First time with the McNaughton...

[Mark Pruitt]

...was a success.:cool: I turned a piece of cherry burl a little over 14" yesterday afternoon, and cored it x3. I was too busy to fiddle with a camera, so no pics.

For the most part, it went smoothly. The only difficult part was about 2/3 of the way through the first coring, where I started hearing some horrible noise, as if the cutter was hitting metal. (That was not the case.) I never figured out an explanation for that noise, but I dealt with it by slowing the lathe down to only +/-200. At the slow speed, the noise was still there but not as intimidating, and I could see the cutter moving forward into the wood so I knew that I had not hit an obstruction. At one point I backed the knife out and began moving it forward again, and accidentally "broke" the core loose. Not a great problem; I just had some additional work in finishing the inside of the main bowl.

The other two went without incident. Using this tool is not as difficult as I had feared, but I should say that I had read up on it as well as watching Bill Grumbine's video on using it. I had seen many advisements on carefully placing the cutter at center, and I took great care to do just that.

After I finished, I looked around my shop at the bowls that I have drying and considered that for each of those bowls I could have had two or three, if I had had this coring tool. I also considered how small a pile of shavings I had on the floor in contrast to the mountains I had been making previously. I know that in buying new tools I always have to wrestle with the question of how I can justify buying whatever tool I'm considering, but this is one tool that is hard to justify not owning.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Sounds like it went well Mark. I have been eyeing that tool for a while. Just didn't know if I could justify it but now it sounds like it might be a good investment. Thanks for the report.

[Reed Gray]

If you make bowls and sell them, it is a tool that you have to have. You can pay for it in one days worth of turning. It also makes the job go faster, especially as you get more proficient with the tool. When this happens, you will note that there are just as many shavings on the floor as ever because it really does save that much time. 4 bowl set from a 6 inch thick by 13 inch wide blank to finish thickness now takes me about 45 to 50 minutes.
robo hippy

[Steven Russell]

Hello Mark,

I've used the Kelton tool for many years and have cored over 10,000 bowls with it. If you need specific information on using this tool, I would be happy to assist you. I wrote and article a few years ago on using the Kelton tool, you may wish to read it for a few tips:

http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/center-saver.html

I'm also going to be producing a DVD video later this year on using this tool. It's a great tool that is easier to use than its reputation. Good luck to you and best wishes in all of your "coring" endeavors!

[Jim Shaver, Oakville Ont]

I've used the Kelton tool for many years and have cored over 10,000 bowls with it.


Wow, 10,000 bowls.....how do you find the time?

[Don Orr]

For the great article! That's a lot of bowls!

[Mike Vickery]

Mark,
The screaching is usually the side of the tool rubbing against the side of the wood. If you stop and move the tool post in (towards the the lathe bed) a little bit ( 1/4 to 3/8ths) you should get rid of it.

[Barry Stratton]

CONGRATS Mark!! That sounds fantastic, I've got to get me one of those.......once I get a "real" lathe;)

[Mark Pruitt]

I wrote and article a few years ago on using the Kelton tool, you may wish to read it for a few tips:
http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/center-saver.html


Steve, your article was one of the things I read (twice, actually) in preparing to use this tool. In fact, reading your article prior to my purchase helped push me over the edge in choosing the McN tool over its two chief competitors. I had seen Bill's video and his confidence in the tool, and had seen Reed's recommendations along with others. Using what you call the "complimentary arc sighting process" helped me maintain a fairly consistent wall thickness.

[Mark Kauder]

Steve,
Wow. I just got back from vacation, including the AAW convention, and was looking at coring systems there. Though I mostly do segmented turning, when I do solid wood bowls, I want to maximize the wood.

How long does it take you to core a bowl, Steve? I was figuring at an average 10 minutes a bowl (considering setup of the system, the blank, and each coring). Sound about right?

10,000? How long have you been using this system? At my figures, 10K is 3 hours a day, 7 days a year for about a year and a half.

Mark

[Jeff Moffett]

I've used the Kelton tool for many years and have cored over 10,000 bowls with it. If you need specific information on using this tool, I would be happy to assist you. I wrote and article a few years ago on using the Kelton tool, you may wish to read it for a few tips:

http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/center-saver.html

Steven,
Welcome to the Creek! I'm thrilled to see you posting here. I just bought this coring system last week at the AAW symposium and am anxiously awaiting its arrival. Your article was very helpful. Thanks for posting the link.

For those doubting Steven's bowl statistics, my guess is he's underestimating. He's a fulltime production turner with some excellent turning skills. I've seen him demonstrate at the Woodworking Shows, and he's super fast and proficient. As I recall, he makes a bowl from beginning to end in 30 minutes.

[Steven Russell]

Hello Jim,

I turn full time, so time is not a problem for me. :) I've been a production bowl turner for twelve years, so they add up quickly. :D Take care and all the best to you and yours!

[Steven Russell]

Hello Don,

Thanks for the kind words... I'm glad my McNaughton article helped you. My studio's primary output is bowls, so they add up fast when you've been at it for over twelve years. :D Good luck to you and best wishes in all of your woodturning endeavors!

[Keith Burns]

Mark, I'm glad you had great success !!! When you jump in you do so with both feet !! Next time take some pics:rolleyes:

[Steven Russell]

Hello Mark,

Thanks for your kind words... :) I'm glad I was able to help you a wee bit. My "complimentary arc sighting process" is a very fast and easy way to make sure you get the proper thickness in your bowl wall. I will be shooting a Kelton Centre Saver video later this year and I will show some new ways to use this most impressive tool. Take care and if I can ever help you, please do not hesitate to contact me.



Steve, your article was one of the things I read (twice, actually) in preparing to use this tool. In fact, reading your article prior to my purchase helped push me over the edge in choosing the McN tool over its two chief competitors. I had seen Bill's video and his confidence in the tool, and had seen Reed's recommendations along with others. Using what you call the "complimentary arc sighting process" helped me maintain a fairly consistent wall thickness.

[Steven Russell]

Hello Jeff,

Thanks for the very kind words and the warm welcome. :) Congrats on getting your Kelton system... :D I have all five of the Kelton centre saver systems and use them regularly. It's a very versatile system that can grow with you as your needs and interests change.

You're right about my low bowl count... Those numbers are way out of date. My actual count is much higher. :D It's not really all that hard to turn a few thousand bowls when that's the primary focus of your studio, especially when you add up twelve years of production. :D Thanks again for your kindness and I look forward to contributing on the forum. Take care and best wishes to you and yours!



Steven,
Welcome to the Creek! I'm thrilled to see you posting here. I just bought this coring system last week at the AAW symposium and am anxiously awaiting its arrival. Your article was very helpful. Thanks for posting the link.

For those doubting Steven's bowl statistics, my guess is he's underestimating. He's a fulltime production turner with some excellent turning skills. I've seen him demonstrate at the Woodworking Shows, and he's super fast and proficient. As I recall, he makes a bowl from beginning to end in 30 minutes.

[Steven Russell]

Hello,

I've been using the McNaughton (now called the Kelton) Centre Saver System for more than 10 years. I have all five sets that are available and use them all the time. Back when I purchased my system, there was only two paragraphs of instructions on the box. I decided the tool needed a more comprehensive set of instructions, so I wrote and article on how to use it, along with some of my setup tips for "More Woodturning." This article is available on Kelton's website as an additional instructional guide.

Not long after I wrote the article for "More Woodturning", I wrote a more comprehensive guide to using the tool that has become a popular guide to using the tool. I have demonstrated using the tool more times than I can remember and I developed a low power "Fluid Pulsed" penetration protocol to allow users with smaller motors like (3/4 and 1 HP) to be able to effectively use the system on small lathes.

The length of time it takes to core a bowl really depends on the species you are working with at the time. Softer species core faster than the denser varieties. Tool setup time is the same of course. If I'm coring Mesquite for example, the total time to pop the first core on a 12" diameter bowl would be about four minutes. (1 minute for tool setup and 2-3 for popping the core).

This assumes a Oneway 2436 lathe with a 3 HP motor, a sharp cutter and no unusual objects in the wood... :eek: I've hit bullets, nails, bolts, glass, barbed wire, cement, shotgun slugs and lots of other undesirables through the years. The time could vary + or - a minute or two, depending on the wood (density, branchlets in coring path, endgrain or side grain etc.) and my chosen coring speed. However, less than five minutes total is very easy to achieve.

Some timbers cut like butter and a single thrust or two can pop the core, others require a longer and different penetration protocol (Pulsed, Rhythmic, Alt-A, Alt-B etc.) I use a jig to preset the turret assembly, so setup is only a matter of dropping the turret assembly into the banjo and setting my penetration arc. This takes less than a minute. I developed the "complimentary arc sighting process" to speed the setting of the penetration curve. This method is a very fast and accurate way of penetrating the blanks, whilst keeping uniform wall thickness on your money bowl. (The money bowl is the large outer bowl)

Of course, when I'm coring, I do it in a production line fashion... I rough turn all of the outer bowl profiles and install a dovetail boss on the bottom of the bowl. The front of the bowl is trued up and a interior dovetail boss is turned into the face. (This interior dovetail boss facilitates the fast remounting of the saved cores without having to put them back between centers). Once all of my bowls are prepared, I core all of the bowls in turn, taking the master core out of each money bowl. Once all of the master cores have been removed, each saved core is remounted, and another dovetail boss is turned on the bottom.

The interior dovetail boss on the face of the blank is used throughout the process and does not need to be returned, this saves a great deal of time. Once the secondary cores have been removed from the remounted master core, the process starts all over again until the blanks are too small to core. It all happens quite fast when you get setup and you're used to coring.

My actual number of cored bowls with the Kelton system is much higher than I mentioned. :D I've been using the system for many years and my studio's primary output is production bowls, so they add up fast. For me, the Kelton system has been a time saver and a money maker, by allowing me to get more bowls out of every blank I process. I'm working on a brand new article on set-up and use of the Kelton system that will include some of my latest tips on using the tool. We're also going to be shooting a DVD video later this year that will show some new ways to use the system. Good luck to you and best wishes in all of your woodturning endeavors!


Steve,
How long does it take you to core a bowl, Steve? I was figuring at an average 10 minutes a bowl (considering setup of the system, the blank, and each coring). Sound about right?

10,000? How long have you been using this system? At my figures, 10K is 3 hours a day, 7 days a year for about a year and a half.

Mark

[Dominic Greco]

I've been using the McNaughton (now called the Kelton) Centre Saver System for more than 10 years. I have all five sets that are available and use them all the time.

Excuse me if sound like an engineer here or cast doubt on your reported figure. But when I saw that number, the engineer in me immediately dropped my mind into "computational" mode.

So that basically says that you successfully produced 1000 bowls a year for 10 years. Even with the systematic approach you had mentioned, I find myself astonished at this figure. Mike Mahoney was producing thousands of bowls a year, but he was outsourcing or hiring people in house.

Wouldn't this kind of production mean that you would be dedicated to churning out bowls full time? From your web site, and the comments you posted here, I see that you have more than one iron in the fire (Producing DVDs, writing articles, and maintaining your web site). You are one busy guy!

And this kind of spectacular mass production must have mean that you had one helluva' outlet for these bowls. If you don't mind me asking, where did you sell these?

And assuming that many of these might be "green" bowls, where the heck did you find a place to dry them?:eek:

I (and many others here) would love to see a photo or short video of your system in use

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

Thanks, Mark. I have been debating what to do with some extra money, I have. Now I know what to buy! Especially since I just bought six turning blanks from Jim King's Wonderful Peru, S.A. wood!

Bruce

[Skip Spaulding]

I have the Kelton system and use it on a Nova 1624 with 11/2hp motor, I find by not using the handle and just grasping the cutter I don,t stall my lathe and don't snap the blanks out my chuck when I do get a catch. It is slower but I turn for fun so speed really doesn't count as much. Great tool. Skip

[Jim Shaver, Oakville Ont]

I (and many others here) would love to see a photo or short video of your system in use

:) Bump :)

[Ian Welford]

Maybe vibration caused the noise. I've got one of these and if you don't wiggle it on the way in to keep the tool clear of shavings they build up. Then the tool tip oscillates and the metal noise might actually be the tool on the tool rest harmonic??

I've managed to stall my current lathe ( myford mystro) using this by not wiggling which was a big surprise. Good tool though saves sooooo much wood.

Works better on green wood .

Ian

[Joe Tonich]

I (and many others here) would love to see a photo or short video of your system in use


:) Bump :)

Bumpada-bump....:)

[Ernie Nyvall]

Congrats on getting started with it Mark.

[Steven Russell]

Hello to the group,

Please accept my apologies for the late reply. I have been up to my ears in Alligators of late in the studio and free time is short to nil these days. For those who mentioned wanting to see a video on my McNaughton Center Saver protocols, I will be shooting a video later this year that will show how I use the tool. The video will also include my "Low Power - Fluid Pulsed Protocol" as well, for those turning on lower horsepower lathes.

Dom, I've begun writing a book that will detail my production protocols and how I operate my production bowl turning studio. Although my primary output (90-95%) is production bowls, the basic information can be applied to any other type of project that you wish to turn in high volume. Also, you give me far too much credit... I frequently outsource for labor intensive tasks and my wife does nearly all of my studio's administrative support and website maintenance, as well as almost everything to do with the videos, except standing in front of the lens and turning, not to mention a thousand other things she does to help me in the studio.

She types with amazing speed (think Scramjet fast), whereas I type about as fast as a kid can pedal a tricycle with two broken wheels. :eek: There are literally hundreds of things you must do to operate a production studio efficiently and you have to be good at time management. I continually hone my protocols to achieve optimum efficiency and to increase overall throughput. You also have to look at every single thing you do in your studio and see where you can save tens of minutes, then minutes, then seconds and then tenths of seconds to increase your efficiency. I also do time and motion studies to improve efficiency and I work 7 days a week (most weeks) for up to 16 hours or more every day. :) I've worked very hard over the last 12 years to build my studio from scratch and I'm proud of my accomplishments. Good luck to you and best wishes in all of your woodturning endeavors!