cut on almost all of the lidded boxes I make to get the wood hogged out. This cut is easier to learn than a skew.

[Gordon Seto]

The same thing has happened to me.

Manually turn the lathe to figure out the cutting mechanics first. Richard Raffan's video is too fast for my eyes to watch, the brain to figure out and to coordinate with my turning movement (at least for me).

Gordon

[Frank Kobilsek]

BUrt

Easy! Start near center, Rub bevel and bring the tool tip LEFT not right. Flute facing almost horizontal. This is an end grain cut.

Honestly I read this method and about lost fingers too trying it. When someone showed me, it was super easy to do. Find a coach you'll have it in two minutes. Real deep requires practice but normal box depth, piece of cake.


Frank

[Burt Alcantara]

I'll give the video a try. I've picked up a lot from the ones I have - The Skew Chisel, From Tree to Table, Bowl Turning (Del Stubbs).

Burt

[Burt Alcantara]

Frank's tip about turning left on the cut made all the difference. I can do a deep and wide back hollow (most of the time). The cut leaves a very rough surface. To clean up the cut I tried using a shear cut from center to rim but that usually catches.

A scraper seems to take forever to get smooth enough to sand. Is there a better and quicker way to get a smoother cut on the back hollow? On Raffan's dvd he takes about 2 passes with a scraper then finishes. Not me!

Thanks,
Burt

[Allen Neighbors]

No Comprende! :(
No Video! :(

[Richard Madison]

Is it possible to describe (in words) initial tool orientation, direction of movement of the tool tip AND simultaneous rotation of the tool about its axis? And the tool description (bowl gouge with "fingernail" type grind?)? Saw a demo by (have to look up his name) making a NIP lamp shade, cutting from the center UP. Very fast hollowing. Sounds like same idea.

[Tom Sherman]

Richard I have the video and as it happens I was looking at it just last night. Raffan uses what he a 1/2" shallow gouge, when he begins the cut it is like you were truing the face, the gouge is on it's right side on center. When it begins to cut he plunges it into the piece keeping the gouge on it's side and cutting between 2 and 3 oclock, it is important to keep the bevel rubbing. It sounds like a lot to keep track of but in fact when you try it, it will amaze you how simple it is. This is not a cut that leaves a smooth surface it simply removes a lot of wood quickly. Hope this helps.

[Allen Neighbors]

Tom, you say, the gouge is on it's right side (flute right) and he's cutting between 2 and 3 o'clock... is that right? He's cutting in the upper right quadrant of the piece....? So that means he's cutting, more or less, with the point of the gouge... maybe a little bit of the lower cutting edge?
If that's correct, I've gotta give this a try!

[Richard Madison]

Sounds scary to me, but will try it anyway.

[Tom Sherman]

I agree with you guys, it does sound scary but when you try it, it's not as bad as it sounds. It really does remove a lot material quickly, then just clean it up with a scraper.