Dust Collection

[Raymond Stanley]

What!? A dust collection thread in the neander section?

Well, I just finished my workbench (see http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=47971) (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=47971%29), only to notice lingering lung problems...I do some searching and poking around and find out dust may still be dangerous with hand with exclusively hand tool woodworking. Bill Pentz, dust collection guru, was generous enough to offer his time to give me some of his valuable expertise. I thought I got away from dust collection issues by using hand tools exclusively. Health comes first, if I have to I'll drop this hobby till we can get a house with a shed.

So I'm left wondering, what does everybody else do for dust collection for hand tools...nobody has developed a dust hood for a smoothing plane ;)

I'm thinking of starting, at least, with an air scrubber and a respirator...

Thanks-
Ray

[Bill Houghton]

I put a box fan in a window and open the door. Of course, my shop is only 11 feet square, so this makes for a lot of air changes per hour; and it's a little hard to do in the winter.

[David Weaver]

I keep the garage door open, and if I'm sanding or sawing or anything that could make fines, I have a respirator on. I rarely have time to do more than one task at a time, so if I sand something, that's it for the day, and I'm wearing a respirator the whole time.

I have sensitivity like you do, but for me, it's because of asthma. It isn't such a big deal to breathe the dust in initially, but later in the day, I start to pay for it, and I can have issues from it for several days.

[Steven Wilson]

You should consider an ambient air filter to get rid of nuisance dust. You should also consider a downdraft cabinet (or similar) when hand sanding or using a card scraper.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, "Neander" work sometimes requires consideration relative to dust...in addition to consideration about personal sensitivities to particular species.

One of the folks who works for our locksmith used to be a carver. 'Can't get much more Neander that that! He had to give up the hobby completely because of a bad reaction to walnut that grew into complete intolerance to any contact with wood dust, etc. (He tries to only get the locksmithing jobs that don't require drilling in wood doors even...)

So consider that you not only need to be careful when sanding and sawing, but also relative to the affect of particular species if you have sensitivities. You want to avoid them if you can, or take care to protect yourself when you can't avoid them, so you don't compound the issue.

My personal nemesis relative to species happens to be bubinga. I learned I am sensitive to it on the first project I used it. (turning, no less) It's no longer something I plan on using if I can avoid it.

[Andrew Homan]

Well, I just finished my workbench (see http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=47971) (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=47971%29), only to notice lingering lung problems...

Ray,
Do you currently use a vaccuum cleaner or shopvac to clean up? If so, I wonder whether the issue is actually with the vac spewing very fine particles into the air -- if so, look into getting a vac with a better filter, HEPA if possible. Also consider the type of wood you used and whether it may have been sprayed with something nasty to prevent insect attack, or something like that. I think that it is not typical to have these issues with wood particles from hand planing/sawing in the part-time work that you did to build one workbench, so in my opinion there must be some other factor: vaccuum exhausting particles, chemical treatments of wood, or something else. If it really is just from the exposure to the shavings, I would be really surprised.
-Andy

[Raymond Stanley]

Thanks for the info everybody.

I'll definately keep an eye on the species...what are generally the least averse species?

Andrew, I think you've made a valid point...My current method for cleanup is grabbing handfulls of shavings and placing them in a bag, followed by vaccuming with a small shop vac. Maybe I should invest in a bigger shop vac that has 2.5" hose, add a HEPA filter, and try to just vaccum all my stuff straight up without touching it and fluffing it into my face, and then empty it outside. Do y'all think 2.5" will stay unclogged from the plane shavings?

-Ray

[Greg Cole]

Ray,
FWIW I've used my central DC system to pick up a pile of neader shavings by sweeping them in the floor sweep attachment... ONCE.
After sweeping them fairly little by little into the floor sweep I started to notice the DC wasn't sounding to happy about it... let's say I spent about 30 minutes taking the cover off the DC impeller and removing what looked to be a squirrels nest from the impeller and housing.
The good old fashoined broom is now my tool of choice for the long curlies on the floor.... I also stage a garbage can directly off the end of my bench so as I am planing I can simply push the mess off the bench and right into the garbage (might be easier for me as my bench is tall as I am 6'2").

Greg

[Steven Wilson]

2.5" should work fairly well for shavings (some thicker ones will clog). However, I find it easier and faster to use a flipover dustpan with a handle and a broom - don't need to touch the savings just scoop them up and dump into the trash can. If you go the vac route you'll probably want to get an insert instead of bags and a vac that is fairly quiet (Festool or Fein). Also, keep some baby wipes in the shop and clean your hands fairly often.

[Andrew Williams]

I have this monster right next to my workbench. It provides about 3200CFM and filters well enough to remove the smell of wood from the room.

http://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=62188&d=1176251471

[Raymond Stanley]

Andrew, that thing looks great! Can you give any more details on what materials you used, how you built it? Thanks!
Ray

[Andrew Williams]

Essentially it's a big box made from a 1x2 frame with 1/2" plywood skin. Square holes are cut on 4 sides to be slightly smaller than the dimensions of the 4 Filtrete Ultra Allergen filters (these are the most expensive 3M filtrete filters). The filter attachment cleats are just small wood strips. I cut round holes according to the template for the gable-mount attic fans. Each fan is around 1600CFM and draws about 3 Amps. They come with their own electrical junctions, so I just remove the switch assemblies and hard-wire them together and put a cord on it. Cleanup is easy. Just shopvac them, or if you like, take them outside and blow compressed air through the filters. To be honest, there is so much surface area that I rarely need to clean them.

[Raymond Stanley]

So as I'm learning more about DC I am seeing more challanges with hand tool DC.

So, the first line of defense is collecting dust at its source. What is "at its source" for a hand plane or a saw? At the mouth of the plane or teeth of the saw? Or would the workbench top be sufficient?

Also, it is generally thought that the CFM from a shop vac is not sufficient to act as a dust collector for stationary power tools. Seeing as how less total dust is made from hand tools, doya think a good shop vac would pull enough to grab most of the dust from hand tools?

Thanks again!
Ray

[Jim Becker]

Ray, a hand plane really shouldn't be creating and "dust", per se...and collecting at the source for a hand saw is going to be darn hard to do.

Sanding is the real issue at play here and there are any number of ways to help with that, including a downdraft table or an air filtration system positioned right at the bench that sweeps the fines from sanding away from you with enough air flow. Wearing a powered face shield when sanding can also help if you really want to get into such gear. (I wear one when sanding at the lathe)

A shop vac is not what you want. Shop vacs move a small amount of air at high pressure. "Dust collection" requires moving a large amount of air a low pressure...both from the standpoint of point-source pickup, such as with stationary power tools as well as for the down-draft or "back-draft" type setup I mentioned above. You can build either or both of the latter using a surplus HVAC fan system if you want to do so...