Need a little help

[Bob Hallowell]

I guy showed up at my house tonight, introduced himself and said he heard I was a woodworker and I was his last hope ( I knew he was in trouble right then and there). He pulled out these doors and said they were off a cabinet that was his grandmothers. He wants to restore and refinish it but someone along time ago sawed off a peice of the door to make it fit under a sloped ceiling :eek:

He wanted me to make a peice to fix the door. Now I know with my tailed tools I could get the general shape of it but what scares me is the carving. I have never done any.

I told him I would post it here and see if anyone wanted the job that lived within 2 or so hours, and if not maybe you guys could give me some help on the carving bit and I would try the job in a month or so after I finish some other fires first.

I have no carving chisels but I do like to buy new tools. what chisels would I need? the thing that scares me most is it is oak And I figure it probaly ain't the easiest to carve.

If anyone else wants the job let me know if not please chime in with some help

thanks,
Bob

[Mike Henderson]

The carving shouldn't be too tough, even in oak. Do a tracing of the whole piece and turn it over to transfer it to the other piece. The thing that makes it easy is that there are no sharp edges so you can sand it after you carve it. The very best would be to find someone who could help you with the carving if you've never done any. That person could also give you some advice on the tools to buy. Carving is one of those things where you never have all the tools you need.:)

The problem I see is how to attach the wood to the sawed off section and make it look decent. I guess you can attach it with dowels or a spline. Luckly, he's going to refinish it so you won't have the problem of matching the finish and color. Sand the back to see the color of the natural wood and try to match it when you patch it.

Good luck!

Mike

[added note] To cut back the space between the relief parts, use a small router, like a laminate trimmer before you start any carving. That will give you a fairly flat ground. Then carve the shape of the relief.

[Jim Thiel]

The problem I see is how to attach the wood to the sawed off section and make it look decent. I guess you can attach it with dowels or a spline.

Do you think it would need mechanical re-enforcement?

It looks like a small piece, I don't think I'd fuss that much. Trim that cut square with a pattern bit and just glue it up.

Jim


BTW, I just noticed what time you guys were posting. This project will look much easier after a nap.

[Robert Rozaieski]

Grain direction and pattern may be a little difficult to match up as you have a stile and rail meeting right through the middle of the carving. The glue line of the long grain glue up of the rail should be barely visible, however, the end grain to end grain glue up of the stile will be more difficult to hide.

If it were me I would want to replace the entire stile, glue a patch piece onto the top of the rail, reassemble and then carve. It may be more of a fix then the client wants though so I would discuss with them first. Is there any way you can disassemble the door and replace the entire stile? If it is old enough to be assembled with hide glue, some steam should be able to get the joint apart. If it's yellow glue it will be more challenging to do this.

[Don Bullock]

Both Mike and Robert have great points,

Yes, I think that some kind of mechanical re-enforcement is necessary, especially since on part you're glueing end grain.

Mike's ideas on the carving are good. This type of carving is not too difficult as the piece doesn't have a great deal of detail. It would be a good pattern to learn on if you're not rushed for time. I wouldn't advise taking it on as a project if you're trying to make any money on the deal.

If the doors aren't curved, and this is the only carved area on the stile and rail, (hard to tell from the photograph) I'd approach this task much differently. Instead of trying to replace and pacth the piece that is cut off I'd replace both the stile and rail. While that would require much more material, I actually think that it would require less work. the furniture piece would look a whole lot better than it would by just trying to match up the grain. To me a patch like that will never look right on a piece that is stained and finished. The line between the patch and the rest of the door would show up no matter how well you matched the grain, especially on the stile. With painted furniture patches like this are much easier to hide.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Bob, if you are close to Philly you could contact Alan Turner at Philadelphia Furniture factory (or is that studio). There is a lady who comes to his shop to do architectural carving classes. If you can get hold of her I am sure she will set you on the right path. Alan himself is quite good with carving, but he tends to be very busy.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Bob, I also live in DuBois, although my carving skills are limited to chip carving. I do have a pretty good compliment of carving tools and rasps.


Maybe between the two of us we could come up with a plan to resurrect the door. You can private message me to discuss further.

[Bob Hallowell]

Thanks all, I think I will atemp it in a month or so I Will order som chisels and try my hand.

Bob

[Ed Costello]

Start fresh and replace the stile and rail if not it will always look like a patch. I also think that this is white oak. If you use red oak and the client is not experienced in refinishing he will have a hard time with a color match. I usually try to start with stock that came from a piece of furniture from the same era that was beyond repair. It makes the task of color matching much easier. I use Behlen Solar Lux to match color. You may want to suggest it, IMHO it is a must if you use new stock. I put one coat on the whole piece and then build multiple coats on the new wood. Toning laquers help also, but I am not a fan of laquer on a piece like this. Hope this helps.

Good luck!!! If you don't have to make alot of dough on the project and you have the time to spend, it will be a very rewarding project when you are done

[Jim Becker]

One thing that could ease the carving is to use a plunge router to remove a lot of the waste so you can concentrate your hand-work on just the design. I'd suggest that you do that on a board before you cut the outside edge so you have a larger workpiece to make for easier handling. The critical edge will be where you match the grain pattern and direction where it needs to meet the existing door. Do that first before you do any other work.

[Bob Hallowell]

Thanks Guys, I am going to start off trying to patch with 2 peices, if it doesn't look right I will do new rail and stile. Plus I think I will use the router idea.

Don, I don't need to make much money. I told him I would do it for the cost of a couple good carving chisels.

Bob