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View Full Version : Which Oval Shape Do You Like?



Todd Burch
01-16-2004, 1:16 AM
I've been playing around with different oval/elliptical shapes for this big tabletop (10' long x 40"wide).

Which of these shapes do you like? The client said oval, but there's lots of oval shapes.

I've shown the available surface square footage of each shape, as well as some recognized names (rectangle, ellipse, racetrack oval) along with some Toddisms for the other shapes.

Anyways, what are your thoughts? Thanks for your input. Todd

Ralph Steffey
01-16-2004, 2:00 AM
Tod for that piece of wood you have I like either of the ellipes you have drawn.

Adan Madrid
01-16-2004, 2:24 AM
Hey Todd,

What do the legs look like?

Glenn Clabo
01-16-2004, 5:06 AM
Todd,
I like the Blunt...then the simple ellipse. But I'm sure you'll figure out what will go with the flow of the wood. I'd try not to force a form.

Terry Quiram
01-16-2004, 7:05 AM
Todd

My vote is for blunt. Nothing worse than sitting at the curved end of a table.

Terry

Don Abele
01-16-2004, 7:18 AM
Todd, I'll echo what Terry said, I like the blunt. Having sat at a lot of these big tables, sitting at the small curved ends really bites.

Be well,

Doc

Ken Salisbury
01-16-2004, 7:20 AM
Definitely Blunt ! !

Keith Starosta
01-16-2004, 7:31 AM
Another vote for the blunt! I can't remember what you said this table would be used for, but I think for any applciation, like the others have said, getting shafting with the end seat of a fairly rounded corner like that would blow. No place for the elbows! :D

Keith

Kevin Gerstenecker
01-16-2004, 7:34 AM
Todd, I'll echo Terry, Don and the Rebel. I too have sat at the small, rounded end of a large table..............you may as well sit on the floor...........at least on the floor you have enough room for your "stuff". :D I really like the blunt design............perhaps the blunt design with gently rounded ends where the side transitions into the blunted ends would be nice? I CAN'T wait to see the progress and results of this project...........WOW, what a piece of wood! :D

Kurt Aebi
01-16-2004, 7:38 AM
Either the Race Track Oval or the Standard Elipse type Oval

Jason Roehl
01-16-2004, 7:46 AM
Man, Kevin, you stole my idea!! I'm all for the blunt shape, but, like Kevin, I wouldn't leave the pointy "corners"--I'd radius them somehow. Can't wait to see this monster of a table!!

Robert Goodwin
01-16-2004, 8:34 AM
I like the shape better, you will waste less of that wonderful wood, and someone could sit more comfortably at the either end of the table.

Looking foreword to progress pics.

Tyler Howell
01-16-2004, 8:38 AM
Unique wood unique shape. Go for the dish!

TJH

Jim Becker
01-16-2004, 9:10 AM
Elliptical makes the most sense to me proportion wise, but I agree that the blunt (or a milder form of the dished idea) would be both attractive and functional for the individuals sitting at the table.

BTW, based on your frequent (and wonderful) illustrations, I've downloaded the preview for SketchUp to play with and watched some of the streaming videos. Very impressive application!

Brad Schafer
01-16-2004, 9:24 AM
where's the table going? what does the surrounding area look like? what's the primary purpose of the table (eating, serving, etc.)?

depending on the artsy-farsty quotient of the client (pardon the technical term :D ) and the setting (e.g., source of natural light), offset curves (as in a non-symmetrical ellipse) might really make this thing a showpiece.

ow - this side of the brain hasn't seen much activity lately,


b

Dan Bussiere
01-16-2004, 10:14 AM
Todd,
After sitting at one of those type tables for 23 years, I agree that the blunt is much more user friendly. Perhaps, as suggested with softened corners. Can't wait to see the pics.
Dan

Pete Lamberty
01-16-2004, 10:26 AM
Todd, I like the ellipse. However, I am wondering if you should first make a rectangle that is the dimensions of the golden rectangle, and then fit the ellipse or blunt ellipse or which ever shape you decide, into the golden rectangle. This might prove to be the best over all size and shape. Just thinking out loud here. Pete

Bruce Page
01-16-2004, 11:02 AM
Definitely Blunt ! !


I agree with Ken

John Scarpa
01-16-2004, 11:04 AM
Todd,

This rambling stream of thought assumes this will be used in a business enviornment. My immediate thought goes to the blunt design. However, I know that's heavely influenced by years of sitting around similar designs in my work experience. For a "get business done" enviornment it's nice to have maximum square footage but the elliptical design aids communication. You dont have to lean to see who your directing comments to at the other end of the table. Traditionaly, in business that blunt end goes to the boss or Team lead if they choose to use it. If I'm leading the meeting I like to be at the middle of the table so I can have more people close to me. Today depending on the room set up (Brad Schafer said it all in a previous post) you typically have multimedia devices in the room. If projectors etc are not built into the overhead they land on the table or at the end. If something will be at the end I say go with blunt. If not elliptical, I think, is better for communication both in a business and home enviornment. Depending on the wood and figure it may be the most pleasing to the eye.
John

Chris Padilla
01-16-2004, 11:15 AM
The size and shape of the table top obviously needs to fit the space but on the other hand, will the table always be in that space and never move?

Any thoughts to a drop-leaf design? Would it be nice to have the table adjustable for any reason (i.e. adding center piece or two to make it longer)?

Overall, I like the simple rectangular shape as it affords the most area of such a beautiful piece of wood. With 5 kids...I think it might be needed! :)

Ted Shrader
01-16-2004, 11:22 AM
Todd -

How about a "super oval"? It is a design I have seen in Scandinavian furniture stores. Sort of a cross between the regular ellipse, but closer to a racetrack. The blunt with radiused corner is also close, but not quite the same. The beauty of the super oval is the unbroken line all the way around (like a regular ellipse), but there is plenty of room at the ends to sit and work - or eat.

Ted

Todd Burch
01-16-2004, 11:31 AM
Ted, I would like to see the "super oval". Can you reference any pictures?

John, this will be a dining table, right off their kitchen. This will be their everyday table. 2 adults and 5 kids will bless this table 3 times a day, 7 days a week.

It will have a trestle base. The client gave me a photocopy of a base style he liked, but asked me to model up one that I liked. I have not done that yet.

The size is fixed at 10' x 40". No drop leafs and no leaves. I'll probably make it 29" tall - 1 inch shorter than typical, since it won't have an apron. I really want to stick with 2 legs too. This will be interesting.

Dick Parr
01-16-2004, 12:00 PM
I would say the Blunt. I like the Dished Ellipsed, but if there were any kids around, someone could get hurt on the edges.

Roger Fitzsimonds
01-16-2004, 12:50 PM
I vote for the blunt also. Wow what a project.


Roger

John Schreiber
01-16-2004, 12:55 PM
Well, for beauty's sake, it's hard to beat an Ellipse, but it cuts down on square footage and makes the space at the ends unpleasent to sit at. The dished ellipse is nice looking, but I'd worry about those corners.

Of the choices, I like the blunt ellipse, but I'll bet you could flatten/lengthen the ellipse, then superimpose the long side of a smaller ellipse shape on the cut off edges to improve it further.

With that piece of BIG BUBINGA to work with you've got us all pulling for the creation of something great.

Todd Burch
01-16-2004, 1:20 PM
I've created two more drawings from y'alls suggestions.

The prior "deep dish" ellipse was concave with a 6" dish. This new one only has a 2" dish. We'll call it "thin crust"!! (or shallow dish, as I have it labeled)

The other not-so-blunted ellipse has an 18" radius arc on the ends. I like it and the blunt design - maybe this radiused one a bit better.

Any more ideas? Thanks - this is great feedback! Todd.

Chris Padilla
01-16-2004, 1:32 PM
Blend the 4 "corners" smoothly into the curvy shape and I think the bottom one is a winner!

It still has a nice area (most, so far, save the rectangular shape).

Does the table need to be symmetrical?

Keith Starosta
01-16-2004, 1:38 PM
I agree with Chris. The bottom of the two is the better of the two, IMHO. Just smooth out those four corners, and you're there!

You know, You're going to have to inscribe all of our names on the underside of the table top, being credited as the "Design Team"! ;) :D

Keith

Dick Parr
01-16-2004, 1:52 PM
The bottom one of the two would be my pick! Good compromise!

Ted Shrader
01-16-2004, 2:24 PM
Ted, I would like to see the "super oval". Can you reference any pictures?
Todd -

I'll see what I can come up with....or at least a drawing.

Regards,
Ted

Rob Littleton
01-16-2004, 2:24 PM
what a star or a cross :-)

Blunt looks good to me

Ted Shrader
01-16-2004, 2:52 PM
Todd -

I'll see what I can come up with....or at least a drawing.

Regards,
Ted

Todd -

The second picture on your updated post w/ the new drawings is pretty close. But I think you need to fair in the corners a little more to make a smooth curve.

For mathematical formulas you can go to this site:
<a href="http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Superellipse.html">http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Superellipse.html</a>

Word description -

Squash the ends inward at the loci of the ellipse enough to get a "relatively straight" end. Stretch the center (but maintain a curve) to get the length you want. (Like you did in the second drawing.)


Good luck,
Ted

Chris Padilla
01-16-2004, 4:33 PM
For mathematical formulas you can go to this site:
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Superellipse.html

I love that site. I like the Scrophularia nodosa myself although stretched out more rectangular like. :D

Pete Lamberty
01-16-2004, 4:38 PM
Hi Todd, I didn't know this was for your Bubinga slab. From your first post the ellipse is the most pleasing to my eyes. But now that I know that it is for the big bubinga, I think the ellipse with the 18" radius ends would be best. Pete

Jamie Buxton
01-17-2004, 1:48 PM
I second Ted's suggestion of a super-ellipse. I've made dining tables with them. I've watched the conversational dynamics around them, and they work very well. On a largish rectangular table, the people on the corners seem isolated. On a true elliptical table, the ends are too pointy, and the people sitting there don't have anyplace to put their silverware. A super-ellipse seems just right. It is rectangular enough to fit in a rectangular room, but oval enough to include everybody in the conversation.

At the risk of losing a lot of readers, I'm going to break out the math here. I'm also going to make a recommendation at the end for those of you who follow the math, or who use that web site.

Super-ellipses are solutions to the equation

(x/rx)^ c + (y/ry)^ c = 1

where rx is the x axis length, ry is the y axis length, and ^ means exponentiation. c=2 is the classical ellipse. As c increases above 2, the oval gets a little more "square-shouldered" than the ellipse.

For dining tables, I like c in the 2.8-3 area.

Todd, I'm going to send you a pdf showing plots of some of these curves.


Jamie

Todd Burch
01-18-2004, 9:29 AM
Jamie emailed me a DXF file of the super ellipses, and via Corel Draw import/export, here they are (Sketchup just couldn't handle it all... :( )

The middle one is not so bad. Thanks Jamie. (I think I'm going to have too many choices for my client to be able to make up their minds...)

Todd.

Byron Trantham
01-18-2004, 9:41 AM
Todd, Blunt for me for the same reasons already posted. We had an oval table for many years and my wife always hated it because of the "uncomfortable fit" at both ends. I ended up making a long rectangular table but I like the aesthetic qualities of the blunt oval.

Ted Shrader
01-18-2004, 10:40 AM
. . . I think I'm going to have too many choices for my client to be able to make up their minds. . .

Todd -

The middle version is what I had in mind, but did a poor job of describing.

As far as choices for the client, why not provide a rectangle, ellipse and super-ellipse as choices. Put the sketches on separate pieces of paper so each can be studied individually.

Good luck,
Ted

ps - How thick will it be finished out? Supports - trestle or legs w/ apron? Have you thought edge treatment yet? A big radius goes well with the super-ellipse shape.

Daniel Rabinovitz
01-18-2004, 12:09 PM
I'll be blunt
I like the Blunt
Daniel

Jason Roehl
01-18-2004, 12:32 PM
Jamie emailed me a DXF file of the super ellipses, and via Corel Draw import/export, here they are (Sketchup just couldn't handle it all... :( )

The middle one is not so bad. Thanks Jamie. (I think I'm going to have too many choices for my client to be able to make up their minds...)

Todd.

Todd, now I like the 3rd from the top in your 3rd pic of sketches. It seems to have the most functionality and still a good compromise in shape.

Chris Padilla
01-19-2004, 12:53 PM
I with Jason...3rd from the top. It is more rectangular but still has nicely softened corners.


Todd, once you have decided (er, the client has decided) the shape, I will be curious to see how you implement it. I am an engineer by trade (EE) and so I see a lot of math going into my designs and I would try to be faithful to that but there are A LOT of clever, better ways to implement fairly complicated equations and I see woodworkers leading the way on those jigs.

Ken Frantz
01-23-2004, 10:45 PM
I vote for the BLUNT END!!!!

Who wants to set at the corner of a round table!!!!!

My nickels worth!!!

KEN

Jamie Buxton
01-23-2004, 11:48 PM
I with Jason...3rd from the top. It is more rectangular but still has nicely softened corners.


Todd, once you have decided (er, the client has decided) the shape, I will be curious to see how you implement it. I am an engineer by trade (EE) and so I see a lot of math going into my designs and I would try to be faithful to that but there are A LOT of clever, better ways to implement fairly complicated equations and I see woodworkers leading the way on those jigs.


Chris ---
This one isn't too difficult. I use a shareware program that solves the equations and plots the curves. It also can list a table of coordinates for the curve. I lay a bunch of the points out on the blank for the tabletop. Then I connect the dots -- either by eye, or with a flexible wood strip. I cut the shape out with a good saber saw and belt-sand to clean up any irregularities.
Jamie

Tyler Howell
01-24-2004, 7:46 AM
What does the guy with the check book say????

Todd Burch
01-24-2004, 8:58 AM
I'll take him the designs next week. Priority right now is his study. And, that's the big $$ job too.

John Miliunas
01-24-2004, 9:16 AM
[QUOTE=Chris Padilla]I with Jason...3rd from the top. It is more rectangular but still has nicely softened corners.

QUOTE]

I think Jason and Chris have the right idea, but I like the second from the bottom in your last set of samples. :D It would still add the rounding effect, but leave plenty of room for elbows and you retain more of that beautiful wood real estate. :cool: