PM 2000 won't stay running c/dado mounted

[Tim Wagner]

Is there some sort of balance feature? instructions aren't vary elaborate. soon as I start it, and the blade comes up to speed, it cut's out and shuts down.

using the 8" Freud dial a width dado.

[Leo Graywacz]

Take your power switch panel off. Look inside and you will see a small dial with some teen numbers on in (12, 13,14,etc). This is a current limiting device, a variable amperage circuit breaker. Turn it up an amp and try it again. If it shuts down, try to turn it up again until it stays going. Try to keep it as low as you can, as this is the protection for your motor.

[Rod Sheridan]

Tim, do not adjust the overload relay setting to a value higher than the nameplete current rating of your motor (amperes).

It is possible that the relay is set incorrectly, or you may have low voltage.

The overload relay provides thermal protection for your motor, defeating it by setting it too high can be expensive.

Regards, Rod.

[Tim Wagner]

ll I will investigate to see what it's set for, but I would think that if the saw is supposed to be able to accept a dado blade, It would be set for me to run one.

I'll let you know.

just so I am clear on the dado though. I have 4 chippers installed. each chipper is set one position behind the previous one. is this correct?

TIA

[James Phillips]

ll I will investigate to see what it's set for, but I would think that if the saw is supposed to be able to accept a dado blade, It would be set for me to run one.

I'll let you know.

just so I am clear on the dado though. I have 4 chippers installed. each chipper is set one position behind the previous one. is this correct?

TIA


It only does this with the Dado??? That is very confusing. The motor should not really care what blade is in there. It should not pull more current under no load than with a normal 10" blade

[Tim Wagner]

well after opening the box, i found that the limiter was set for 15, the max. so I cranked it past the max, and it runs longer but eventualy cuts out. doing this allowed me to notice that the blade does not come up to full speed. seems like it is trying to come to speed but since it can't, it cuts out.

dado seems to spin freely by hand. I have a hunch that I didn't stack the chippers correctly and I may have an out of balance issue.

yes only with the dado, if I mount the standard blade it work fine.

[Jim Becker]

It only does this with the Dado??? That is very confusing. The motor should not really care what blade is in there. It should not pull more current under no load than with a normal 10" blade

Startup load with the much heavier dado set will indeed result in a higher start amperage.

That said, given that the startup setting was already at max, I'd be concerned that something is amiss/defective.

[Mike Cutler]

ll I will investigate to see what it's set for, but I would think that if the saw is supposed to be able to accept a dado blade, It would be set for me to run one.

I'll let you know.

just so I am clear on the dado though. I have 4 chippers installed. each chipper is set one position behind the previous one. is this correct?

TIA

In my experience, it is best to set the chippers equidistance around the circumference of the blade,with the teeth next to the blade positioned on a corrsponding point just in front of an inner and outer blade gullet.

A dado has a lot of rotational weight. I don't know if it is normal to adjust the overload on the power switch, I have never had to do that with any tablesaw. I've never used a PM 2000 though.

[James Phillips]

Startup load with the much heavier dado set will indeed result in a higher start amperage.

That said, given that the startup setting was already at max, I'd be concerned that something is amiss/defective.

I am not so sure about this. I am an electrical engineer, but know very little about motors so I will look at it from the physics. The current spike is from the motor not turning when voltage is applied (lock rotor). The heavier blade will take longer to spin up due to inertia (obejcts at rest desire to stay at rest), so maybe it is not causing a higher spike but rather a wider spike. If this is the case I would be very concerned that there is a problem with the motor. The motor should have the power to get the blade up to speed before a current limiting device kicks in.

[Tim Wagner]

well after contacting freud by phone. he suggested starting with no chippers and adding them till it cuts out. it cuts out on the fourth chipper added.

I think it definatly has something to do with the weight of the blade. because when i start it and it kicks out, I immediately try restating it while it's still spinning and on occasion i can get it to start. I think I will call Powermatic next to see if they think i might have a weak motor.

as far as wiring. the 220v receptical is mounted right next to the panel, with a 20' 600v extension cord running to the saw.

[Chris Padilla]

Tim,

Is this a 220 V (240 V, really), 30-Amp circuit? Have you mesured the voltage at the plug and can you measure the voltage at the motor somehow (when the cord is plugged in)? Just curious. What size is your extension cord? #12 at least?

Sounds like a motor issue to me but make sure it is being fed good juice. :)

[Mike Cutler]

as far as wiring. the 220v receptical is mounted right next to the panel, with a 20' 600v extension cord running to the saw.


It's a stretch but, what is the AWG of this 20' extension cord?

One more thing you can inquire about is the starting cap.

Does your saw appear to functin normally with a standard kerf blade?


I really think you need to call Powermatic. They should be your best resource.

[Leo Graywacz]

Tim, do not adjust the overload relay setting to a value higher than the nameplete current rating of your motor (amperes).

It is possible that the relay is set incorrectly, or you may have low voltage.

The overload relay provides thermal protection for your motor, defeating it by setting it too high can be expensive.

Regards, Rod.


I have had many tools come from the factory set up to such a close tolerances that it would shut down for seemingly no reason. I had this problem with my Edge sander with a 3HP motor. It would cut out under the slightest load. I bumped it up 1 ampere and it has been running great for 2 years now. My TS would cut out if I was pushing it a little hard with a 1/8" kerf sawblade. It was a 13/16" cut and there is no reason it should cut out. Bumped it up an amp and no more problems. I wouldn't doubt that when they are set at the factory the are set by the number on the dial. These can be off because of the electronics tolerances. I didn't expect him to go from 7 amps to 15 amps. That is just asking for trouble. I think they are always set on a hair trigger, which in my opinion is great for protecting the motor but when it shuts down in the middle of an operation for no reason other than being touchy it can be dangerous. A 3HP motor should not shut down with the extra load of a dado set on it. If it operates normally in all other circumstances there is a problem somewhere. I have never heard of a cabinet tablesaw with a vibration shut down system, I could be wrong.

[Tim Wagner]

It's a 240v 3hp 20 amp saw and circuit. the wire is a 12/4 stranded 500w 600v wire.

just contacted WHM group (powermatic) and he says they have already come out with a higher overload relay to replace mine with. a 17 amp max as opposed to the 15 amp max, and assured me it would solve the problem.

so hopefully that should fix it.

[Leo Graywacz]

It's a 240v 3hp 20 amp saw and circuit. the wire is a 12/4 stranded 500w 600v wire.

just contacted WHM group (powermatic) and he says they have already come out with a higher overload relay to replace mine with. a 17 amp max as opposed to the 15 amp max, and assured me it would solve the problem.

so hopefully that should fix it.

See.... this happens a lot. They are set at a hair trigger. To sensitive fore normal use.

[Jim Becker]

I am not so sure about this. I am an electrical engineer, but know very little about motors so I will look at it from the physics.

I believe that Charles from Freud has commented on this in the past...hopefully, I'm remembering things clearly. But a dado set, especially one loaded up with chippers for a wider cut, has a lot more mass than a single 10" blade. One that mass is moving, there is little difference in the effort to spin it, but getting it going takes more energy. I could be wrong on that and will certainly accept correction by anyone with more knowledge on the subject.

[James Phillips]

I believe that Charles from Freud has commented on this in the past...hopefully, I'm remembering things clearly. But a dado set, especially one loaded up with chippers for a wider cut, has a lot more mass than a single 10" blade. One that mass is moving, there is little difference in the effort to spin it, but getting it going takes more energy. I could be wrong on that and will certainly accept correction by anyone with more knowledge on the subject.


I think the current limiter is a thermal breaker which means a wide spike is just as bad or worse than a tall spike. I *THINK* the heavier blade would widen the spike. At any rate the motor should handle it. It a dado blade trips a breaker Powermaic needs to fix it, which I think he said they were. I had not fully thought it through on my first post. Hope this makes sense.

[Chris Padilla]

It's a 240v 3hp 20 amp saw and circuit. the wire is a 12/4 stranded 500w 600v wire.

just contacted WHM group (powermatic) and he says they have already come out with a higher overload relay to replace mine with. a 17 amp max as opposed to the 15 amp max, and assured me it would solve the problem.

so hopefully that should fix it.

Tim,

Excellent...glad they were aware of the problem. I'll correct you just a tad, however. The bare/green wire in your cord is not officially counted so what you actually have is 12/3 (black, red, white, and a bare/green wire). 12/2 would be black, white, and bare/green. :)

They do have 12/4 or maybe 14/4 now: black, red, white, white w/red stripe, and the ground wire.

[Leo Graywacz]

The breaker is also called a 'heater'. When the coil of wire that the current flowas through gets to a certain temperature it pops the contactor off.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, it sounds like a failed starting capacitor, centrifugal switch, starting winding or low line voltage.

Have you measured the line voltage?

Is the motor itself strapped for the voltage you are applying? Many motors are dual voltage and this is a common installation error.

Regards, Rod.

[Mike Heidrick]

Anyway to try it without the extension cord?

[Bob Feeser]

When you think of it, on the surface, would a 3hp, industrial grade motor, have to labor to get a multi-stack dado blade going? With the capability of cutting a couple inch thick highly figured hardwood, would a free spinning dado blade create a challenge?
I see that you resolved the problem with PM, and they are sending you the upgraded component for 17 amps.
Just as a point of interest to those purchasing a saw with a 5hp motor in it. My PM66 came with a 5, single phase, and I learned from the PM factory rep, as well as the instruction manual, that it requires a 40 amp circuit, which requires an 8 gauge wire. So that is what is installed to the outlet.
My confusion set in when I tried to get an 8 gauge multi-strand cord, to run from the saw to the outlet. Since I had about a 25 foot run from where the saw was, I decided to not scrimp, and get an 8 gauge wire, rubber coated for the longer run.
Have you tried getting 8 gauge plug wire. I couldn't find it locally, and finally obtained it from a warehouse in the neighboring state of Delaware. They also had the 40 amp outlet, and locking plug.
Satisfied that I had sufficient amperage capacity, even though it was expensive, I came back home to install it, only to find out that the lower opening that you can punch out, is only sufficient for a 30 amp wire. The one at the top was larger, but then you have the gravity feed dust getting in the works problem.
To be honest with you, I used the top one, and then stuffed the crevices of the hole with paper towel material, to keep dust out of it. (So much for the professional installation) :rolleyes: It does work great, and I know it is not getting starved for amperage.
The PM rep said it was meant to have a 30 amp wire run from the outlet to the saw, although a 40 amp wire was neccessary to run from the box to the outlet. Since I had about a 25 foot run to the saw, I went for the extra size in the 8 gauge.
So I guess the ideal is to run an 8 gauge somewhere close to the saw, then run a 30 amp close by as the cord. Maybe the new PM2000 has a wider opening in the box?
Any super electrical guys out there, who can shed a little light on all of this? Is there an allowable distance, based on the amperage/distance quotient? Let me know.
Anyhow, their is an electrical storm going on out there in the distance, and it is getting closer, so I am going to run and shut down the network. Their actually is tornado watches for most of the Southeastern PA area. You can bet the equipment is all going to be unplugged tonight. Thanks for listening.

[Tim Wagner]

I can't really try it without the cord right now, but the wire is larger guage than the wire leading from the saw itself, so....

edit: It is a 13amp motor at 230 volts. according to tag on motor.

[Leo Graywacz]

I can't really try it without the cord right now, but the wire is larger guage than the wire leading from the saw itself, so....

edit: It is a 13amp motor at 230 volts. according to tag on motor.

13 amp should be the maximum draw at full load. This does not include the locked rotor current which is usually 3-4 times high, but only for 1/3-1/2 second at startup. 12 gauge wire (20 amp circuit) should be sufficient to run the motor as long as the distance is not more than 75' from the circuit breaker box.

[Charles Grosjean]

Tim,

I'll correct you just a tad, however. The bare/green wire in your cord is not officially counted so what you actually have is 12/3 (black, red, white, and a bare/green wire). 12/2 would be black, white, and bare/green. :)


True if you're buying Romex, AC, or MC. However, if you're buying SO/SJO (the flexible cord), you need to account for a ground, ie 12/2 is just black and white. At a minimum, most single phase tool hookups would require at least 12/3.