jointer/planer combos

[nick brigg]

any creekers out there know of a jointer/planer combo machine with a spiral cutter head? ive looked at the minimax and hammer, and if i would go for one, id get the hammer...but id really want a spiral head(better cuts and quieter) i know grizzly makes one but i doubt they sell the machines in montreal, canada...

another option i've seen is to just buy a 12" spiral cutter and swap out the straight knives, but that sounds more expensive than buying a machine with the spiral head already....anyone?

[Jim Becker]

I haven't seen anything with the spiral stock...and I'm very pleased with the Tersa head on my MiniMax J/P Combo. That said, you could retrofit. Talk to Byrd, etc., to see what would be required.

Grizzly does not sell in Canada.

[Gary Herrmann]

Would it be cheaper to buy a separate jointer and planer and swap the heads? Or maybe even buy one of the manufactureres that has a spiral as an option?

[nick brigg]

it may be, but im very limited on space, it just makes sense to have both machines in one. plus a 12 inch jointer is mucho casho. i mean if it costs way too much then forget it, but it would just be great if i could get a spiral cutter head ya know!

[Todd Solomon]

any creekers out there know of a jointer/planer combo machine with a spiral cutter head? ive looked at the minimax and hammer, and if i would go for one, id get the hammer...but id really want a spiral head(better cuts and quieter) i know grizzly makes one but i doubt they sell the machines in montreal, canada...

another option i've seen is to just buy a 12" spiral cutter and swap out the straight knives, but that sounds more expensive than buying a machine with the spiral head already....anyone?

Nick,

I have a planer with a Byrd spiral head, but also have a Felder 16" jointer/planer on order with a Tersa cutterhead. While the Byrd is nice, my favorite cutterhead is the Tersa (I've owned one of those as well). I know the spiral cutterheads are very popular, but I don't see a large reduction in tearout over a quick-change cutterhead. I know that goes against the conventional wisdom on the internet, but that's been my first-hand experience.

The biggest advantages of the Byrd head, to me, are the ease of changing inserts, and the quietness as you mentioned. And the Byrd would likely cost you quite a bit to have one made for a euro machine, I know because I asked at one time.

Don't overlook the Tersa quick-change cutterhead that's available on Mini Max and Felder, or the Hammer/Felder quick-change cutterhead on the Hammer (also a very nice head). All I can say is that, after owning both a Tersa and a Byrd, I'm going with the Tersa.

Todd

[Joe Jensen]

Nick,
Don't overlook the Tersa quick-change cutterhead that's available on Mini Max and Felder, or the Hammer/Felder quick-change cutterhead on the Hammer (also a very nice head). All I can say is that, after owning both a Tersa and a Byrd, I'm going with the Tersa.

Todd

Todd, I started with a Terminus (Tersa type) head in my 8" jointer and was very happy until I started using curly maple. Nothing I did reduced the significant level of tearout. New knives, hand honed new knives, nothing. But when I put the Byrd head in my planer it was magic on curly maple. Not as nice as fresh straight knives on non-figured woods, but zero tearout.

I have been considering a switch to a Byrd head in the jointer. DO you think it's the Terminus knives? I do notice that I have to change them "WAY" more often than the stock Powermatic bimetal knives that came with the jointer...joe

[Todd Solomon]

Todd, I started with a Terminus (Tersa type) head in my 8" jointer and was very happy until I started using curly maple. Nothing I did reduced the significant level of tearout. New knives, hand honed new knives, nothing. But when I put the Byrd head in my planer it was magic on curly maple. Not as nice as fresh straight knives on non-figured woods, but zero tearout.

I have been considering a switch to a Byrd head in the jointer. DO you think it's the Terminus knives? I do notice that I have to change them "WAY" more often than the stock Powermatic bimetal knives that came with the jointer...joe

I've done some figured african mahogany, birds-eye maple, figured and crotch walnut, but not curly maple. My straight-knived Grizzly jointer has performed similarly in tearout to the Oliver equipped Byrd. But I'm going to keep my Byrd planer for a while, in case I do run across a figured wood that would benefit from a spiral head.

Regarding knife longetivity, I don't know much about the Terminus. My experience has been with a Tersa head on a Mini Max, and straight knives on a DeWalt 735 and the Grizzly jointer. I haven't seen a big difference in knife durability, perhaps the DeWalt knives knick faster than the others, but I'm not sure. The Tersa knives are available in a variety of materials, to help combat durability issues. Here's a snippet I got from Amazon:

Tersa Knife Material "Recommended uses: * Chrome: Softwoods only. * HSS: Best for all around use. Recommended for pine, oak, maple, cherry, etc. * M42: For tougher applications. Less likely to chip the cutting edge than HSS. * Solid Carbide: Most durable, reduced finish quality, recommended for hickory, exotic hardwoods, laminated woods, dirty material, glue lines."

-Todd

[Joe Jensen]

The Tersa knives are available in a variety of materials, to help combat durability issues. Here's a snippet I got from Amazon:

Tersa Knife Material "Recommended uses: * Chrome: Softwoods only. * HSS: Best for all around use. Recommended for pine, oak, maple, cherry, etc. * M42: For tougher applications. Less likely to chip the cutting edge than HSS. * Solid Carbide: Most durable, reduced finish quality, recommended for hickory, exotic hardwoods, laminated woods, dirty material, glue lines."

-Todd
Hmm, seems I should have looked into a Tersa head for the jointer before a bought the Terminus. Terminus only offers HHS and carbide. The concensus seems to be that carbide can't get a sharp as HSS so I haven't tried a set...joe

[Todd Solomon]

Hmm, seems I should have looked into a Tersa head for the jointer before a bought the Terminus. Terminus only offers HHS and carbide. The concensus seems to be that carbide can't get a sharp as HSS so I haven't tried a set...joe

I'm not sure if this will help you, but is it easy to shift the Terminus knives laterally, a little? One thing I really like about the Tersa is that, if you get knicks in the knives that are all lined up, you can shift one of the knives so that the knicks no longer overlap. This eliminates the longitudinal stripe left on the wood. This is easy on the Tersa (and probably on the Terminus too), but a pain on my Grizzly. So, I've always lived with these stripes with the Grizzly, but never had to with the Tersa-equipped Mini Max.

Hope this helps.

Todd

[Jim Becker]

Joe, I've milled curly maple on my MM J/P with the Tersa head with no problem.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Nick,

Another Minimax J/P owner here with Tersa knives, I find the Tersa knives really obviate the need for something like a spiral cutter head. The Tersa M42 knives do a great job with figured lumber and last quite long and changing knives is a three minute job.

[nick brigg]

i know that tersa heads are super easy to change, but besides that, whats the reason that they handle figured woods so well compared to regular straight knives?

[Paul B. Cresti]

I use a J/P with the Tersa head and it works quite well....does it eliminate all tear-out? No it does not. I had one heck of a time with Birch....it is one of the nastiest woods I have ever used and I can definately say I will never voluntarily use it again (a client wanted it). I had good results with curly maple but do get the occasional tear. The benefit of a Tersa head is the ability to change knives quicker than you can shake a stick at. You have the ability to keep "the really good knives" for those special boards and use your regular knives for regular jointing or planning. The Tersa knives by themselves right out of the sleeve are sickingly sharp. If you just glance your finger on them you WILL slice your finger open like a hard boiled egg vs a steak knife. (do no ask me how i know this) If you want to eliminate ALL tear-out completely then use a widebelt sander. This fascination with these "little indexable" knives seems quite odd to me. The thought of spinning all of those little things does not excite me one bit. On top of that the reason "it is much quieter" in my opinion is meaningless. One of best ways i have found to combat tear-out is shear cutting boards at a very sharp angle. You can achieve this with a very wide jointer or planer and then running the board thru at an angle. After one pass you will be able to tell if your should reverse the angle or not. This is one of the other benefits of a J/P since you would "theoretically" be able to afford a much larger (wider) machine in a combined format vs two separate machines of equal capacity.

[Robert LaPlaca]

"The Tersa knives by themselves right out of the sleeve are sickingly sharp. If you just glance your finger on them you WILL slice your finger open like a hard boiled egg vs a steak knife. (do no ask me how i know this)"

Paul,

I could not agree more with this statement (don't ask me how I know this also). I would compare the sharpness of the Tersa more with a finely tuned smoothing plane blade, much sharper than any conventional jointer/planer knive that I ever had the fortune of using.

[Philip Glover]

Nick,
Depending on what your budget is, the Casadei FS 51 (20") J/P combo has what they call a Helicoidal cutterhead. It has two replaceable blades which are similar to a Tersa, except that it is twisted, or helical.
I do not have one, but I think it is a good system, definitely worth looking into. The Casadei is on the short list (MM /SCMI is the other) of machines for my next j/p purchase.
Here is the link http://www.casadeimacchine.com/cgi/index1.html?fam=ST&lingua=us
I am not aware of another j/p combo with this type of helical system.

Regards,
Phil

[Paul B. Cresti]

Yes I have seen (not in person) that Casadie machine with the Helicoidal head...now that seems like a great idea and a very nice machine. I do beleive there is one amercian company that makes a helical head also. I can not remember that name. I think I posted it some time ago.

[James Kuhn]

Knapp machines are available with a Leitz Wigo. The machines are relatively cheap right now because the company has or had been in financial trouble, but the knives themselves are wickedly expensive. I think Laguna is the sole US source but I may be wrong...

[glenn bradley]

Joe, I've milled curly maple on my MM J/P with the Tersa head with no problem.

Jim, how's the convenience / cost on getting the Tersa knives sharpened? I've picked up some comments that sharpening is proprietary and costly, etc. Just wondering if this is the perception of one person or reality. Thanks.

[Philip Glover]

Tersa blades are disposable, no sharpening required. When they become chipped, nicked, or dull, just turn them over and use the second edge. That's the beauty of Tersa - no sharpening.
It seems that I have read some place that there is a company that will sharpen Tersa blades, but I don't think it is cost effective for most shops.

Regards,
Phil

[Jim Becker]

Jim, how's the convenience / cost on getting the Tersa knives sharpened?

No sharpening. They are double sided and disposable. You throw them out when you are done with both edges and replace with new ones. If you time your buying to a sale, etc., the cost is not extraordinary and I also find they last a long time. They are also a snap to shift if you get a small ding...takes about 10 seconds and most of that is locating a screwdriver to pop the three gibs down to release the knife so it can be slid sideways. Another benefit is that there are several metal formulas available so you can optimize the knife type for the job given changing them is fast and easy.

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On that "spiral straight knife" topic, PowerMatic has a planer with that feature I believe.