OK guys--You're doing it to me--I feel like I'm getting sucked in (or suckered in)

[mark page]

Ok fellers & gals, here's the dilemma. I have been lurking here looking at your different projects and must admit I find them intriguing. My experiences with a lathe are limited, and must admit in my younger days I just wasn't drawn to one. This is exclusive of the high school shop accident that left me standing in my skivvies one day, although that incident didn't help my love relationships with lathes. I just felt that turning wood was not my calling at the time, so I didn't bother trying to learn.
Well on to the dilemma. I am a flat wood worker and that eats up most of my spare time after the 60 hr week day job. I try to do a respectible secondary income working at my own pace, although I am getting behind in work. So far I have told LOML that a lathe is off limits and do not let me talk about getting one, and I've held up my vow so far. My biggest fear is if I let one in the shop, I won't get anything else done as far as flat work is involved. And also afraid if I get one that the enjoyment from flatwork may dimenish some, and I don't want that either, as that may affect the secondary income.
Ok some questions abound and a lot of them. I would call most of what I see here as an art creation, and I have the artistic ability of a broken radio. I'm more of a facts and figures type guy. Give me boards and I can make anything and see the completed project in my mind before starting. That's my forte. What I can't see is taking a chunk of wood, putting on a lathe and envisioning what I would want as the outcome. Maybe that can be learned some, I don't know. Never tried it before. Question: How do you all manage your time between flatwork and turning, and still keep the same enthusiasm for both types of work? Dilemma again--My brother took over the last family business from my deceased father of tree trimming and removal. I have watched some beautiful wood end up in several outdoor wood furnaces for winter heat. Instead of discarding this wood, I'd love to take advantage of using some of it. This could be an endless supply of decent turning wood. The only problem would be getting him to take time to cull out some wood. I'm 125 miles away and can't be there very often to do it for him, so that would be to him "a hindrance and slow him down at his job" (he's funny that way, rather discard it than take the time).
Question again--How many here make a secondary income from both methods of woodworking? If I take away from one I would feel a need for the other to step in and justify the means. I have a lifetime of experience with flatwork, zero with turning, so I know the learning and experience curve may take a very long time to get to an "acceptable" level. I can make a decent living off my day job alone, but the gratifications of a secondary income from something I enjoy and making something with my two hands that will be appreciated and passed down through generations and outlast me is what really enspires me. I keep thinking, yep I can get one when I retire and have more time, but the idea of 20 years of potential learning and experience time will have passed by.
Other questions--Equipment, if starting from scratch in turning, some of your suggestions.
Well enough rambling on. Kudo's to you people for opening my mind to turning where once it was totally closed, but my biggest fear would be turning my back on the rest of the shop. I'll give credit where credit is due, you guys are trying to suck me in like a vacuum cleaner, lol. Any suggestions, advice, etc are greatly appreciated.

[Hank Walczak]

A thought.... Marry them both. Use your flat work skills to assemble the boards into the stock for segmented turning. No big hunks of tree trunk, no waiting for the wood to dry, etc. You cut up boards into segments, glue them up into rings, and you're well on your way to creating some "artwork". Problem solved. You still get to play with your jointer, planer, etc. and then get to finish it up on a lathe. SWEET. Good Luck. The vortex WILL consume you...:D

Hank

[Travis Stinson]

Flat****????? What's that? http://joetonich.forumup.us/images/smiles/cocos_rotella.gif












Now, is that still an "illusion" to profanity???????:rolleyes:

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Once you start turning ....nothing else will matter.......me...I'll get my shop finished.....someday....

[Jonathon Spafford]

Go for it!

I don't know that there is a long learning curve! Travis Stinson and Mark Cothren and Jim Ketron all turn phenomenal work (for example Mark Cothren just had a piece bought by Sam Maloof from a gallery, so his work can't be too bad ;) :D). Anyway, (you guys correct me if I'm wrong) I think these guys have only been turning less than four years. Shane Whitlock has only been turning a couple months I think and his work is also outstanding! There are a lot more that have some amazing work and yet have been only turning a short time. You should do a search for their posts to see there work... you'll be amazed! So the learning curve doesn't have to be long and as you have lots of experience with wood it shouldn't be hard to pick this up. The main thing that you will need for the rest of your life (cause that how long you'll be turning) is REALLY deep pockets... yep, the spending don't end ;) Anyway, have fun and don't fight it! ;)

[Bernie Weishapl]

work????? What's that? http://joetonich.forumup.us/images/smiles/cocos_rotella.gif

ROFLOL Travis you got that right. My tablesaw is now a counter top for my turnings and tools. :eek::D Ken has been or trying to work on his shop for how long now????????????????

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Bernie.......17 months ago I was about 1 week.....maybe 40 hours from having that shop finished.....Then the lathe showed up.....It's now been several thousands of dollars worth of turning stuff....and I'm only 39 hours and 30 minutes from having it finished......It's become a retirement project.......It'll get done when I retire......Maybe...:o :rolleyes: :D

[mark page]

That's one of the things I'm worried about boys is that I would take a positive cashflow venture and turn it into a negative cashflow venture REAL quick. lol

[paul ashman]

A thought on secondary income, I am a College Instructor by trade (Pastry Chef/Culinary Arts), but work part-time with my wife at a local company that employs turners around the country (India too) to do repetitive piece work. They are always looking for turners. This is not the proper place to discuss commercial dealings, but e-mail me if you like and I will fill you in. The prospect of this was a major part of convincing the LOML to turn our 2 car garage into a one car garage!

[Gary Herrmann]

You can get flatwork done, its just that you don't really feel like it. I've got a big pile of cherry stickered in my basement that is earmarked for chair rail and and a bed.

I'll get to it. Really. But I have these pens people have ordered and I want to turn some more pear and that piece of curly maple and...

[Patrick Taylor]

Never did flatwork, maybe never will.... but never say never, I guess. I'll just say "not much" instead. :D

[Andy Hoyt]

work? Isn't that what those in the concrete business do when they're pouring slabs?

If not, I have no idea what you're talking about Mark.

And shame on you for using terms like cashflow, living, and profit center in the turning forum.

We prefer simpler terms like debt, maxxed-out, and will work for bowl blanks.

[Dennis Peacock]

Mark,

I'm a woodturner that does both flatwork and round work. I find that when I get stressed or tired of flatwork, I can go over to my lathe and relax while I turn a nice piece of wood into a bowl and have it sitting around for people to see. Sometimes, the bowls sell and sometimes not. Location and exposure to a market for turnings is key to making money with turnings. There are times in a flatwork project when you'll need something turned on a lathe to make the flatwork project really be something "special". I enjoy BOTH flatwork and roundwork. This way, I never get bored and when money gets tight for good flatwork stock, roundwork stock many times is only a neighbors yard away.

Getting started in turning isn't a small investment and should be taken into consideration. Like flatwork, roundwork does require some supplies to be restocked from time to time due to consumption...like sandpaper, finishing supplies, and such as this. Good turning tools will last you a nice long time when you have the proper sharpening stuff to resharpen your turning tools without chewing up a lot of excess steel. A good lathe, turning tools, and other accessories will only really cost you once. This is just like your tooling for doing flatwork. You buy good quality up front and you won't have to worry about your tooling for a nice long time.

Turning is fun and relaxing.....just like flatwork is to some who do some of both. :D

[Christopher K. Hartley]

He...he...he...VACUUM CLEANER? Hey Guys little does he know that Vacuum cleaner just turned into a Cyclone! Mark, make note of the sucking pressure now, because it is nothing compared to what is headed your way!

Mark, the fact that you even wrote what you did has doomed you forever!:eek: You are now hopelessly being dragged kicking and screaming into the Abyss. Quite Honestly, we're glad to have you!!:D :D
So, W E L C O M E !:)

Travis, I'm with you. what the bugiggers is work:confused:

[Bob Hallowell]

Mark,
I didn't make a second income with my flat work. But about 10 months ago. I bought a lathe and wrote the same kind of message you just did. I now have a drop leaf coffe table just hours from completion sitting in the same spot it did 10 months ago but now it holds some of my pen blanks on it:eek: . I do use my tools some but that is just to make laminations for peppermills. I should say I do make some extra cash with my turnings I sold lots of pens at Chirstmas and have sold quite a few peppermills. But you would probaly make more with your work.

Bob

[Bill Wyko]

Well Mark, I'm probably the best(or worst) example of what turning can do to you. In December I bought a Jet MINI lathe. It's now July and I've now built a 12x20 workshop, bought a bigger lathe, a new tablesaw, a new drill press, dust collection, numerous turinig tools and about a dozen other expensive tools to have around incase i need them. My profits from my work.....0. I've given some of my work for gifts. But I haven't sold anything as of yet. Right now I'm on my 15th piece and it should be pretty nice. I just don't know if i could part with it. So good luck, you'll probably need it. Turning is a powerful vortex. Here's a pic of my progress on #15

[Frank Kobilsek]

Flatwork is for Squares

I had turning sales equal to 5% of my day job in 2006 and turning expenses equal to 10% of my day job. I could increase those numbers if I didn't work so much at my day job. Sounds like US Senate logic.

Its nice to sell something but I'm not fooling myself into thinking I can generate any real cash turning. Just hope to pay for the addiction.

Frank

[Paul Engle]

Mark.Terms like work and turning are not to be use in the same universe :eek: :D .....at the same time refering to the same thing... my flat work side jobs have droped to nil. I do not have time to turn and do flat work. if it is income you need keep the flat work going and forget that there is anything else. :D I filled my house with flat work and am in the process of filling the flat work with turning's....I sell bowls etc sometimes....:eek:

[mark page]

Well Mark, I'm probably the best(or worst) example of what turning can do to you. In December I bought a Jet MINI lathe. It's now July and I've now built a 12x20 workshop, bought a bigger lathe, a new tablesaw, a new drill press, dust collection, numerous turinig tools and about a dozen other expensive tools to have around incase i need them. My profits from my work.....0. I've given some of my work for gifts. But I haven't sold anything as of yet. Right now I'm on my 15th piece and it should be pretty nice. I just don't know if i could part with it. So good luck, you'll probably need it. Turning is a powerful vortex. Here's a pic of my progress on #15

Looks like your doing something right Bill. That's a beautiful #15 there.

[Bill Wyko]

Thanks Mark. The new shop is getting textured as I write this. Maby this weekend I can finally get back to some turning and wrap this one up.

[Kim Ford]

Mark; Good Questions in your post. One answer to all.
Don't:
Don't get a lathe.
Don't think about getting a lathe.
Don't think about where you can get wood.
Don't scheme about how you can justify the lathe by selling pieces.
Don't dream about what lathe you will get.
Don't check out the different lathe accessories you will need.
Don't look at a tree and try to figure out the best way to turn a bowl from the crouch.
Don't think about the segmented pieces you could come up with.
And most of all DON't worry about falling into the Abyss. (I think you already have..... Welcome.)

[mark page]

Mark; Good Questions in your post. One answer to all.
Don't:
Don't get a lathe.
Don't think about getting a lathe.
Don't think about where you can get wood.
Don't scheme about how you can justify the lathe by selling pieces.
Don't dream about what lathe you will get.
Don't check out the different lathe accessories you will need.
Don't look at a tree and try to figure out the best way to turn a bowl from the crouch.
Don't think about the segmented pieces you could come up with.
And most of all DON't worry about falling into the Abyss. (I think you already have..... Welcome.)

Kim,
For the past five or six years I totally agreed. A lathe was off limits and I even instructed LOML to slap me a few times if I even mentioned one. But I'm starting to get the "itch". I'm working up slowly, showing her a few "pieces of art" that have been done by Creekers and getting her interest piqued somewhat, maybe even sleeptalking the word lathe in there somewheres. I might even psychologically prove whether or not that subliminal stuff really works, but worse yet she's the college psych major of the family. (I may be doomed). But the replies on some of the completions I've shown her have been good, "thats pretty, that's neat, really cool, you could do that if you wanted to, etc etc". The "you could do that's" are the ones I'm looking for. I really don't want to get slapped upside the head, lol. Sometimes she takes me literally and verbatum. But I still have a few schemes up my sleeve. She's up for a large promotion at her work, and I can see a mini-lathe in the future for a congratulations pen & pencil set if she gets it. I love fishing so I'll compare this to that--100 lb test LOML Cindy line--"fish on the hook!!!!" lol.
Dad-gumb it--I'm the one trying to talk ME out of it--you guys still doing it to me....

[mark page]

Ok--asking in a whisper. I could actually dream of several machines in my future, but who makes a great quality mini-lathe that will last for years without me outgrowing its capabilities for small projects, pens, etc. I'm not against paying for quality and hate paying for junk, just keep the replies within realistic values. Not looking for a Bentley on a Cadillac budget, just an excellent built machine that will last and meets acceptable pro performance guidlines. The larger machines will come later in the future. To keep my scalp I have to do this in stages. lol.

[Keith Burns]

All I can say is "ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST"

[TYLER WOOD]

Yeah, my wife has visions of grandeur when I showed her some turned pieces that were selling for a couple hundred dollars. She said yeah honey, you could do that and make some money for us.
Well now that I have a great lathe and no time to turn right now, I'm still waiting to get good enough to make profit enough to buy more tools to get better so I can make more money so I can buy the good tools, so I can make better pieces to make the big money so I can get the accessories that make it easier and quicker to turn out even better pieces so i can get the money to actually make back what I paid for the cheap tools.

[Bill Wyko]

Tyler are you sure we're not related. You have the same thought process that I've had:confused: You're pretty darned good so you should be making that money to replace the money that you spent to buy the tools to make the money to replace that money that wasn't supposed to be spent to begin with because this is a cheap hobby that wasn't supposed to cost a lot of money to begin with.:D :rolleyes: :eek:

[Keith Burns]

The worse thing is that I had to buy another burial plot. Told my wife my lathe and tools were going with me !!

[Travis Stinson]

The worse thing is that I had to buy another burial plot. Told my wife my lathe and tools were going with me !!

And that won't be long, after doing what you just did! :eek:

[TYLER WOOD]

Hey Bill,

I have been making money just don't tell SWMBO. I told her my dad gave me the lathe.:D A friend permenently loaned me his 4 jaw chuck.:eek: Those new chisels were the cheap HF variety, yes honey I know they say Sorby on them. The brand name are Sorby, but these are a knock off. Yeah that's it........ It's a bad knock off job!!!! Those Chinese!!

JUST JOKING HONEY!!!!!

[Bill Wyko]

Tyler you know I'm LMAO right now, don't you:D I have to run the gauntlet. Thats the path down the driveway, through the gate, across the back yard and into the workshop. If I make it w/o being seen, the tools are mine.:eek:

[Keith Burns]

And that won't be long, after doing what you just did! :eek:

Man you got that right !!!!!!!!!!!

[mark page]

Tyler,
I got to remember that statement. lol.:D

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Tyler.....shame on you for lying to the LOYL!.....You should just do like the rest of us.....grovel.....beg....plead......take her to the Woodcraft store with you......when she sees you drooling on the tools...she'll buy them just to get you out of the store and quit embarrassing her!:D

[Christopher K. Hartley]

The worse thing is that I had to buy another burial plot. Told my wife my lathe and tools were going with me !!

And that won't be long, after doing what you just did! :eek:Oh, you guys are headed for a whole nuther Abyss!:eek: This one is right up my ally. Let's see...kinka like turning...first the funeral service, then the casket, then the interment space (ground, above ground, cremation) then the outer container, then the Memorial, the opening and closing of the grave and so on. Keith if you'd talked to me first we could have done a Private Estate Mausoleum where we could have your entire shop set up inside. Not only that, but a place for you and your wife to be entombed right inside the shop. Now that would be a bit pricey but that lathe is worth it...Right?:D

[Doug M Jones]

Chris,
If Keith has the right tools, I could let you put the Mausoleum/Shop in my yard. Maybe a casket in the shape of a workbench so I would have someplace to assemble pens. I'd even talk to Keith while I used the tools. A working tool is a happy tool and I just know he would want them to be used and happy.