15" Wide Belts----who makes 'em, who's got 'em

[Jameel Abraham]

Okay, I've gone from the 16-32 Performax to the 22-44, to the 25" Double Drum. Now I'm seriously looking at 15" open end belt sanders. Sheesh, the more I think about using a drum, the more I don't want it. (I've used a drum, and do not like them!--burning, gumming up, ripples--just not the results I'm looking for)

So I know about the Sunhill, Grizzly and Northstate. So far the Northstate seems like it has the best features. Infeed and outfeed tables, wider platen (2" vs. 5/8" for the Grizzly). But its also $1k more! A month ago I was planning on spending around $1k, now I'm up to a minimum of $3k! I will be using this for professional use, not so much for huge production quantities, but more for professional quality.

So what are the REAL features that set these different brands apart?

[Rick Lizek]

I've been in the industry over 30 years and still think the stroke sander is one of the best kept secrets out there. Cheap and very versatile. In one shop we a had widebelt and still had 3 storke sanders. I don't think most people really have a clue about them and how good they are. You can wider pieces. Very good with veneers. I wish folks would tell more what they make. Sometimes a widebelt makes more sense but for most people with just general sanding needs the stroke sander is a viable option. The idea is to do a better job on glue ups.

[Bernhard Lampert]

I Have the 15" Northstate from Leneave Supply in Charlotte.
I have not used it heavily, but is does work well. The Northstate is identical to the Powermatic...except it is cheaper. Other than some adjustment on the belt tracking, it worked fine right out of the box.
Hopefully, John Renzetti sees this post, he also has one and had it for some time. Basically, I bought the sander based on feedback I received from the FOG Group on Yahoo (Renzetti et al).

BUT for fine finish sanding or larger panels or veneered surfaces, I'll second Rick's opinion: Can't beat a stroke sander! It is relatively inexpensive (plenty of good used ones around) and very versatile.

Cheers,
Bernhard

[Shiraz Balolia]

So I know about the Sunhill, Grizzly and Northstate. So far the Northstate seems like it has the best features. Infeed and outfeed tables, wider platen (2" vs. 5/8" for the Grizzly). But its also $1k more!


I don't know what you are referring to when you say the platen size is only 5/8", our specs on the web site show 1 3/4". It is actually 45mm and I suspect the Northstate is the same (have them measure the metal part and not with the little pad around it).

http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/specsheets/g9983_ds.pdf

[Bernhard Lampert]

Amazon has the PowerMatic (same as the Northstate) on sale for $2,700 to 2,800 for 3-phase or single phase. That's a hell of a deal! About $800 less than what I paid for the Northstate about 7 month ago!
Here is your chance of getting a deal!

Cheers
Bernhard

[Bruce Page]

I just looked. All I saw were 3ph
You're right though, that is a great price.

[Jameel Abraham]

I don't know what you are referring to when you say the platen size is only 5/8", our specs on the web site show 1 3/4". It is actually 45mm and I suspect the Northstate is the same (have them measure the metal part and not with the little pad around it).

http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/specsheets/g9983_ds.pdf

Shiraz, thanks for the clarification. I guess I should have looked at the specs closer before posting. I guess the guy who told me that was wrong indeed.

[Eddie Darby]

Sheesh, the more I think about using a drum, the more I don't want it. (I've used a drum, and do not like them!--burning, gumming up, ripples--just not the results I'm looking for)


Have you seen this drum sander? It's not like the others that cause burning.

http://www.stockroomsupply.com/V_Drum_Sander.php


http://www.theonlinewoodshow.com/show/company.php?number=20102&cat=1

For professional use they recommend the bigger drum at 4" in diameter, which requires a larger H.P. motor.

No Burning, no dust problem to speak of, and quick easy changes of sandpaper. If you get the extra long 30" sanding drum, you can run 2 different grits of sandpaper 15" long on the same drum!! Now no wasting of time changing sandpaper grits. I've seen this unit in a demo, remove varnish from a door, and not cook the wood or even gum-up the sandpaper!

Cost is way less than the hyped-up steroid induce over priced wood cookers.

[Jameel Abraham]

How does this machine even remotely compare to a drum sander or wide belt? It's like comparing a hand-held power planer to a thickness planer. Am I missing something here Eddie?

[frank shic]

eddie, have you built one of those sanders yet? it looks very interesting! thanks for providing the link. i've never seen one of those before.

[Reg Mitchell]

if you look around on other sites and talk to other woodworkers you can get some good deals on wide belt sanders. I just got a 24" for $3000. Its an older one but works great
Reg

[Eddie Darby]

Did you watch the videos? They should answer any questions that you have.

I have the 18" x 2" drum kit, so I only need a small H.P. motor to run it. I have a drill chuck mounted on the end of my unit so I can run a flex shaft off of it, to reach into tight places. The only thing that this system lacks right now is a power feeder system, but I hear that they are working on that.

No Burning, No dust problem, No gumming up of the sandpaper, even when sanding a varnished surface. Ever have to strip a finished door? I hate the solvents that you have to use. No more with this machine. Hit a hidden nail, and the thing just keeps on going. Try that with any other machine and your drum is kapuut!

The hook and loop Velcro sandpaper floats off the polycarbonate drum when the machine is running, due to centrifugal forces. That's why there is no burning or dust problem to speak of. No other system does this.

The key is to set the unit up so that the drum, when the machine is OFF, is just *below* the table top surface, and then when you turn it ON the spinning creates an air pocket under the sandpaper that allows the unit to run cool, and it will now be just *above* the table top surface. The polycarbonate drum runs static free, so the dust just flies off the drum and into the dust bin below, instead of everywhere else. Depth of cut is done by changing the grit of sandpaper used. Heavy grit equals more material removed.

Some people make the mistake of setting the unit up so that the sandpaper is *above* the table top surface when the unit is OFF, and then they can get divots in the wood being sanded if they stop pushing it, but if you set it up right, you can stop halfway through a job, answer the phone or whatever and pickup right where you left off and no divots.

If you build the 30" x 4" drum then you can sand to the middle of 60" pieces of wood. Put 2 or 3 grits on the same drum and you have a very versatile machine, that does the work of three machines.

The drawbacks.....you have to make the cabinet yourself and find a motor for it, but since the kit sells for a fraction of the price of the big boys, I should think that these drawbacks wouldn't stop anyone. Oh yeah, it won't get you a nice cold drink at the end of the day either. :D

Ask Paul Moore from Stockroomsupply if he has sold any of these units for big production work....you will be surprised at how many. I am sure he can tell you about the cost of running this machine vs. the others. It does everything that these other machine do, only way better, and cheaper, with none of the things that you hate about sanding and listed in your post.

The 2" drum lines are aimed at the hobbiest and small shops, while the 4" drum lines are aimed more for production work.

Just trying to point out something that you have not considered as a choice. Try a search for V-drum sander here and on the web.

[Rick Lizek]

How about telling more about what kind of sanding you do for the most part. Estimated future use. One man shop. Employees, skilled or unskilled?? Long thin stuff? Panels? Face frames? I find it better to say what you are trying to do instead of what you want because maybe there are other tools out there you don't know about. I spent 30 years in the industry with double end tenoners, sanders you couldn't even imagine from profile sanders, drawer sanders, double belt through feed stroke sanders and more. I'm not a big fan of drum sanders at all. I still think the stroke sander is one of the best kept secrets out there. I've put them in metal shops as they one of the most versatile machines out there and the cheapest machines on the market for what they are. Minimax, Grizzly and most of the companies sell them but most people don't have a clue about them. If you look at old FWW they were talked about a bit but unless you were in industry you would never learn the real nature of this machine.

[Bernhard Lampert]

I just looked. All I saw were 3ph
You're right though, that is a great price.

OOps, you are correct. It was just different 3-phase voltages.
Bernhard

[frank shic]

eddie, do you have any recommended sources for the motor? this is certainly one of the most economical alternatives that i've ever seen! guys, what's with the hostility? the man introduces us to a completely NEW product that most people have never seen and he gets beaten up for it! i've seen previous threads about building your own cyclone that were received without nearly as much commotion and this looks like it's a lot easier to put together.

[Mike Cutler]

I still think the stroke sander is one of the best kept secrets out there. I've put them in metal shops as they one of the most versatile machines out there and the cheapest machines on the market for what they are. Minimax, Grizzly and most of the companies sell them but most people don't have a clue about them. If you look at old FWW they were talked about a bit but unless you were in industry you would never learn the real nature of this machine.

Rick

I agree the stroke sander is a very underutilized machine, but "cheap" didn't seem to be my experience when looking for one.
The smaller models can be relatively economical, but the cost of one big enough to sand an exterior door, or large tabletop was pretty expensive, I looked on eBay, Craigslist, OWWM, and new.
Even though I eventually purchased a drum sander, I'd still consider a stroke sander if the price was comparable to a dual drum sander and could handle up to an 8' length of material. If you know of a source, I'd appreciate the info.

Mike

[Jameel Abraham]

I'll be gang sanding 2" wide boards, plus thicknessing resawn veneer, basic sanding like tabletops, panels etc. Also accurately thicknessing tonewood for musical instruments, sanding veneer. I need to be sanding to .5mm thick with absolute accuracy. I've done this on a wide belt and it works great. I think the stockroom sander is very interesting (I did know about it before this post), I would seriously consider it. However, two huge drawbacks with it. No feed belt (important to me for saving time and labor) and accurate thicknessing seems impossible. I mean if I have to sand a soundboard to 1.5mm thick evenly all over, how can this be done accurately and easily with the Stockroom sander?

[Eddie Darby]

eddie, do you have any recommended sources for the motor?
Stockroomsupply sell motors and you can pick them up cheap at garage sales or flea markets. An old furnace motor will also do.

[Eddie Darby]

http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/powertools/articles_528.shtml

http://www.rockslide.org/drum%20sander.html

Whatever you decide to do, I would take a close look at the specs. Most machines, Performax comes to mind, will not thickness sand material that is thinner than 1/32" or 0.8 mm thick.