How would you finish this shop area?

[Dan Barber]

I hope this is the right forum for this question, I'm a bit confused as to which posts go where - this building will eventually have power tools in it, so I think it quallifies ;)

The picture below is a shot of the inside of my newly acquired shop. We have lived here for three months, but the previous owner of the property just got the last of his property out of the 30 x 40 shop building. The three month period was agreed to by the way.

The floor is wet because of a water line break, but that's another story. I want to finish the inside of this building in a way that will make it reasonably easy to keep clean and not cost a fortune to accomplish.

The building construction is typical pole barn, posts on about 5 foot centers, horizontal 2 x 4's on the outside of the posts with metal siding and roof attached to that. It has 2-3" thick fiberglass insulation fastened to the inside of the 2 x4's.

I'd like to install a ceiling, but the trusses are on 8' centers and I'd need a lot of additional support to accommodate drywall or wood.

My thoughts are leaning toward using the same metal siding as used on the outside of the building, just installing it on the inside. I would install 1 x 4's horizontally on the inside of the posts after adding more insulation to the walls. I'm also considering the metal siding/roofing for a ceiling installed on the underside of the trusses - white in color for better lighting of course.

I'm intending to air condition and heat this area if that makes any difference to your opinions.

Any thoughts as to the practicalness of this approach. All suggestions welcomed.

Dan

[Jim Becker]

Dan, I don't think I'd use metal siding on the inside for a number of reasons including heat transfer and the "attachability factor" for things like cabinets and the like. OSB, Plywood, T1-11 or similar would be my choice. I'd even choose drywall over the metal! Be sure to make note of and be consistant with your horizontal members so that they are easy to located when you do need to hang something securely. All of this is IMHO, of course!

[Jason Roehl]

I think the metal would be fine for the ceiling, but attach it as a cathedral ceiling. That might make it a little more expensive to heat/cool, but would be by far the easiest. It would also allow you to flip long lumber without worrying about putting a dent or hole in your ceiling. As for the walls, I'd just go with 23/32" OSB painted flat white for good light diffusion and easy touch-up (but not the easiest to clean--that's what DCs are for). Using battens and extra insulation on the walls isn't a bad idea. Go for a radiant tube heater then.

Just my $.02

[Ken Garlock]

HI Dan. A 30x40 shop, nice canvas to start with. :cool:

First off, you are drastically short of insulation :eek: Two to three inches will only give you an R6 to R9, which isn't much. If you don't want to replace the existing insulation, a noticeable cost, consider covering the inside with polystyrene sheets to get additional insulation. Then I would go with either wall board(sheet rock, whatever) or plywood. You do not want to cram another layer of insulating bats in on top of what you have. Insulation needs to expand in the area it occupies in order to trap air in a dead-air space.

I almost forgot, put in a ceiling ASAP and put about 12 to 15 inches of blown-in fiberglass in the new attic space. Make sure you have good air flow through the attic, especially in the winter to keep the insulation dry. Damp insulation is next to no insulation. Also, check for and fix air leaks around all doors and windows, overhead doors in particular.

Eventually you will want to paint the floor. Take a look at the Sherwin Williams "Tile Clad" 2-part epoxy floor paint. It costs about $80 for two one gallon cans which when mixed 1 to 1 gives your 2 gallons of paint. That puts it back in the arena of good quality paint ($40/gal.) I have it in a 3 car garage, a 2 car garage, and my shop. It is GOOD paint.

Consider your electrical system before covering the walls. In a shop that large, I would not settle for less than a 200 amp panel and its own electric meter. I would also put 20amp/240volt outlets every 8 feet around the shop walls. Also, make a plan of your shop on paper and determine where you will need 30 amp outlets. It is easy to wire the building before paneling the walls. :)

Since you want year-round air conditioning, consider installing a standard horizontal-flow furnace and A/C in the new attic you have created.

Anyway, these are my thoughs, and remember they are worth what you paid for them :D

[Ron Jones near Indy]

Dan,
My old school has a sprayed on insulation applyed to the roof of the gym. It also serves as the finished ceiling. I assume this type of installation is still done. It seems to be pretty efficient as far as being an insulator. This building opened in the fall of 1975 and the only roofing problem has been due to a very large FLAT roof and plugged drains. It might be worth investigation.
Ron

[Matt Meiser]

I am a few weeks into finishing a similar building. I used OSB on the walls over 2x4's attached between the poles and 6" fiberglass insulation. All of the OSB was primed, then painted an eggshell finish white. I am going to use white steel on ceiling and then blow in insulation above after finishing wiring and duct work. The steel was delivered today, so no experience on how it will sound. My ceilings are 12', so I won't have to worry about damage from swinging a board as much as if the ceiling was lower.

For heat, I am using a propane fired Hot Dawg type heater (not by Modine, but similar design) which I also just got today. Air conditioning will be 1 or more window units.

[Ken Salisbury]

Dan -- you better get cranking on that project - So I can come up and lounge around in it and have a cold one. :D

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

The steel was delivered today, so no experience on how it will sound....

I would've never thought about the 'sound' of a metal ceiling, but it seems like a practical and easy-to-keep-clean solution to me. Please make mention of any sound problems when you get it all put up and turn on some screaming equipment in there...

KC

[Dan Barber]

Dan -- you better get cranking on that project - So I can come up and lounge around in it and have a cold one. :D

Ken,

I still have some work to do on the house, so that of course will get first priority. I'll try to sneak some shop improvement time in but that will likely take a while. I don't think you'll find a lounge chair in there like Mr. Hatfield's any time soon :rolleyes:

There is the following to do:


New Electrical Service
Heating and Air Conditioning
Cyclone and Piping
Lighting
Wiring
Compressed Air Piping
Interior Finish
New Entrance Door
Benches
Lumber Storage


Man I wish I hadn't made a list - looks like a lot to do :(

Maybe I should buy the materials and then have a WC BBQ with the condition that if you work - you get fed :D

Any volunteers?


I am going to use white steel on ceiling and then blow in insulation above after finishing wiring and duct work. The steel was delivered today, so no experience on how it will sound.

Matt,

I'd suspect that the blown in insulation will dampen the "echo" effect of the metal ceiling, but the noise issue is one I had not considered and certainly is more of an issue with steel than wood or drywall - keep us posted on the outcome.

Dan

Thanks for the input everyone

[Ken Salisbury]

Ken,

I still have some work to do on the house, so that of course will get first priority.

Maybe I should buy the materials and then have a WC BBQ with the condition that if you work - you get fed :D

Any volunteers?


You bet buddy. First volunteer right here.

BBQ sounds like a great idea - just let me know what tools I need to bring

[Dick Parr]

Second volunteer.

[John Preston]

I'm there.

I like working more than standing around anyway.

That's what comes from a desk job.

[Wes Bischel]

Just a few thoughts on the ceiling. (Gee, something I actually know about! :eek: )
There are a number of off the shelf options available for you as well as the ones mentioned.

Acoustical ceiling - 2x4 fiberglass panels 3" thick
- insulation value, and can be backloaded some with additional insulation.
- 100 percent plenum access
- good NRC (noise reduction)

Drywall installed on a drywall grid system.
- durability and low cost of drywall / cheap easy snap together framing
- can be backloaded with insulation
- plenum access only where "access" panels are placed
- poor NRC, but good STC (sound transmision to the next space - if applicable)
(OSB or similar material can be substituted for drywall)

The drywall grid system installs just like an acoustical ceiling grid, but has a wider knurled face to accept the screws to mount the drywall. It is used in commercial construction all the time as a cost and time saver over stud and track - and would work well in your situation falt or vaulted. The drywall, can be backload with insulation, and if the grid is used it is easy to strategically place access panels and or "pods" of acoustical panels for some noise reduction and access to the plenum. (go to Armstrong's website and look under the Technical support / CAD drawings - drywall grid system and or vaulted ceiling are good reference points)

If you go the metal siding route, it will still need some framing - maybe not as much as the drywall. And consider if backloaded with insulation additional framing is a must. As far as noise, it will be much more "reflective" than drywall which means it is going to bounce more noise back at you. Adding insulation will help a little, but expect a sharper sounding space.

Also, if the space is not conditioned year round, do not use mineral fiber ceiling panels. They will cup or sag with the large swings in humidity.

If I was going to do the space, I would used drywall on drywall grid. This gives me a durable surface (and cheap) that I can use the same structure to insulate. Then if necessary, make vertical sound baffles if the machines were too noisy.

Just a few options for consideration. It looks like it will be a nice space when finished.
Wes

[EliotMason]

My $.02... I'd be worried about using metal indoors. Seems to be variations in temperature and humidity might encourage condensation, dripping, etc. Last thing anyone needs is water in the shop.

From a fire proofing perspective, steel is good. Sheetrock gives fire proofing, sound absorption and, in white, provides a lite interior.

It seems kinda weird to worry about fireproofing the shop building given that there are lots of combustibles we all keep in our wood shop. But if a wiring fault, a oiled rag, etc goes it needn't bring the whole shop and all that was in it down.

I recall that over at WoodCentral one of the moderators/hosts lost his shop and all its contents to an electrical short. So yeah, make sure that wiring is good too!

Eliot Mason