Lifespan? Water & alcohol based aniline

[Fred Miller]

Personal experience or opinions please!

I began using aniline dye mixed with alcohol for the NGR benefit of it. Now I am haunted by all the published references to alcohol-based dyes not retaining their color as long as water-based dyes. Really now, under normal interior lighting conditions, what is the lifespan difference between alcohol-based vs: water-based dye? Can someone please express this in a definable length of time--like 10 years, 50 years, 100 years...or what?

Also, instructions for water-based dye say to mix with warm water. If I mix a quantity and want to use it later, should I reheat the mixture before using it?

...as always, Thank You!

[Jim Becker]

Also, instructions for water-based dye say to mix with warm water. If I mix a quantity and want to use it later, should I reheat the mixture before using it?

The reason you use warm water for water soluble dyes (not "based" ;) ) is that the dye powder will dissolve faster and easier in warm water. BTW, you should also be using distilled water, not tap water when you are preparing your dye. (Same for "raising grain") A gallon will go a very long way and isn't expensive....

[Jamie Buxton]

Not to hijack your thread, but there's another choice in anilyne dyes. You can buy the dye in a concentrated liquid form which is universally solvent. That is, you can dilute the concentrate with water, oil, or alcohol. I believe the fluid in the concentrate is ethylene glycol, which dissolves in all three solvents. Homestead's TransTint dyes are one example. So.... does this dye's lifespan depend on the solvent?!

[Fred Miller]

Thanks Jim and Jamie. :)

I have used the TransTint concentration before, and it works real well. Also, I know about the value of using distilled water in the shop...

Still, I'm going back to the original question about the lifespan of color of an alcohol mix aniline vs: a water soluble aniline. The reproduction furniture I make is close to 18th Century in construction and joinery, and I know the construction will endure, but I don't want the color to fade prematurely.

[Jim Becker]

I didn't attempt to answer the other question, Fred, 'cause I don't know the answer...

Someone who likely could would be Jeff Jewitt of Homestead Finishing. While he sometimes visits SMC and posts, you may want to contact him directly. And if you do, please report back what you learn so the rest of us can benefit!

[Fred Miller]

Jim, I did speak with Jeff Jewitt this afternoon, and here's basically what he said. In the early days of aniline dye development, there was a colorfast issue between water soluble and alcohol mixed dyes, and, in fact, none of the dyes were that colorfast over time. Today, though, with the chemical formulations used in anilines there is really no difference in the lifespan of color between the two mixes. SO, in today's world the old story of color fading is simply not true.

I will accept Jeff's comments for face value, even though the "Dye FAQ" tab on the Homestead Finishes website has a fairly long commentary about the water soluble dyes being more colorfast. Hummmm...;)

[Dennis Peacock]

I've used water soluble dye and dye mixed in DNA for NGR. I like them both. I use dye now instead of "stain" and am very pleased with the results. A couple of pieces are over 2 years old now with excellent color.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Please remember that "colorfast" is a relative term. All of the dyes available today are colorfast to the extent that they will hold up over many years of expose to indirect sunlight and the normal household lighting. However, none of the dyes currently available on the market today will hold up to prolonged (weeks, months, years) of direct sunlight. They will all fade, and badly. Your best protection is to either keep the item of furniture out of direct sunlight or to put it into the sunlight only if you have windows with the UV reflecting film layer between the inner and outer glass panes. Even then there will be some fading over the the months and years.

[Jeff Jewitt]

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I will accept Jeff's comments for face value, even though the "Dye FAQ" tab on the Homestead Finishes website has a fairly long commentary about the water soluble dyes being more colorfast. Hummmm...;)

Fred - I think I may need to clarify. The only thing we say in the Lightfastness category is that TransTints (which are multi-solvent dye, water, alcohol, acetone, lacquer thinner, etc) have the best lightfastness compared to the powdered dyes. Years back, before NGR's and metallized concentrate dyes (TransTints), certain alcohol soluble powders (actually called basic dyes) were poor in lightfastness compared to the traditional water soluble powders (called acid dyes).

Just for the record, the solvent that you use to reduce TransTint with has no effect on the lightfastness.

[Fred Miller]

Thanks Jeff.

I certainly didn't mean to step on anyone's toes, or misquote anything, so I appreciate your patience and clarification. Bottom line for me is that I feel a lot better about the dyes I'm using and the methods I employ--which is exactly what I wanted as a result of posting my question. If you hear a great big "WHEW!"...it's me.

Thanks to you, and everyone else who responded to my question! The assist is much appreciated.