Removing cracked Japaning: Is bead blasting bad?

[Dominic Greco]

A friend of mine at work (who is also into hand tools) just got a sand blasting booth. He offered to bead blast any of the cast bodies of old planes I wanted cleaned. While I thought that was very nice of him to ask, I was worried about the effects of sandblasting on the casting. I know that there is a heat build up issue with bead blasting (if you're not careful about staying in one place for too long a period of time). I was just wondering if it would distort the casting.

The reason I ask is two fold. Several of the hand planes I've purchased have badly chipped japaning. It looks like the plane has leprosy. I'd like to know how to strip this off.
Is sand blasting a real "no no"?
If so, what else works? Chemicals? Electrolysis?
Can someone point me in the direction of a WWW site, or book that details how to re-apply japaning?

I just want to see how much trouble this is and if it's worth doing.

Thanks,
Dominic

[Bruce Page]

Dominic, from a metallurgical standpoint, bead blasting can relieve stresses that might be in the casting, possibly creating some movement. That said, bead blasting sure cleans up the metal nicely. Be sure to plug the tapped holes with some throwaway bolts to protect the threads.

[Dominic Greco]

Dominic, from a metallurgical standpoint, bead blasting can relieve stresses that might be in the casting, possibly creating some movement. That said, bead blasting sure cleans up the metal nicely. Be sure to plug the tapped holes with some throwaway bolts to protect the threads.

Bruce,
You make a good point. At my old job we used to buy these plastic bolts that were meant to be threaded into tapped holes before we sent the piece to the blasting booth. I think I might have a couple of these things laying around somewhere. I just need to find them!:D

My concern about bead blasting stems from an experience I had while working at the same mfg plant. We were making these metal tool boxes for a peice of military gear and noticed that the lids would not close after they came back from painting. It turned out that the culprit was NOT the painting, but the bead blasting before painting. Granted, these boxes were 10 Ga construction (which is pretty thin walled). But this kind of experience makes a guy skittish.

[David Weaver]

I think electrolysis will only lift japanning and paint if there is rust under it. Anything that's adhered well to non-corroded metal will stay on.

I can confirm that in the next couple of days. So far, I've only used the process on unpainted pieces, but I have a plane exactly like you described.

There are several pages that describe japanning. In the end, it's probably easier to order it from someone who makes a big batch and sells it off in bottles (there's a guy, can't recall his name, but if you google how to apply japanning, you'll find discussion threads on him - it looks like he only works by phone - no internet). You have to have an oven that you'll be allowed to bake the plane in several times, too.

I'm leaning toward just using a high-heat enamel on an old #8 that I got because it's going to be a user. There are several suggestions online for emulsified types of paint that build thick like japanning, but I've never tried any of them, and couldn't find them at the Borg.

[Terry Bigelow]

I have used a BORG spray-on paint stripper with great results. It takes a couple of rounds of spraying, waiting, scrubbing and rinsing but the results were great. I didn't really think it would work but I've done it three times now and it works like a charm. I would wear some heavy-duty gloves and glasses, the stuff is pretty nasty and burns like you know what when it does get to your skin.

[David Weaver]

Terry - thanks for the tip. I'll put that one to work this weekend.

[Dominic Greco]

Thanks for all the input David. I appreciate you passing it along to me

[Dominic Greco]

I have used a BORG spray-on paint stripper with great results. It takes a couple of rounds of spraying, waiting, scrubbing and rinsing but the results were great. I didn't really think it would work but I've done it three times now and it works like a charm. I would wear some heavy-duty gloves and glasses, the stuff is pretty nasty and burns like you know what when it does get to your skin.

Thanks for passing this along to me Terry. I'll give it a shot.

[Wes Bischel]

Dominic,
One thing to consider is the cabinet your friend has most likely uses a small nozzle and 100lbs or less of pressure. The industrial units have much larger nozzles and use high pressures to get jobs done faster. (time is money!) I don't think a small cabinet will be an issue. I have used blasting to clean auto parts and machine parts for years and never had an issue with warping a part - even thin sheet metal.
That said, don't forget about a wire wheel.

Two links I have:
http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/Galoots/pRMorin/html/japanning.html

https://home.comcast.net/~rexmill/planes101/japanning/japanning.htm

Good luck,
Wes

[Clint Jones]

I agree with Terry. I have redone quite a few planes and I just spray them with can stripper. The can will say "STRIPPER" real big on the front. You just spray it on and the jappaning bubbles up and you can spray it off with a water hose. You may have to spray the plane a couple of times to remove jappaning around the corners. You can pick the stripper up at Lowes or HD just dont tell your wife your going to pick up strippers.

[Dominic Greco]

I just spoke with my friend here who has the sand blasting cabinet. While I fully intend to try the chemical stripper first, some time soon we're going to try bead blasting a busted up parts plane I have to see how that will work.

When I brought up the subject of re-applying the japaning, he mentioned a 2 part epoxy paint he used to refurbish some John Deer tractor parts. He said that it's tough, durable, self leveling, and dries to a glossy finish. He said he'll bring in a tool that he's painted so I can see how it came out.

In the links Wes provided I read how some people used different types of paint as opposed to the "authentic coat and bake process". I wonder if anyone has tried 2 part epoxy paint?

[David Weaver]

I don't know how epoxy paint will look compared to japanning, and whether or not it's exact, but you won't be lacking in durability with epoxy, and it will clean off easily. If you bead blast, it doesn't sound like you'll have any issues with having a clean surface to start off with, either.

I'm still waffling around whether or not I want to re-japan or try an alternative type of paint. All of the high-heat enamels I've been able to find in small quantities are flat (presumably intended for gas grills), and I'll end up applying shellac over them to get them to shine.

Does anyone who has applied japanning know how long the oven stinks after you do it? That's something that I have to consider because my wife is a clean freak, and smells count as something being "dirty".

[Pat Zabrocki]

Twelve years of rugby in my youth (and lots of other stupid stuf) has left me with a damaged sniffer at best and I could still smell it for a couple of weeks.

Me thinks the wife will not be happy :)

cheers
Pat

[George Moore]

Has anyone tried a Hammered finish by Rust-Oleum? It has a nice gloss and tends to self level. I just ried it on an old Bailey #5 and it looks great. I don't have a digital camera or I would post a phot. You can also paint over rust with it.

George

[Bruce Page]

Dominic, you might also try sending Terry Hatfield a PM/email. He came up with a faux Jappanning that looks as real as you’ll find anywhere. (I have a few of his restorations)
I believe the product that he used was called “Seymour MRO High Solids Industrial Coating”.

[Terry Bigelow]

Hey Dom, here's a link to a previous thread with lots 'o pics of a Bedrock I rehabbed. There's also a pic farther down of the stripper and the "faux jappaning" I use(rustoleum satin black). Hope this helps.:http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=57224

[David Weaver]

Dominic, you might also try sending Terry Hatfield a PM/email. He came up with a faux Jappanning that looks as real as you’ll find anywhere. (I have a few of his restorations)
I believe the product that he used was called “Seymour MRO High Solids Industrial Coating”.

Bruce - I found some high solids industrial paints, too, but I could only find them in one gallon and five gallon buckets, and they were at places where you had to have a commercial account. Maybe a search on the name will yield more fruit. Thanks.

[Dominic Greco]

Hey Dom, here's a link to a previous thread with lots 'o pics of a Bedrock I rehabbed. There's also a pic farther down of the stripper and the "faux jappaning" I use(rustoleum satin black). Hope this helps.:http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=57224

Terry,
That old Bedrock looks simply awesome! You did one hell of a job. What a great essay on restoring a grand old beauty.

I also noticed that I worked on my own hand plane restoration project(s), that as as I "perfected" my system, each consecutive re-furbed plane looked better than the last. As a last step I just love polishing the plane to a mirror finish with 2500 grit sandpaper.

[Bob Opsitos]

Hey Dom, here's a link to a previous thread with lots 'o pics of a Bedrock I rehabbed. There's also a pic farther down of the stripper and the "faux jappaning" I use(rustoleum satin black). Hope this helps.:http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=57224

I'm diggin' that look. Reminds me of how the LV planes look. I've got a fulton #4 that the electrolysis remove the japanning (or what ever they used) and this would be an easy way to coat the inside.

Did you prime and then paint? How retentive did you have to get with the masking to achieve what you did?

Mine will only be a user so I'm only going to work so hard at it, but it would be nice to know how hard you had to work to do what you did.

Thanks
bob

[Dave Sinkus]

This is a similar process that is often discussed around resorting classic cars - 60's 70's muscle cars. Sand blasting, bead blasting, walnut shell blasting all will strip rust or paint, but they also remove some of the metal.

There is a method using baking soda instead of heavier, metal removing media. The baking soda is abrasive enough to strip paint and rust but not a lot of material. It also is environmentally friendly as it breaks down in the rain.

Maybe this is an option for you?

Thanks,
Dave

[Terry Bigelow]

Did you prime and then paint? How retentive did you have to get with the masking to achieve what you did?

Mine will only be a user so I'm only going to work so hard at it, but it would be nice to know how hard you had to work to do what you did.

Thanks
bob
Bob, no I did no priming just several applications of stripper and after rinsing I wire wheeled on both the drill press and with a small wire wheel on the Dremel in the tight spots.

Also, almost no masking was involved. I think I only masked the bottom of the frog and the matching part where the frog is attached on the bed. All of the overspray I quickly wiped off with lacquer thinner and sand/wire wheel(carefully) when dry.

As far as the amount of work I guess everyone's view of how hard or easy something is is personal. Honestly, I was suprised with just how easy the whole process is. Part of that is due to the fact I enjoy it I guess. Another reason is the fact that I now have somewhat of a system and it seems to work well. As Dom and I both said, the more you do the better you get and the better the outcome. I don't have any industrial equipment or any secret tricks it's just some sandpaper, stripper, wire wheel, paint and sweat! I have said before here that I think sometimes it is exaggerated the amount of time and energy it takes to "fettle" an old plane. I respect the fact that some just don't care to do so but it really is easy. I spent a few hours one night to get about 99% of the plane in the pics done. All that was left the next day was a new knob, tote, blade and chip breaker. I enjoy using the plane and the process to get it there too! My newest rehabbing habit is saws!!!!! OH NO!! I'll have to put some pics up of some Disstons I rehandled, cleaned and sharpened. Will this ever end?

[Jim Boyett]

Well, I'll put my $.02 in here also.

I just finished japanning (not painting) a #6 and a #7. I put them in the kitchen oven because they would not fit in the small toaster oven that I use outside. The smell is not horrible, but it is not great either. I turned on some fans and opened the doors. My wife didn't complain too loudly but didn't want to be in the kitchen with that smell either. I don't think the smell lasted too long (maybe an hour after I was done.) I having second thoughts about whether I want to do that again in the kitchen oven.

The japanning job came out reasonably well. I let it dry for a week or two and then used some fine steel wool and some fine rubbing compound to take of the high gloss sheen so it looked a little more like an antique.

I've also used some "baking lacquer" from brownells.com that is used on guns. It works well and makes a very hard surface and is semi-gloss, but it is not as smooth as the genuine thick japanning.

I also tried some semi-gloss Rustoleum spray can paint. It looks OK also, but doesn't seem to be too hard. I can easily mark it with my fingernail right now. Maybe it will harden as it ages.

Paint just doesn't cover up the roughness of the cast iron, however. You can definitely see the difference in it and true japanning.

I generally remove old japanning with paint remover. I recently got a very small sand blaster from Harbor Freight to help clean out the corners and crevices and it seems to work OK. My air compressor isn't that powerful and I don't see any damage done to the plane whatsoever. I'm just using some fine sand I got from the beach right now.

Most the planes I refinish didn't have much japanning left on them and were pretty bad looking to start with.

By the way, I mixed my own japanning from asphaltum powder I ordered off the internet and turpentine. I brushed it on. It's a lot of work, and painting is a LOT easier, so the jury is still out on whether I want to do that again.

Jim
Santa Rosa, CA