Stroke sander questions

[Lloyd McKinlay]

Stroke sanders are mentioned from time to time but don't seem to be popular, even though they appear to cost much less than a large drum sander.

Can someone provide a crash course on this type of machine? What does it do well? What doesn't it do (dust collection?). Are parts and supplies readily available? Most important is how well it performs and ease of use.

What should you look for if purchasing a used machine?

[Jim Becker]

Lloyd, I suspect that one of the reasons that you don't see to many stroke sanders is that their size is pretty impractical for most small shops. But I hear they do a nice job and hope that you get some good responses about them from folks familiar with their operation.

[Merle Clor]

I am currently trying to decide if I should purchase a stroke sander or a Woodmaster or similar product. I have used a stroke sander and there is a learning curve to getting a flat surface with one. I haven't used a Woodmaster, but would assume that it is reasonably easy to end with a flat surface. I will be very interested in seeing other responses to this question.
Thanks,
Merle

[Bruce Wrenn]

There is an article in Taunton's book "Fine Woodworking on Making and Modifying Machines." It is an older publication, so you have to search for a copy. Basically a carriage that work is supported on that goes under belt. Due to length, belts are not cheap. Most used units that you find are going to be three phase.

[Jon Dieterlen]

I've had a stroke sander for 20+ years. It is an Italian machine with a 36" x 96" table. Uses a 6 x 275 belt. We used it for 15 years to sand cabinet doors and plywood tops after edgebanding, and anything else you can think of. I then purchased a 37" drumsander, then a 37" 2 head widebelt.

The stroke sander is by far the most versatile sander in the shop. A skilled operator can sand doors much faster than the drum sander and they will be reasonably flat. You can also sand veneer material without sanding thru the veneer. Even with the widebelt, I would never consider selling the strokesander. If I had a choice between the drum and the stroke sander, I would go for the stroke sander every time.

Jon

[Charles Grosjean]

Stroke sanders are mentioned from time to time but don't seem to be popular, even though they appear to cost much less than a large drum sander.

Woodweb has some nice discussions in the archives on stroke sanders. I think you will find that a new stroke sander is more expensive than a new drum sander, but cheaper than a new widebelt.

On the used market, they can go for significantly less. MiniMax made a very nice one (L-55?) that had a tilting table so you could do edge sanding on large pieces. The only small one I've seen is the Grizzly. Otherwise, these things take a significant footprint.

[Neil Lamens]

Hi Lloyd:

Plain and simply, It's a production machine Lloyd, as others above have mentioned, it's big, but there's more.

I find your question interesting though because, I've always fealt a stroke sander was much better than the presently available shop drum sanders but not only do they need shop space, they need production to reach their efficiency. This includes operator efficiency.

What makes this machine great in a production environment is its versitility, If the stroke sander runs its machining course in a particular "line build", the bed post turning department can always use an extra for the bed post flats for example.

Here's another versitile use........shipment of MDF comes-in, some knucklehead drags the corner and runs a guage in another face. The cutter still runs the sheet through for parts, bondo's the gauge as they appear on parts, cleans-up the bondo on the stroke sander and keeps production going. Parts come to the next stage without interruption.

The stroke sander,..... a great misunderstood machine.......Neil

[Rick Lizek]

I've used all kinds of sanders over the years and the stroke sander is one of the most versatile you could ever use. I never recommend drum sanders over stroke sanders. Even with a widebelt a stroke sander is a plus. It doestake some practice and the fulcrum pad is definitely a higher level of skill than the handblock. It actually takes an afternoon to properly make a good handblock. A skilled operator can flatten somewhat but better glue ups would be the proper thing anyway. A renowned marquetarian uses one in his shop on veneers. It's not necessarily just a production machine. The smallest I've seen is a Boice Crane and they can get preetty big with the Mattison's you can set the pedestals apart as far as you want. Used ones are pretty cheap and it's kind of funny that most of the machine catalogs have them in there but few people have a clue as to what they are and how great they are.


You can sand profiles and odd shapes. We used graphite mitts in certain applications.
http://www.proengcorp.com/graphite_accessories.htm#top%20of%20page Best source for graphite. Best source for belts is www.industrialabrasives.com (http://www.industrialabrasives.com) by far.

I also put a stroke sander in a custom metal shop. They thought there was no way to duplicate their tedious hand rubbed finish. Works well on duplicating the brushed finish in stainless. A bronze plaque shop uses one daily.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I intend to build one.
You need two drums (which you can make) on shafts and pedastle bearings.
Then you need a motor that can drive it all (4 - 5 HP).
You need a table that slides in and out under the belt on some kind of bearing whether it's waxed hardwood rails, or linear slides, or rollers or what - it matters not so long as the movement is pretty smooth and straight.

A downside to a belt stroker is that you can't do very accurate thicknessing with any great ease. You can rig your paddle up on a "bridge" (like a router bridge) and get pretty darn good at thicknessing but drums fixed in bearings at both ends will still be more accurate.


Strokers also allow you to sand profiles which you'll never do in a drum sander, and you can do larger surfaces in a stroker. Ya just need the space cause most strokers are rather long.

The belts in strokers should last a very long time 'cause you can make you rollers large enough that they don't flex the abrasive off the belt and you really don't use a lot of pressure.

You do need a highly lubricious material for your paddle like a teflon pad or highly waxed maple or something some folks use waxed carbon fiber.

[Rick Lizek]

FWW had a good article on building a small stroke sander. See my post above for "the graphite source". I can't imagine building one when they are so cheap used and I have all the tools and technology to do it. Been using them for 34 years on wood and metal.

[frank shic]

how's the dust collection on these guys?

[Rick Lizek]

It's fine if the shrouds are in place such as the newer styles. Many of the older ones are more open but could be shrouded over better. And it depends on your dust system as well.

[Lloyd McKinlay]

Thanks for all the informative answers. The Sawmill Creek community really is an amazing resource for information.

[Don Kondra]

Long story, short. Well, kinda...

Buying a home made stroke sander allowed me to concentrate on the more enjoyable aspects of furniture making :)

I easily recovered the $1000 purchase price in the first year.

My shop is just big enough that I don't begrudge the 4' x 7' footprint and I can sand panels up to 60" long.

I had an opportunity to trade my sander for a commercially made model that would sand 8' but decided the extra capacity would push the limits of my floor space.

Belts are about $20 @ if you buy a dozen at a time and they do last quite a while. (Klingspor)

My normal operating procedure is to sand all parts before assembly so hand sanding is kept to a minimum ie. three or four passes with sandpaper on a rubber block.

Control is exceptional with a fairly short learning curve with a hand held, graphite coated pad.

Stroke sanding veneered panels is a breeze...

With highly figured wood I use a 6" x 18" drum sander and then the stroke sander. The drum sander may not tear out like a thickness planer but the surface still has the same lightly scalloped surface as a thickness planer that must be cleaned up.

I spray finish for a local furniture shop and their procedure for panels is wide belt sander, then stroke sand and finally hand sand.

Even with a serious wide belt sander, the stroke sander saves an enormous amount of time in final hand sanding.

Sure, you can hand plane and scrape to your hearts content. But if you aren't into hand tools that much and just want to get it done correctly and quickly, the stroke sander would be my first purchase.....

[Rick Lizek]

"Belts are about $20 @ if you buy a dozen at a time and they do last quite a while. (Klingspor)"
Buy your belts from Industrial Abrasives. Best prices and lowest minumum for custom belts. 2 belt minumum.
A better handblock is 1/4" felt covered with graphite cloth and weighted with lead shot. See Process Engineering for the graphite.

[Merle Clor]

So, it I understand correctly, the thought is that if space isn't a problem, a stroke sander is preferable to a drum sander or a wide belt sander. Is that a true statement?
Thanks,
Merle

[Rick Lizek]

Oversimplified. Stroke sanders are better than drum sanders for general sanding applications. A widebelt is better for thicknessing but with a better glue up strategy the stroke sander will make life simple. Drum sanders are fine for doing long thicknessing such as sanding your own veneers. With the proper handblock a stroke sander can send wood right into staining. A drum sander will require additional hand sanding to remove drum ripples before staining. A widebelt with a platen can send wood right into to staining with no other hand sanding. We always had a stroke sander and widebelt in the bigger shops. Stroke sanders can handle wider panels but are limited in lengths you can handle.

For building custom furniture I prefer a stroke sander. If building custom one off guitars a drum sander would be my choice to thickness tops and sides. For production guitar making I'd want a widebelt. Unfortunately the stroke sander is kind if forgotten but that doesn't mean it isn't a great tool.

[Jeff Raymond]

I may have had a similar machine to Jon's.

It was a 3-phase, 3 motor job with a movable bed. There's nothing better for panel work than this puppy. I got it from a local production wood company for cheap and should never have sold it.

You can either use the lever to press the paper to the wood or artfully use a sanding block with graphite paper on it, which I learned how to do.

It left a slick, polish on the wood, good stuff.

If I found another one I'd buy it in a flash.

[Phil Clark]

Long story, short. Well, kinda...



With highly figured wood I use a 6" x 18" drum sander and then the stroke sander. The drum sander may not tear out like a thickness planer but the surface still has the same lightly scalloped surface as a thickness planer that must be cleaned up.

I spray finish for a local furniture shop and their procedure for panels is wide belt sander, then stroke sand and finally hand sand.


....
I'm interested in your comment about using the stroke sander after the drum sander. Could you say more about that as I would have thought the drum sander then hand sanding would be the natural course.

[Rick Lizek]

The drum sander leaves small scallops or ripples similar to a planers finish. One could handsand, random orbiit or real hand sanding. If you have a stroke sander it would be quicker to use this. With a proper handblock one can take the wood right into staining without anymore handsanding. I have to emphasize the proper handblock as I have seen many poorly made handblocks which did require additional sanding. It's a shame as some folks have negative experiences with stroke sanders as they never learned the proper techniques in using and setting up the machine.

[Phil Clark]

Thanks Rick - I get it. I have both machines but have only been using the stroke sander for larger pieces. But those marks you refer to left by the drum sander are really annoying when you've missed them in hand sanding and apply your first finish coat.

[Rick Lizek]

http://carterproducts.com/product_list.asp?p_id=1&cat_id=10
Have you tried inspection lights to view for QC. Basically it's car headlights (low heat). It shows the smallest issue. Lights are positioned at the height of the sander table.

[Phil Clark]

http://carterproducts.com/product_list.asp?p_id=1&cat_id=10
Have you tried inspection lights to view for QC. Basically it's car headlights (low heat). It shows the smallest issue. Lights are positioned at the height of the sander table.

I'm going to look into that. Recently I was demonstrating to a novice the issues relating to sanding before finishing. The lighting in my shop leaves much to be desired so we ended up going outside and tipping the spalted birch piece in various angles. Sure enough at one point the drum sander marks showed up.