Lead Paint Removal

[Greg Crawford]

I just had a friend tell me he's buying a house that was built in the 1890's. It has all wood floors and walls, but everything has been painted. He wants to hire me to help restore it as much as possible to original condition. The wall boards all have to come down for wiring, insulation and ductwork. My idea is to take the boards off the wall as carefully as possible, then run them through a drum sander to take off the paint. I have a single stage dust collector with a 1 micron bag that does a good job with the sander. I'm just wondering if anyone knows whether or not that's a good method to contain the paint, which more than likely has lead in it. The bottom bag is a heavy duty plastic garbage bag, so it wouldn't have to be dumped into anything else to take it to the appropriate waste facility. This seems to me a better way than taking it off the boards while they're still on the wall, then having to try to collect the paint scrapings, chips, dust, etc.

BTW, I plan on wearing a respirator no matter what the method.

For the floors, the only thing I can think of would be a floor sander with good dust collection capabilities.

Any comments? I'd especially like to hear from anyone that might have experience with remediating lead paint.

Thanks in advance,

Greg

[Jim Becker]

Sanding is perhaps the most dangerous way to remove lead paint...personally, I'd use a stripper and scrap off the softened material onto a plastic sheet that can in turn be disposed of properly. (There may also be local regulations about this if there is any kind of permitting/inspections being done on the job)

[Lloyd McKinlay]

Dry sanding lead based paint is never recommended, in fact it is illegal in some areas without HEPA filters. Although you may wear a respirator the lead residue will be in your hair and clothing plus your shop area (which would need to be wet dusted plus wet dusting all the tools inside and out). All in all not a good idea.

Dumond Chemicals manufacturers Peel Away which they claim can be used for lead abatement, and there may be others. Haven't used it but I will be on some upcoming projects. Even after chemical stripping I believe the government doesn't recommend sanding, just damp steel wool to clean the surface.

[Greg Crawford]

Wow, I'm glad I asked. I hadn't thought about the dust residue. I think I've seen the Dumond product. I'll look into that.

No matter what, it's going to be a big job. 2 story, over 2000 square feet, inside and out, including ceilings.

Thanks

[David DeCristoforo]

In addition to the above advice, if you are going to be working under a permit or on a job where a permit has been issued, you really need to inquire with the local building department as to any abatement requirements they may have. In some areas they even require a special license to deal with hazardous materials (which lead based paint certainly qualifies as).

[Ben Grunow]

I would avoid removal as the boards will often break as they can be dry and brittle due to age and lack of back priming.

You can paint over lead paint to encapsulate it if kids are the concern. Architectural resto means stripping as far as I am concerned.

[Don Bullock]

In addition to the above advice, if you are going to be working under a permit or on a job where a permit has been issued, you really need to inquire with the local building department as to any abatement requirements they may have. In some areas they even require a special license to deal with hazardous materials (which lead based paint certainly qualifies as).

In many places lead paint must be removed by a company licensed for that type of work. The removal and disposal is highly regulated.

[Larry Fox]

As others have mentioned, PeelAway will do the job but it is meeeesssssyyyy!!!! There is a product out there called a SilentPaintRemover DAGS that is nothing short of fantastic. It is an infared light that breaks the bond between the paint and the substrate and you then scrape it off with a scraper. They also claim that it does not heat the paint to the point where the lead melts like a heat gun. The paint comes off in like a putty so there is not dust like with sanding.

However, please do your research

BTW: I am completely unaffiliated with the SilentPaintRemover, I just have used it in the past with good result.

[Wilbur Pan]

A big caution about dealing with lead paint removal:

In my day job I'm a pediatrician, and so lead toxicity is something I'm very familiar with. At lead levels of 10 micrograms/dL, a 5 year old will start losing IQ points. Doing the calculations for a typical 5 year old's weight and figuring out the blood volume, that's only 144 micrograms, or 5 millionths of an ounce of lead that kid has to swallow before his IQ starts to take a hit. Each 5 millionths of an ounce of lead will knock off about 5 IQ points. This is an additive effect: every additional 5 millionths of an ounce of lead will knock off an additional 5 IQ points.

Other things associated with lead exposure: hyperactivity, failure to graduate high school, reading disability, delinquency, and hearing deficits. After 360 micrograms of lead ingestion in that 5 year old kid, anemia starts to kick in.

By the way, the reason kids will eat lead containing paint is that it tastes somewhat sweet.

The usual exposure source for lead for kids is old peeling lead paint. But as the old housing stock either gets torn down for new construction (think about the house that used to be next door that was demolished for a newer house), or increased awareness of lead paint has kicked in and more people are painting over or decontaminating their old houses, it seems that these days if kids are going to pick up lead, it's from contaminated dirt. That would include wherever you might be disposing of paint sludge from a stripping process, or the dust from sandblasting leaded paint.

This is why lead abatement is such a big deal, and why there are som many regulations involved with it. If it's not done correctly, and some of that lead gets into the dirt and dust, and then winds up in a kid, it doesn't take very much to make the kid lose IQ points.

Lead probably affects an adult brain as well, but since I'm a pediatrician, I don't really care. ;)

[Greg Crawford]

So far, I now have the folks checking for regulations regarding lead paint removal, and I’ve suggested they have the paint tested first. Maybe we’ll get lucky and the lead paint has already been removed. It sounds as though the infrared remover will be the most logical if there is lead paint. It was already one of the options we had discussed.

As far as leaving the boards in place, I quite agree that they are better left undisturbed. However, the wiring is very old, there is no insulation and there is no central heat or air. In addition, the roof has been leaking for an unknown period, so inspecting for mold will be important. All the windows have leaks, as well. In other words, the house almost needs to be gutted. The new owners want to keep it as original as possible, but realize the will be some damage that will mean replacing damaged material.

They haven’t gotten everything firmed up on the sale, so with all this, they may just drop the whole thing.

Thanks for all the wise words. If they do get the house, I'll post pics of the progress.

Greg

[Matt Meiser]

This is an additive effect: every additional 5 millionths of an ounce of lead will knock off an additional 5 IQ points.

So shouldn't this mean that today's kids are smarter since we don't use lead based paint any more? ;)

[Rick Lizek]

Watch your terminology. Lead abatement must done by licensed professionals Remodeling can be done by anyone. In Mass we have some of the strictest lead paint laws. They also have encapsulent paints for lead. Removint the wood is the simplest way to do it. Lead was banned from paint in 1978 so there is a lot still out there. There's always
the story of the new house with the super deal on paint...old lead paint that is.

[Wilbur Pan]

So shouldn't this mean that today's kids are smarter since we don't use lead based paint any more? ;)
The IQ advantage was counteracted by the development of video games. ;)

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

If you are doing this as a commercial venture - and you did mention being paid so I think it's commercial - you might want to familiarize yourself with your state and local rules for testing and disposal. You may need a disposal permit or even a haz-mat license depending on state law.

[Matt Meiser]

Lead was banned from paint in 1978 so there is a lot still out there. There's always
the story of the new house with the super deal on paint...old lead paint that is.

Actually I was recently told that the 1978 ban was just for residential use--for commercial use it wasn't until later. I was working on a project at a wastewater plant originally built in 1982 that was being expanded and they had to do both lead and asbestos abatement.

You KNOW some of that commercial paint got used residentially at some point.

[Jason Roehl]

You don't need a license to dispose of any of that paint. Double bag it and seal it shut and put it out with regular household waste. Households cannot generate "toxic waste". The garbage guys don't pick through your trash to know what's in it. There's a good reason your trash isn't scrutinized...if they did, people would start finding "alternate means" of disposing of supposedly hazardous materials--like digging a hole in their back yard and dumping it in, which would be much worse than it going to a landfill where runoff and seepage may be controlled.

I'm not saying you should just pour your used motor oil in the trash or things like that, though...I'm just saying there is a certain level of "don't ask, don't tell" that goes on.

Do a Google search on "Lead Safe Work Practices". This is the economically reasonable alternative to abatement. Abatement requires a licensed contractor who is going to take you to the cleaners financially. LSWP will cost you a little bit, but you can do it yourself and be fairly confident that your exposure to lead will be minimal and the residue will be minimal as well. HUD now requires all contractors who work on projects they fund, in whole or in part, to be certified (not licensed) in LSWP, if the project is a remodel of a pre-1978 structure found to contain lead paint, and more than 2 s.f. of paint will be disturbed. Abatement requirements caused too many structures to go untouched and become unsaleable eyesores because of the costs involved. Thus the LSWP.

Thankfully, the one time I worked on a project that received some HUD funding, the city paid for my LSWP class/certification (8 hr. class followed by a test--I scored 100%), and all the paint-disturbing was done by someone else prior to my involvement.

[Jeff Raymond]

Burning off lead paint has a memorable smell and there's an art to it. I don't know about the permit stuff, but did a small house I had at one time with a Milwaukee heat gun. Problem was, after getting the big potato chips off with the heat, it still needed to be sanded.

If this is the reason for my bad memory instead of my age, at least I can remember doing the project?

Oh well.

[adam prochaska]

I am currently removing lead paint in my home and so far have only used a gel stripper. The fumes are horrible so you need to make sure you are well ventilated. For my indoor mill work i ordered THE SILENT PAINT REMOVER. I am supposed to receive it tomorrow so i'll let you know how it works. According to the website, it is supposed to bubble the paint without vaporizing the lead. I will still wear a respirator.

My two cents....buy a professional scraper. I am using the scrapers from THE SILENT PAINT REMOVER website and absolutely love them. They work much better then the cheap ones you find at Home Depot or Lowes. The quality of the scrapers is why i ordered the infrared heat gun. I hope it is of the same quality.

[Chip Olson]

By "wall boards", I assume you mean the entire walls, and not just the trim?

I did extensive deleading work on my house when we bought it; MA has a training program in moderate-risk deleading for homeowners. If the boards are indeed lead paint, the best way I can think of to deal with them is to have them removed by a professional deleader and send them out to be stripped. The stripping is surprisingly inexpensive; I had this done to some antique heating registers in my previous house.

If you want to remove the wall boards yourself, cover the floors with 6-mil plastic, seal off the rooms you're not working in, and pry them off very carefully, misting the joints with a water sprayer beforehand. When you're done, take the plastic down very carefully and then vacuum the floors with a HEPA vacuum cleaner (these can be rented) and mop them with a strong TSP solution.

Get a deleader to look at the floors. The only way I can think of to deal with them remotely safely is to strip them in place. Sanding will fill the house with lead dust and you will never get rid of it.

[Chip Olson]

Oh, and make sure you're in compliance with all applicable regulations etc. MA lead law is among the strictest in the nation, since we have so many old houses.

[Matt Chantry]

I worked on the project management team for an exterior restoration of an old house two year ago.

We used a chemical stripper for the project. It was incredibly involved, but we chose it without hesitation. There was never any question of sanding.

However, aside from the legal issues, there is the ethical one. Just because no one might find out doesn't mean that it should be dumped into the trash. I don't mean to preach, just my thoughts.

Parks Canada now uses the Silent Paint Remover for the work they do throughout Western Canada, and they speak very highly of it. It is effective and efficient. If you hang it from above, you can leave it one one section to heat, while you scrape the previous. It moves along quite quickly.

Edifice Magazine, a Canadian publication that is easily found through a Google search, (I don't know the rules on posting links), has done a lot of hands-on articles on historic restoration. And Cooper, the Editor, is great at answering questions.

Good luck on the project.

M