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Bill Grumbine
06-15-2007, 9:59 AM
How do these people manage to keep their jobs?!? I had to buy a computer, and could not find one WITHOUT Vista. So now I am trying to learn all the "improvements" made for the sake of progress. The irritation du jour is the print function. Someone, in their infinite wisdom, has deigned to add more steps to actually get a page to print. Along with that, the functions for printing a certain page - i.e. one page, page one, or current page - have all disappeared. I now have the choice of "all", "odd", or "even".


Who thinks this stuff up?!?

SWMBO the programmer went looking to see if the former options were hidden somewhere. She hasn't been able to find them. I remarked that even if they are still there, the process has become so cryptic that us regular types would NEVER stumble upon it. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Is there something I am missing? Does anyone have a solution? Please don't bother to respond if your solution is "you should have bought something else". I have it, and I am stuck with it, and I am not getting rid of it, like it or not, and I can tell you I don't like it. I need to learn to deal with it, and I am not liking that either. But if someone here has something constructive that can help me actually print one page, and the page that I want, I would be very grateful.

Bill

Pete Simmons
06-15-2007, 10:04 AM
Bill:

Do not dispair! There will be a fix soon for only $29!
Meanwhile---
Mr. Gates sends you a warm Thank You for adding a few more $$$ to his wallet.


From Your Friends at MS!

Randal Stevenson
06-15-2007, 10:47 AM
Dell started selling computers with XP again, partially due to this (insert word). They had to do some deal with MS, though.

Don't like it, well you could find a legal copy of XP and install that instead (print out the specs from your pc first, if possible, so you get the correct drivers).
You could get a bootable Linux Distro and see if it will work for you.

There is a series of annoyance books, while it probably is too early for a Vista version, it's not too eary for the annoyances. I believe the author has a forum that deals with them (book material).

So many printers have gone networked, is it any different if the printer is on the network verses directly in the machine? (not likely but something to try, OTHER then the BFH)

Matt Meiser
06-15-2007, 10:52 AM
Odd or Even is so you can print a document double-sided on a printer that doesn't do double sided. Print all the odd first, put the paper back in the tray, then print the even.

That said, I still use XP on everything, and have no plans to switch. My SIL has been complaining about her new laptop with Vista too.

Ken Garlock
06-15-2007, 11:04 AM
Good luck Bill.

You may not have the facilities to do the following, but here is one option.

Using a backup tool like ghost or the like, make a copy of your old XP system to an external USB-attached disk.

Attach the external disk to your new system.

Back up personal files to the external disk, mail, favorites, etc.

Boot ghost from its CD and proceed with a complete system restore to the new machine.

Lastly, import your mail, and using file explorer import/copy your personal data to its correct place.

This advice is worth what you paid for it.;)

Joe Pelonio
06-15-2007, 11:10 AM
I'm sure many other will be joining you in complaining when they are forced to have Vista when their old PCs die.

It's a good practice to buy a new computer right before MS comes out with a new OS, IMHO. Even a used one for backup.

Jason Boushard
06-15-2007, 11:15 AM
linux is so much nicer than windows. ubuntoo is an easy beginers distro from what you have said about your wife she should be able to set you up no problem.

Randal Stevenson
06-15-2007, 11:17 AM
Good luck Bill.

You may not have the facilities to do the following, but here is one option.

Using a backup tool like ghost or the like, make a copy of your old XP system to an external USB-attached disk.

Attach the external disk to your new system.

Back up personal files to the external disk, mail, favorites, etc.

Boot ghost from its CD and proceed with a complete system restore to the new machine.

Lastly, import your mail, and using file explorer import/copy your personal data to its correct place.

This advice is worth what you paid for it.;)

Gonna have an issue with that one, as the drivers are going to be different (different motherboard chipsets, video (most likely), sound, network etc. Would/should also trigger the XP change need authorization (more then x different things).

John Schreiber
06-15-2007, 11:18 AM
I'm suffering along side of you. We bought a laptop for my daughter to take to college and I keep looking at Vista and thinking. "This is the best they could do?"

They worked about seven years and it's a minor improvement in some places and major steps backward in others.

Jim Becker
06-15-2007, 12:22 PM
One must be careful if Ghosting a PC to another PC if they are not identical hardware when it includes the operating system...Randall points out some real gotchas...


Good luck Bill.

You may not have the facilities to do the following, but here is one option.

Using a backup tool like ghost or the like, make a copy of your old XP system to an external USB-attached disk.

Attach the external disk to your new system.

Back up personal files to the external disk, mail, favorites, etc.

Boot ghost from its CD and proceed with a complete system restore to the new machine.

Lastly, import your mail, and using file explorer import/copy your personal data to its correct place.

This advice is worth what you paid for it.;)

Dennis Peacock
06-15-2007, 12:50 PM
I'm running Vista and haven't had but one problem with it...I have been running a very old version of software and I simply upgraded. So far, my experiences with Vista has been very positive. :D

Bill Grumbine
06-15-2007, 12:59 PM
I'm running Vista and haven't had but one problem with it...I have been running a very old version of software and I simply upgraded. So far, my experiences with Vista has been very positive. :D

Have you tried to print anything yet Dennis? SWMBO has discovered a slight - very slight - positive note here. If I open Word 2007, I can select the page I want to print. HOWEVER, if I want to print an email from Outlook (which I do on a regular basis), that function is gone. It was there in XP, and Outlook is set up to use Word as its editor, etc. I suppose I could copy and paste all the emails I need to print, but without going into a lot of sordid detail, that is going to increase my workload considerably - either that or waste paper. You would think those environmentalists in WA would be striving to cut down on paper use, huh?

Matt, I know what odd/even is for. That is not my complaint. My complaint is the loss of functions that were there before, but mysteriously vanished.

I appreciate the comments and responses. It would be really nice if the mental giants at Microsoft would leave well enough alone when they get something working, but apparently that is not good enough. Revenge of the nerds indeed... :(

Bill

glenn bradley
06-15-2007, 3:22 PM
I work for the Universities of California and we get a bit of everything. At home I run Win2K Pro and have had no desire to change for my personal activities. At work it's XP, Linux, HPUX, Vista, OSX, whatever but that's task specific work stuff. At home I K.I.S.S.

Mark Cothren
06-15-2007, 3:35 PM
I know nothing about Vista, but have heard very few positive reports on it (including Dennis'). I run XP Pro on both of my computers - work and home - and wouldn't really care to change.

Next time I need a new computer I think I'll just have one built. I'll buy a horse and deliver my mail via pony before I buy another computer from Dell...:mad:

Stuart Johnson
06-15-2007, 3:38 PM
It sounds like it is a problem with outlook not Vista. I am using Vista but with Thunderbird as my email program. When I select print I get all, pages from/to and selection as my options.

Jim Becker
06-15-2007, 4:13 PM
In a sense, there is no concept of "pages" when printing an email like there is when in a word processor like Word...that may be why the behavior in Outlook is what it is, even though in previous releases it may have had that feature available in a shared dialog box. It sounds like Vista added context-sensitivity to the print function. One question though...are you using your previous license/version of Office or are you using the Office 2007 product that was released with Vista?

Cliff Rohrabacher
06-15-2007, 5:01 PM
Take the computer back. Get a refund.

Then
buy:
AMD processor
ASUS motherboard
Samsung Memory
Western Digital hard drives
LaCie Moniter ( they are top of the line Sony's for less)
Plextor CD & DVD
Any graphics card you want
A linksys card
A power supply (A common reason people replace their computers is the cheap factory power supply died they are $40.00 new and they don't have any to test it)

Oh and a keyboard and an optical trackball

The parts all go together like tinker toys. If it looks like it goes in that slot then it does.

Chuck Wintle
06-15-2007, 5:17 PM
Bill,
Why not go back to Windows XP instead using Windows Vista? :)

Dennis Peacock
06-15-2007, 5:20 PM
Have you tried to print anything yet Dennis? SWMBO has discovered a slight - very slight - positive note here. If I open Word 2007, I can select the page I want to print. HOWEVER, if I want to print an email from Outlook (which I do on a regular basis), that function is gone. It was there in XP, and Outlook is set up to use Word as its editor, etc. I suppose I could copy and paste all the emails I need to print, but without going into a lot of sordid detail, that is going to increase my workload considerably - either that or waste paper. You would think those environmentalists in WA would be striving to cut down on paper use, huh?
Bill


Yes I have. I print to 2 different printers and one of them is about 10 years old. I print about 40 pages each week between myself and the LOML printing. No problems so far.

Dennis Peacock
06-15-2007, 5:23 PM
It sounds like it is a problem with outlook not Vista. I am using Vista but with Thunderbird as my email program. When I select print I get all, pages from/to and selection as my options.

Vista doesn't come with Outlook. It comes with "Windows Mail" and is a different user interface than Outlook. It does import all addresses, messages, and archived messages into the new Windows Mail.

Jeff Wright
06-15-2007, 5:33 PM
This discussion makes me want to return to Apple IF it weren't for incompatibility with my many applications I've bought over the years and don't want to be without. Please, don't anyone tell me that today's Apple will operate PC software WITHOUT any issues. I've heard that fantasy before!

David DeCristoforo
06-15-2007, 5:33 PM
Well...imagine that. Who ever would have thought that a "new" OS from MS would cause such an uproar? As I see it, you have two options. Do as a previous responder suggested and wipe your HD and install expee. Or, use the peecee for a door stop, boat anchor or whatever and buy a Mac. MS is desperately trying to keep pace with OSX but they just don't seem to "get it"....

Bill Grumbine
06-15-2007, 5:40 PM
Jim, I am using Word 2007, Office Outlook 2007, and Vista. I titled my post Vista because there is a whole lot that is new, different, and not really better that I have seen. The print problem comes with that. Everything worked just fine printing out emails one page at a time with XP.

Another problem, since I am beefing about this thing, is the stupid virus program they foisted off on me. I have no idea if the problem is with the program or with Vista, but I turned it off to install other programs like I was told to do by the install wizard. Now I cannot find any way to turn it back ON. Occasionally a bubble pops up to tell me it is turned off, and if I want to fix it I should click on the bubble. When I do that, it tells me that everything is on and operational!

Cliff, I am not about to return this and try to build one. I don't have the time or patience to build a computer, much less the knowledge.

Dennis, since you seem to have no problem, perhaps you could offer me a few suggestions as to how to make this thing work.

Stuart, I switched to Outlook because I was fed up with Outlook Express. It looks like I may need to start thinking about switching again.

Windows, Vista, Outlook, Word, it is all put out by the same company. You think they might consider getting them to work together instead of conflicting.

Bill

Steven Wilson
06-15-2007, 6:22 PM
Bill, I'm looking at Outlook running on my home and work PC's (XP Pro) and press print I get the Outlook print dialog box and I see selections for printer, Print Style (memo, etc) and Copies. Under Copies I see Number of Pages, number of copies, and collate. Number of pages gives me all, even, or odd. I don't see an option (like Word) for 1-4, 8 and the like.

Both of my Outlook's are setup to use Rich Text for the Mail Format (Tools/Options/Mail Format). Now, if I set up my Outlook to use MS word to edit emails and then I actually edit one (i.e. reply to an email and not just browse) then when I click print, I get a box that allows me to enter page ranges. My guess is it's your Outlook settings and not Vista.

Ken Garlock
06-15-2007, 8:31 PM
Bill, I got tired of Outlook taking a "year and a day" to display the text of a message. I also didn't like the new features of IE7.

So, a couple months ago, I installed Mozilla Firefox and like it very much. It has the features of IE7 without the overhead. After frustration with Outlook, I installed Mozilla Thunderbird and haven't looked back. Yes, it takes a learning curve. Things like a calender are add-ons, or defining a signature could be made considerably easier. Overall, Thunderbird is a very good email client. When you click the print icon, it displays the windows standard print device window that allows you to select the page and copies you want to print.

The price is right: free.

Jim Becker
06-15-2007, 9:06 PM
Please, don't anyone tell me that today's Apple will operate PC software WITHOUT any issues. I've heard that fantasy before!

Today's Apple will run Windows XP native...which is why an Intel Mac will likely be my next PC. I also have a number of application investments that have license agreements precluding switching platforms without re-buying. Not gonna do that, I suspect!

Jack Dickey
06-15-2007, 10:11 PM
Well maybe I just aint tech savvy enuff with this stuff ( highly likely ) , but I have Vista Home Premium in a Speed Demon Gateway , and so far I like it , tho I was just getting used to Xp when it went up in flames ..

Art Mulder
06-16-2007, 8:35 AM
Please, don't anyone tell me that today's Apple will operate PC software WITHOUT any issues. I've heard that fantasy before!

Like Jim said, it will run XP native. With BootCamp you can just reboot your Intel Mac into WinXP -- so no Apple OS is running at all at that point. Or you can get Parallels or VMware and run WinXP inside a window under MacOS. Your choice.

But of course, you are right that you will still have issues... You're still running Windows after all. :D:p

John Durscher
06-16-2007, 8:43 AM
Jeff,

Last year I switched to one of the Intel iMacs after using a PC since they first came out. If you use boot camp (free from Apple) you can boot the iMac as a PC. I did this for awhile and it ran everything that I needed flawlessly.

A while back I started using something called Parallels which allows you to run a "virtual" Windows environment within OSX. The first version had some issues, but the current one has done everything that I could ask. Although, I have slowly migrated to using just about everything in OSX, it is nice to be able to use Windows when I need it.

Of course, your results may vary. :)

John


This discussion makes me want to return to Apple IF it weren't for incompatibility with my many applications I've bought over the years and don't want to be without. Please, don't anyone tell me that today's Apple will operate PC software WITHOUT any issues. I've heard that fantasy before!

Burt Alcantara
06-19-2007, 12:20 PM
Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Microsoft has implemented Digital Rights Management into Vista. This allows Vista to selectively deny any program they deem unfit to install on your computer. And, it is protected by CONGRESS. Talk about having politicians in your pocket...

There are other insidious things. Google will reveal the nastiness (and capture everything you did [for its own purposes]).

John Schreiber
06-19-2007, 2:09 PM
This isn't Vista as such, but I just learned that Office 2007 is NOT COMPATIBLE with older versions of Word, Excel, etc. The suffixes for 2007 are four characters long docx, xlsb, xlsx, xlsm etc.

If I write something in the new version of Word, and transfer it over to my old computer, I can't open it there. If I send it to a friend, he may not be able to open it. If I post it on the web, users may not be able to open it.

There is a fix, but it requires downloading more stuff from Microsoft, then you have options in your old Word etc, to save in either the new or the old format.

It really makes me wonder about going Linux/open source for my next box.

Jim Becker
06-19-2007, 2:20 PM
John, the fix is to save it in the previous format...pretty much the same as it was for earlier versions of Office which changed formats along the way. I don't have Office 2007, but it is likely you can change the default "save" format for each application to a previous version, too. It's been possible in the past and I don't think that wouldn't be true now.

James Owen
06-19-2007, 2:37 PM
How do these people manage to keep their jobs?!? I had to buy a computer, and could not find one WITHOUT Vista. So now I am trying to learn all the "improvements" made for the sake of progress. The irritation du jour is the print function. Someone, in their infinite wisdom, has deigned to add more steps to actually get a page to print. Along with that, the functions for printing a certain page - i.e. one page, page one, or current page - have all disappeared. I now have the choice of "all", "odd", or "even".


Who thinks this stuff up?!?

SWMBO the programmer went looking to see if the former options were hidden somewhere. She hasn't been able to find them. I remarked that even if they are still there, the process has become so cryptic that us regular types would NEVER stumble upon it. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Is there something I am missing? Does anyone have a solution? Please don't bother to respond if your solution is "you should have bought something else". I have it, and I am stuck with it, and I am not getting rid of it, like it or not, and I can tell you I don't like it. I need to learn to deal with it, and I am not liking that either. But if someone here has something constructive that can help me actually print one page, and the page that I want, I would be very grateful.

Bill

Bill,



This probably won't make you feel any better, but I'll ask the rhetorical question, anyway:
Ever wonder why Apple's Mac OS continues to (slowly and steadily) gain market share.....? Simple answer: Thank Mr. Gates. He's figured out a way to convince millions of people to pay $199 +/- a copy to Beta Test his software...... Pure genius!!! Even if it does tend to "irritate" many people......

Chuck Wintle
06-19-2007, 4:55 PM
Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Microsoft has implemented Digital Rights Management into Vista. This allows Vista to selectively deny any program they deem unfit to install on your computer. And, it is protected by CONGRESS. Talk about having politicians in your pocket...

There are other insidious things. Google will reveal the nastiness (and capture everything you did [for its own purposes]).

All the more reason to look seriously at Linux. I do not like the direction Microsoft is going with Vista. Its becoming too "big brother" for my liking. The notion of privacy is going the way of the dinosaur. Companies have so much information on individuals that it is a little scary what they know. :(

Mike Null
06-19-2007, 5:56 PM
Add me to the list of those unhappy with Vista. Can't find my way around and most annoying is that Windows explorer is gone and I can't find anything there to replace it. If you look really hard you can find files but the ease of finding everything on one screen has escaped me.

Fortunately it's a backup lap top that I really can get by without--just sorry I bought it.

Randal Stevenson
06-19-2007, 6:42 PM
Add me to the list of those unhappy with Vista. Can't find my way around and most annoying is that Windows explorer is gone and I can't find anything there to replace it. If you look really hard you can find files but the ease of finding everything on one screen has escaped me.

Fortunately it's a backup lap top that I really can get by without--just sorry I bought it.

Mike not singling you out, but you made me think of another option. Have those of you with these issues, switched it to classic mode (supposed to look and feel like XP)?

I am wondering if the options are less hid then.

Remember, I am running Linux, so I don't know, just asking.

Matt Meiser
06-19-2007, 7:59 PM
I don't have Office 2007, but it is likely you can change the default "save" format for each application to a previous version, too. It's been possible in the past and I don't think that wouldn't be true now.

I don't have it either, but others at work do and they can Save As the 2003 compatible formats.

John Schreiber
06-19-2007, 9:41 PM
John, the fix is to save it in the previous format...pretty much the same as it was for earlier versions of Office which changed formats along the way. . . .
Jim, You are right about this of course, I just keep thinking that at some point computers are going to start making things easier for the non-power user instead of harder.

I was able to talk my daughter through a solution via email, but word processors are a pretty mature product. I feel that at this point they should have things like this worked out.

Ken Salisbury
06-20-2007, 1:30 AM
I recently upgraded to Vista. So far I have had several problems with some of my programs not being compatible with Vista. However, I have been able to fix tham so far. As far as printing goes I had to go to HP for help. As it turns out numerous HP printers have Vista problems. HP has software available to download to solve individual printer problems. I simply went to HP's on-line support chat feature. The technician gave me the proper link to the download I needed which solved my problem. They also agreed to send me a new disk with the printer software that was compatible with Vista.

Bill - I don't know what brand printer you use, but if it HP you should try their technical help chat feature to see if you can solve your problem.

Your Friend

Ken

Bill Grumbine
06-20-2007, 8:01 AM
Hi Ken

We have one HP printer and one Brother. It is not the printer with which I have the problem, it is the programming. I started in on Vista (which I am not liking) but it actually seems to be either a Word or an Outlook problem. Who really knows? These Microsoft programs are so incestuous it is hard to sort out which is doing what or how. And of course, we all know how much "help" help is when you click on the button. We have come up with a workaround for now, but the whole thing reminds me of an old PA Dutch saying:

The faster I go, the behinder I get.

It seems the more "advanced" these machines become, the harder it is to figure out stuff they used to do easily. I am not that old and feeble that I need a child to program it for me yet, but I feel like I am getting there.

Bill