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Pat Kearney
07-03-2007, 8:44 PM
Has anyone ever used IPI Plastic and achieved good results???

I am sitting here now doing what I told myself I would not do again-use the IPI plastic that I purchased about a year ago-and I am steaming mad ayt myself for using it again. Just as I remembered telling myself last year that the stuff I have is garbage I am once again telling it to myself now to cut my losses and dump the stuff. I am babysitting a job that is running and constantly having to readjust the focus of the table during the job to compensate for a huge buckle in the middle the plastic which was there when it shipped to me. I have tried several things to try and flatten the buckle but to no avail. If it were in one color plastic I could see it being a manufacturing defect but it is the same for several different colors that I have. Also if it were shipping then one would think it would have "unbent" by now after laying flat for a year. Anyway, that's about all the time I have to gripe about this one as I have to go clean up a mess on the ones that I missed changing the focus on.:(

PAT

Brian Robison
07-03-2007, 9:26 PM
I started using Rowmark and then felt like I was having better luck with the IPI. I tried the Rowmark again and now I like IT better. Probably all in my mind. :eek:

Scott Shepherd
07-03-2007, 9:36 PM
Pat, I feel your pain. I buy it locally and I've had the same problem over and over. I finally complained to the manager of the branch here and he said he'd talk to their corporate rep that handles the IPI account. I didn't get much movement on it.

Then, I picked up another batch and it was bowed so I pulled up the IPI website and clicked on the "contact" page and it had an email form that went to the President of IPI.

I told him the details and I would no longer be using IPI plastic because of the poor quality product.

The next morning, my phone rang and it was someone with IPI in reference to my email to the President. He went through great detail to explain the process to me and said that the material goes through flattening rollers and when it comes off, it's dead flat.

Then he told me what I didn't know. The product has a water content in it and that temperature and humidity can cause it to buckle. He said storage was extremely important. He said it should not be stored in hot, humid locations. I told him that the warehouse I got all my stock from was not air conditioned and it's in the south, so it's humid. He wasn't happy at all and said that their product needs to be kept in a semi-controlled fashion and a non-airconditioned, high humidity environment was unacceptable for storage.

He then sent me a data sheet that's supposed to go out with all plastic from them that says how it should be maintained. He also offered to send me some plastic for free directly from them to show that their material is flat when it leaves their building, and that it appears to be a distributor issue, not a manufacturing issue.

Sadly, I haven't seen the material he offered, but I thought I would recount the frustration I went through that sounded similiar to yours. This all happened a couple of weeks ago, so I'm still working with the bowed material as well. :(

Joe Pelonio
07-03-2007, 9:36 PM
I haven't used IPI for two years after the same experience. Of course anyone with a newer Epilog with built in vacuum table could probably use it. Try placing thin two sided tape onto a piece of 1/4" acrylic, that has had parts cut out of it, that keeps it flat but then it's a pain to rub off the tape after.

Pat Kearney
07-03-2007, 11:01 PM
I just engraved 3 rowmark sheets in the same period of time it took me to do 1 IPI. Needless to say I will not be buying the IPI again.

Thaks for the feedback.

PAT

Carol VanArnam
07-04-2007, 2:13 AM
Not meaning to insult but everyone knows both companies sell their regular products then the laserable products. The laser line works great but the regular rotary stuff is a bit difficult. Now I do have the built in vent table on my Helix so maybe that helps like Joe says....

Mike Null
07-04-2007, 7:22 AM
I have used IPI for several years and the 1/16" and 1/8" product always comes with a bow in it. It is a process problem and not a storage problem. If the president of IPI says it's a storage problem he's trying to pass the blame to somebody else.

There are other problems with IPI. They allow contamination into their process and marks or tiny hairline blanks will appear. Yesterday I removed the plastic from 2 sheets of brushed silver and the were large areas (8-10 sq. in.) where the silver was so thin you could see the black core.

Back to the bowing--I've tried everything from weights to bending to heating to flatten the material. It can't be done. The material has a memory.

Why do I continue to use them? Most of my business is name tags and office signs so a color match is important. Besides they engrave and cut better than Rowmark in my opinion.

Johnson Plastics has been very responsive whenever I get something that absolutely can't be used.

Mark Winlund
07-04-2007, 11:11 AM
Back to the bowing--I've tried everything from weights to bending to heating to flatten the material. It can't be done. The material has a memory.


This is a perennial problem that has occurred throughout my career. Just about anything with two layers can bow. With the laser, the best solution is a vacuum table that has some real power behind it. Our system has a 3 hp high pressure blower with a VFD installed on it. We can "dial in" any amount of flattening we need.

Regarding defective material (too thin a top layer); this happens now and then. All of the bigger distributors will replace it without question. In 30 years of engraving, I have processed many tons of materials (at it's peak, my company had 23 employees). It's all part of the game.

Mark

Scott Shepherd
07-06-2007, 9:38 AM
Here's the text from the sheet they emailed me. It said that it's attached to every package that goes out from them :


Handling and Maintenance of
Decorated Acrylic Sheets
*The following information is provided by manufactures of flat acrylic sheets.Non-decorated acrylic sheets are not manufactured by IPI.


To maintain the original flatness of the decorative acrylic sheet it is recommended to store them horizontally, the area needs to be clean, well ventilated and consistent temperature area. Avoid storing where there may be extreme temperature fluctuations. We recommend ambient temperature be maintained between 60-80 degrees F. Extreme cold temperature will result in brittleness or cracking. Extreme hot temperatures will result in warping of the flat sheets (they will expand and contract). Acrylic is a hydroscopic material therefore exposure to high humidity may also cause warping of the flat sheet. Exposure to direct heat sources or in a high vapor area may also affect the flatness. If sheets will be stored for long periods of time, sheets should be wrapped in 6 mil plastic to avoid moisture invasion.


That's directly from IPI.

Joe Pelonio
07-06-2007, 10:30 AM
Here's the text from the sheet they emailed me. It said that it's attached to every package that goes out from them :


Handling and Maintenance of
Decorated Acrylic Sheets
*The following information is provided by manufactures of flat acrylic sheets.Non-decorated acrylic sheets are not manufactured by IPI.


To maintain the original flatness of the decorative acrylic sheet it is recommended to store them horizontally, the area needs to be clean, well ventilated and consistent temperature area. A

That's directly from IPI.
While my suppliers have never shared that information, it really doesn't help when it comes to me already warped. It wouldn't be so bad if it was just a hump in the middle, but I have gotten them warped in 4 different ways. I got them to send me more and laid those flat with lots of weight on them and after a month they were unchanged.

Mike Null
07-06-2007, 10:32 AM
That disclaimer does not, in my judgment, constitute a fix; nor do I agree with what they are saying.

Their material is manufactured in a high humidity location on the North Carolina coast. We had a plant 30 miles from there so I have a pretty good idea of the weather.

Other manufacturers can get material to you that's flat enough to laser. And it's rarely wrapped with anything besides packing vinyl.

By the way, the problem is prevalent on gold and silver finishes with a black core. The other colors seem to arrive flat.

Joe Pelonio
07-06-2007, 12:02 PM
By the way, the problem is prevalent on gold and silver finishes with a black core. The other colors seem to arrive flat.
Actually I have never used their gold or silver, the problems I had were mostly with the white (black core).

Mike Null
07-06-2007, 12:08 PM
I rarely use that but haven't noticed a problem. I have about 8 colors on hand and the only one that's really a problem right now is gold/black. I also use black with a gold core and that has never been a problem. Strange that white core never seems to be a problem nor is the 1/32" stock.

I buy only from Johnson Plastics and they take care of everything.

Joe Pelonio
07-21-2007, 9:51 PM
I sort of hate to revive this thread, but they did it to me again. When did IPI start putting blue plastic film on the BACK?!!

That one job I do that has to be IPI is 144 tags to a sheet, I ran a sheet and then noticed. So, I have to peel the welded on blue plastic from the 144 pieces now. Luckily I noticed before starting the next sheet so I peeled it first. Now I suppose they think that film on the back will help keep it from warping? I can't imagine why else you'd protect the back. But if so, it didn't work, these are all warped like usual.

Mike Null
07-22-2007, 8:14 AM
I just received two shipments last week. None had a backing material.

Joe Pelonio
07-22-2007, 2:04 PM
Interesting, maybe yours was from older stock? This is the blue plastic like is used on some of the extruded acrylic.

Scott Shepherd
08-30-2007, 7:21 PM
Just got in some Rowmark this week as the master plan is now to use them as much as possible. Here's a photo of the Rowmark (right) next to the IPI (left). I bought the IPI last week and it came like that. Both are reverse engravable black/matte finish.

Pat Kearney
08-31-2007, 11:32 AM
Coincidentally I was going through my stack of plastics last night to do an inventory in preparation to place an order and as I was flipping through them I could quickly tell which ones were the IPI as they are still bowed, even after laying flat, sandwiched between others for over 6 months. I guess it will never come out. Oh well....:o