New Business needs help with Logo

[Vince Williams]

Hey everyone, hope everyone has a great and safe 4th.
What I am asking for assistance with is an logo for my enraving business. I am not the graphic design person I wish I was!! The name of my shop is
J&M Laser Engraving, this comes from my 2 youngest sons names, we have a 19 year old he tells us if we do not use his inital that is fine, he's in the Air Force in Iraq. If anyone could or be willing to help I would be very thankful.

Vince Williams:) :)

[Stanley Waldrup]

Hello Vince, I am in the same boat. I have been trying to come up with something for the Laser it Up name my self. I was thinking of getting one of the Logo programs and playing with it. Just learning CorelDraw X3 and Hoping something Cathes my Eye..

[Mike Null]

X3 is one of the finest drawing programs there is and one that designers use everyday to develop logos.

If you will draw something up in pen or pencil and post it I'm sure you'll find plenty of help in refining it.

I would also suggest that the name of your business include the word engraving.

Yeah, I know, mine doesn't, but I had the big idea that somebody with a pocket full of money would buy my company name. Never happened.

[Dave Jones]

There's a lot of things to consider when making a logo. It can be a simple one made from block letters without any real graphics (ie: a large "J&M" over smaller words "Laser Engraving"). Or it could be along those same lines with a graphic shape behind it or around it. Or it could be primarily graphic with the name laced into the graphics. Or there could be a separate graphic from the name and that graphic could be scaled large or small relative to the name itself depending on where you use it, or..... many more styles.

Perhaps a good place to start is to look at other logos on the web, not just for this type of business, and think about the basic style of logo you want to start from.

[Mike Null]

Just to add to what Dave says, When I'm designing logos the first thing I take into consideration is how it will look in black and white. Even though you will certainly want color (s) in your logo, you'll need to convert it to black and white for various things such as invoices, newspaper/magazine ads or you just want to laser engraving your logo on some of your products black and white is important.

The other considerations include: how it will look on business cards, signs, invoices, ads, labels, etc.

In the real world our logos aren't nearly as important as our business name. That's what you really want your customers to remember.

[Michael Kowalczyk]

I agree also but would add one more thing. I was told to make sure your business name tells them what you do but do not limit yourself either. the TOS does not allow m to give my example so I will give you a pseudo one and what to watch out for. Do not give it a name of a town unless you plan on never moving ie... "Podunk town laser engraving"

What if you offer more than laser engraving? Look through the yellow pages and see which ones stand out and tell you what they do.
Maybe something like "PT Engraving and Laser services".
Well you get the idea.

The name of one of our business' was conceived that way and my 5 year old daughter at the time helped. She is sixteen now and on a mission trip in Auckland, New Zealand and heading over to Sydney, Australia in a few days. She would always repeat this one word when she was at the shop and even to this day when people call us they use it to. Not just because it is in our business name but because that is what they are calling for and need.
Hope this may have planted a seed or shed light and supplied some water on something you already have,(95)

[Dave Jones]

I think people are maybe treading a little too lightly after the recent links to a web site were removed. I seriously doubt that the creators of the Creek will be upset if you mention the name of your company in a discussion of how to name a new company.

Linking to a commercial site that you might benefit from is against the TOS, and so is blatant self promotion. But that doesn't mean that you can't talk about how you came up with the name of your business when others are trying to figure out how to do the same thing.

[art baylor]

Micheal:
I agree with Dave, 'fess up! What is your company name?
Art

[Craig Hogarth]

We went to instalogo.com to design ours. It's do it yourself and you only pay once you design one you like. Once paid for, it's available for download in several formats.

Here's the one we ended up with.

[RickT Harding]

I've had to come up with some graphics stuff and I've found the sitepoint.com marketplace the way to do it. You basically post what you're looking for and a prize $$. Then different people come in and compete with their ideas. End of the day (well sometimes a week) you pick a winner and they send you the graphics files.

You just have to be really specific in terms of types of files you want, color scheme's etc.

http://www.sitepoint.com/contests/

That's how I got my logo
http://avwsystems.com/static/images/logo.gif

Here's a link to the content I held. It's long and there are some truly bad designs in there, but you'll see how it goes.
http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409081

[Tom Radachi]

I'm not a laser engraver, but use my Epilog Summit to compliment my business which is creating primarily pens of various woods and acrylics. I wanted to have the name start with a letter towards the front of the alphabet. "Art" fit that bill and really describes what this is. I added the studio on the end to make it feel a bit more "cozy", as well as to secure the domain name that was available.
Here's a copy of my logo. I've also incorporated it into my business cards that I make on my laser.

[James Mooney]

Hi Vince, Like you - I'm new to the laser business, in fact I'm only at the final stages of researching it as a business and haven't committed yet to buying a machine :o . Unlike you - I have spent the last 20 years in the graphic design business! For what its worth, here's my advice;

Logos and business identities are all about talking to your customer in an appropriate manner. Ideally before you make any decisions about names and logos you need to decide on who your customers are. This can be really top level stuff (not deeply scientific!) for example are they local busineses or local children. Sometimes the nature of the product holds the clue ie is it a craft product aimed at local tourism or security marking for a hospital. I know these examples are possibly a bit extreme but they illustrate the point (I hope!)

The name you've chosen is a fine honest name - the "Does exactly what it says on the tin" approach. It's not sexy but depending on what market (type of customer) you are looking for it may be absolutely perfect, however if your customers are local children looking to get their iPods etc engraved or "pimped" it may not be so good!

In essence it is as much about how you say it as what you say. Once it is appropriate for your target customer it will work fine, everything else after that is purely subjective and your personal taste is probably better than mine! Hope I haven't confused you further.
Best of luck with the business!

[Mike Null]

I like James' advice. It makes good sense.

Tom, your logo is great and I think makes use of James' point as well.

If you were asked to describe the following logos could you do it?

Porter Cable
Jet
Powermatic
Grizzly
Delta
DeWalt
Makita
Epilog
Universal
Laserpro
Trotec

My bet is that you can't get half of them exactly right yet these are all brands those of us on SMC should be familiar with. We know the names, but the logos--now that's another matter.

My point is--be happy with your logo because not too many others are really going to pay a lot of attention.

[Michael Kowalczyk]

Hey Mike and others,
Good point but I disagree partially. The names you listed have one thing in common that most of us may not. A HUGE advertising budget! You recognize the names because they all paid BIG money to get the word out and maintain a consistent advertising budget, that we pay for every time we buy their product, and many of us may not have the 10's of thousands of dollars to advertise in 10 trade magazines on a monthly basis or have a full time webmaster. Most of us wear many hats if not all of them and I think having your business name closely define what you do is an added bonus in the overall marketing plan. Many people have chosen names that define nothing but it puts them in the front, alphabetical at least, or at the beginning of the yellow page listings and similar. An example might be "AAA Distributors". Now if you are looking alphabetically, they will come up on the first page but does it mean anything? Not to me. But if it was the first listing under " Plywood Suppliers" then they probably get a lot of calls just because they are first. Now if they had "AAA Plywood Distributors" it covers 2 areas but then it may limit them to those only looking for plywood and miss out on other products they may sell as well.

In this day of search engines being a driving force for website traffic, your keywords allow you to be found without the business name having much to do with what it's actual product are. But the easier it is to remember the business name and what it offers, IMHO, the more business traffic/leads you will have. The rest is up to you and your sales team.

Look through your yellow pages and see what or who you are up against. Think of all the keywords you may want to use for your business, do searches and see what/who comes up. Will you stay local, regional, national, global? These will also help you in your process and benefit you substantially in the long run.

Food for thought. Does any one know the difference between a "Company" and a "Business"?(310)

Have a Blessed day,

[Mike Null]

Michael

I think you make my point. It is the name not the logo that we recognize and yes they do spend heavily but we still don't know what their logo looks like.

I could have mentioned really big advertisers but chose these because they are more related to SMC.

[Marc Myer]

Excellent advice, all.
Like James, I have spent the last 20 years as a graphic designer, and it's still my day job. Logos are funny things. Companies can spend months and LOTS of money (millions!) getting their logo just right. And it does make a difference. But for those of us who don't have piles of cash and lots of time, we can shortcut the process.
What I would do is first find a logo you really like--one that seems to hit you just right. Then figure out why you like it.

Then, to restate what has already been said as well:
1. What size will you need it? Logos should be easily understood, so if you're using it in a tiny size, like biz cards, make it legible (simple).
2. It should look good in black and white, especially if you'll be making wood biz cards!
3. You should like it.
4. Did I mention simplicity? I designed a logo for a military organization, and the Admirals kept wanting to add more symbols: aircraft, bridge, a guy, etc. By the time they were happy, it would have to be reproduced in a huge scale just to fit everything in! I told them they'd need to start over, heh heh.

That said, I seem to always be changing my logos. Hey, let us know where you go with this, and I'll be glad to help refine it. Same goes for you other Creekers. Hope I haven't created a monster!

[Mark Winlund]

[quote=Michael Kowalczyk;615711]

Food for thought. Does any one know the difference between a "Company" and a "Business"?(310)

/quote]

A company is an organization that you pour money and energy into, spending 80 hrs a week at it.

A business is a company that makes a profit.

Mark

[Michael Kowalczyk]

Hey Mike,
Sorry if it look liked I stepped on your toes:D . Did not mean to. I just wanted to bring it into focus. This is a good thread and great interaction from all. That's what brainstorming is all about. We all get something from it.

We may not know the logo specifically but if you see a black and yellow cordless power tool being used some where, rest assured it is probably a Dewalt.

I personally give more weight on the name than a logo. unless you plan on having uniforms, hats, coffee mugs, embroidered shirts and signage on all your product you produce, I would not focus on that aspect. Laser services and CNC shops perform a service and that's where you should focus. If you were going to design and make your own product and needed name recognition to promote it, then the logo would carry more weight but never more than 40-45% IMHO.

For those that have asked about my Business name, here are a few past ones: Turnkey Renovators- We did complete make ready of a house bought by out of state real estate investors, so the tenant could turn the key and move in. Also had Logical Computerized Services. I did several computerized services ( in the late 1980's before everyone had a PC) tax preparation, Bi weekly Mortgage reduction, Pre-employement and tenant screening, Skip tracing and was the First Credit report broker to use an Apple Macintosh quadra 610 DOS compatible PC to retrieve Credit reports in the Good old U.S.A.. I thought they were all Logical services performed on a computer so hence the name was conceived. Also had Logical Solutions when I sold NSA water filters. Can anyone relate to them? Once again solutions worked great because I was involved with water and solving drinking water problems. So you can see that there was forethought on the name and I did not worry about the logo because it was someone else's product. I was doing a service.

Keep em coming. This a great feed back.
I hope the original poster, Vince, is enjoying this half as much as we are,:) (420)

[Michael Kowalczyk]

Hey Mark,
That's funny but not where I am going. Also there is a difference when you spell it "Company" and "company". I know it may sound petty but it can make all the difference, legally.

[Mike Null]

Michael

No problem, I'm enjoying this as well.

I would like to call everybody's attention to a post by Keith Outten earlier today.

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=616065#post616065

[Vince Williams]

Yes Michael I am enjoying reading all the replys about my question and to each other. I want to say thanks to all who have replied, keep it coming!!ha again thanks to all
Vince:D :D

[Bob Cole]

I'm new to business ownership and am having similar issues with a name and target market myself. I am not relying or need to rely on the engraving business for the essentials, but would be good for the rest of the family to participate.

I have a business degree but as most of you know, schooling is far removed from the real world. I was curious what you think of the business names below. I would also like to know if any of you operate the same business with multiple aliases (identities). This is common practice to test certain markets and compete with no competition.

Cole Laser Designs
Blue Heron Engraving

I know I counted my chickens before they hatched as I don't have a primary focus of products.

[Ed Maloney]

I'm new to business ownership and am having similar issues with a name and target market myself. I am not relying or need to rely on the engraving business for the essentials, but would be good for the rest of the family to participate.

I have a business degree but as most of you know, schooling is far removed from the real world. I was curious what you think of the business names below. I would also like to know if any of you operate the same business with multiple aliases (identities). This is common practice to test certain markets and compete with no competition.

Cole Laser Designs
Blue Heron Engraving

I know I counted my chickens before they hatched as I don't have a primary focus of products.

I approached this in a funny way. I brainstormed (with myself and wife) business names and then checked the availability of the internet domain name to see if it was taken. After pages and pages and pages of possible names I had to go to a very basic one so I could get my business licensed with the state. It really is hard to come up with a name to cover all the things that a laser can do. Just like you, I am playing the field and working on finding my niche.

[Brian Robison]

I'm one of those people that named my business for where I thought it was going to go, silly me. The business leads and I just follow.
FYI we named it Metal Markers, so now we do trophies, awards, license plates, ..............
The one saving grace is that the Logo is a big M with a 2 in the corner, (like M squared) so it may end up being M Squared instead.

[Marc Myer]

Ed's got a great point. See what you can get in the way of a domain name: they're cheap and easy to buy, even if you're not internet-savvy.
I personally like "Blue Heron' because you can create a nice visual image for the logo, but it wouldn't hurt to try both.

And remember, 85% of learning is visual.

[Ed Maloney]

As an additional point, I have the domain name but just a stub page right now. Through Yahoo it cost me about $30 for 3 years (I think, but real cheap.) But I did upgrade email so that I can use the domain name in my emails so when I email vendors and/or customers it gives a more professional appearence. For now the bottom line is that I really just reserved the name for a fully functional web site (more money) later.

[AL Ursich]

I named my business Pocono Digital Woodshop. I am located in the tourist area of the Pennsylvania Pocono Mountains. I have a Woodshop to make tourist stuff. In the other building for dust control I have 2 older Laser Engravers which I still don't use as often as I want to... I also have 2 Sears Compucarve units and design the carved projects in the Laser Shop and listen to the carve machine in the wood shop on the intercom. I also have Sublimation Equipment with the Epson R1800 and a 16 x 20 swinger press. I also have a Older Star 912 Rotary Engraver and most recently added CLTT Color Laser Toner Transfer to the shop. All the toys to make some interesting projects. So with all the Computers to cut wood I put the Digital in the name. Hence Pocono Digital Woodshop

I have been working 12 to 14 hours a day for the last 3 months 7 days a week making inventory for the future shows and store stock trying to get ahead.

AL

[Bob Cole]

I've been trying to come up with a logo that can be used as a demo piece and relate to the business. Nothing was obvious with Cole Laser Designs. guess I could make a stocking with a lump of coal in it, but doesn't appear very appealing :)

I have this Blue Heron that keeps landing on my dock to fish, so thought I could do a lot with that and there are all sorts of images I could use along with the 300+ pictures I took of the Heron since it has been fishing off the dock.

Oh, by the way, I made my first dollar the other day. It was an egraving on a Leatherman. I did a crappy job so only charged him a dollar :D I need a lot more practice creating jigs for this type of engraving.

[Nancy Laird]

Vince, we named our business "D&N Specialties" about 24 years ago, when we first started making money from our woodworking. The "D&N" stands for our names, but we really brainstormed about the rest of the name. We finally decided to use "specialties" because all of the work we do is specially designed and built for our customers. Since we have fingers in so many pies -- custom furniture and cabinetry, craft fair items, lasering, turning, teaching, repair work, etc. -- the specialties name has worked well for us.

You can see our logo on our business card here: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=44283. When it's printed in color, the light/dark striations showing on the card show up as looking like wood.

I agree with the others that your name needs to be a little more "general" than it is. Are you intending to limit yourself to laser engraving? If so, it's fine. But what if you want to branch out into other forms of engraving--diamond drag, YAG--or other ways of doing things? Then you'll have a dilemma because you've limited yourself by your business name.

Just a little food for thought.

Nancy

[Joni Campbell]

http://www.whiteriverstencilco.com/fpdb/images/theme0/logotext.gif

[Joni Campbell]

Ok now I am worried mine is too much...but I like it and oh boy...Tell me what you think
Thanks much

[Mike Null]

I like it very much. It looks good, sounds good and conveys what you do.

If you decide to engrave things other than stencils you can include that on your web site and sign without changing the name of your business.

[Vince Williams]

Joni the logo is great!!!!

[Thad Nickoley]

I think that is impresive Joni.

[Mike Null]

Bob Cole

I like your idea of Blue Heron Engraving. It's yours, your idea, your story to tell and it will work as well as anything else.

Besides, it lends itself to some great artwork.

Take a look in the yellow pages or on the internet. The names aren't so great.

Look at mine, it doesn't even mention engraving. I had the brilliant idea that I could sell that name to some rich doctor or hair transplant business. So much for brilliant ideas.

[Bill Cunningham]

My business has morphed quite a bit since I started 20 years ago.. It started out as TechniSoft for 'Technical Software' doing a data base for the National Energy board, as well as RF engineering software. Times changed, and it morphed into TechniSoft Printing & Promotional. When the Web came along, we registered TechniSoft1.com (TechniSoft.com was taken) I also felt that domain names if properly chosen, can increase in value. I printed ham radio QSL Cards, so I registered QSLCardPrinter.com, Paper Shipping/inventory/IS09000 Tags were also a product, so I registered TagPrinter.com.. When we aquired the Laser, We Registered LaserCraft.ca Which pretty well covers everything else.. We no longer print tags or QSL Cards, so those domains are for sale..
What you start with can change at anytime. It pays to be flexible..