My Tool Statement

[Per Swenson]

Hello All,

Lately and forever I have been reading these threads on

imported tools, why old iron?, whats wrong with...pick your brand etc.

Uber brand loyalty debates, the whole conundrum, with opinions, some

so strong you wonder if the poster has that brand inked next to the

Harley Davidson tat and Mom.

All of this is OK. Fun even. But the reality of the situation is

they are only tools. A means to get the job done.

Even though our road to completion is wonderful if its paved with gold

and we are driving the new Porsche, the fact is our arrival is not a place

but a thing. A finished product.

And Frankly, you can make that finished product with any tool at your

disposal, harbor freight or minimax.

So lets not lose sight of the concept that tools are merely a extension of

your mind and body and the real tool improvements are upstairs in the

command center.

All tools are Good.


Per

[Karl Laustrup]

Thanks Per.

Excellent observation. I think we lose track of that and need a wake up call from time to time.

A tool can do nothing on its own. It must have someone with the skill and knowledge to manipulate it to fashion what is in the mind's eye.

Karl

[Glenn Clabo]

All tools are Good.
Per

And some operators aren't.

I really have a real problem with the in order to be a good woodworker...you need expensive tools. It drives me crazy when people say...wow that's really nice...you must have some expensive tools. My reply goes something like this...How would you feel if I said...wow that was a really nice dinner...you must have some expensive pots and pans.

Of course...Don't get me wrong...I love tools (cooking included) but I'm somewhat different than many or maybe most. I was taught by men who using mostly hand tools did some awesome work. I also know what "expensive" tools are for...time is money.

Great post Per...goes good with Sunday morning coffee. Now I have to go to the shop and rearrange for some new tools.

[Doug Shepard]

...
whats wrong with...pick your brand etc.
...


For me it comes down to looks. If the color and texture aren't right, it's not up for consideration. I'm currently working on a shop-wall sized portrait of Tage Frid all done with different color tools using pointilism techniques.:D

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
As usual - great sage advice can always be found whenever Per posts.

While I firmly believe in the adages of buying the best you can afford, and the most epxensive tool is the cheap one that needs to be replaced,,,,

I'm reminded that the world's record largemouth bass was caught by a kid with a cheap rod/reel using a worm for bait...

I thought about that - and put my desire for a $25,000.00 Ranger back in the "wished for items" catagory ;)

[Ron Hedrick]

Thank you Per. It doesn't matter how many or how expensive my tools are. Only when I have my PJs on am I as good as Sam Maloof.
I haven't posted or done a reply for a while. Mainly because of the fact that I am a pure novice. I'm still trying to learn how to use the tools that I have. (I have a small Delta Bench Joiner that is dealing me fits. But, that is another story.) I have noticed that there are those times that you are almost looked down upon If:
You don't have a Unisaw/Sawstop (take your pick).
You don't have the biggest baddest bandsaw.
Or name whatever tool power or hand that you want to fill in the blank with.
I'm afraid to show any of my projects, because you will probably never see my work shown in Fine WoodWorking Magazine. I guess you could put my work in the category of "Primitive Artwork". But you know, when I create a joint that comes together beautifully or when someone looks at something that I have made and they actually can recognize what it is, man do I feel good.
I guess what I am trying to say is don't be a tool snob, and don't rain on someone elses parade. Encourage and educate. Sorry for the rant.

[Art Mann]

Great comments Per. There are woodworkers and there are tool collectors. Sometimes they are the same person -- but often not. Having studied the web pages of many a woodworker on this board and a couple of others, I have observed that there is little correlation between the quality and quantity of their work and the price and sophistication of their tools. Great tools are a real pleasure to work with, but they do not turn a poor craftsman into a good one. OTOH, it is amazing what one of my woodworking friends can do with equipment I wouldn't bring home if it were free. I am envious of his talent.

[Terry Hatfield]

Well said Per!!!!!

I also agree with Glen. Not long ago I had a guy that I have known for quite a long time come to my shop and home for the first time. He checked out the furniture and such that I had made and then we went out to the shop. His first comment was that anybody could build that stuff if they just had a shop and tools like mine. It made me a bit upset. I tried to explain that if one didn't know how to use the tools or have any knowledege of the wood then it would not be possible. He never got it.

t

[Rob Will]

A Yugo or a Neon can get you back and forth to work just as well as a classic Porche..........but if you have the opportunity, restoring a classic Porsche or driving it through the mountains might actually be an uplifting experience.

I suppose I subscribe to a different philosophy on this one. To me, the journey is just as important, perhaps more important than the destination. If the only objective is to acquire a piece of furniture why do we even bother building it? Furniture stores sell this stuff all the time. Why do some go to the woods, cut down a tree and then take years to dry the wood when you can order 4S lumber on the internet?

If you're doing something to make money, you had better buy only those tools that help you make money. On the other hand if your shop is a get-away and a place where you like to display and use classic tools, buy whatever you can afford and makes you feel good.

My old Craftsman 12" bandsaw still runs just fine. It once belonged to my best friend Jim. He had a few decades on me and had seen a lot more of the world. Jim let me use his Craftsman tools but he was always telling me about much heavier "industrial" tools. We used to drink iced tea and dream about building a WW shop here on my farm.

It took about 20 years to get it done. Jim's 12" Craftman bandsaw now occupies a corner of my new shop. I use it from time to time...... but don't you know there's somebody smiling over my shoulder when I fire up the Moak 36. That makes me feel good.

Rob

[Curt Harms]

How does that position coexist with "My__________ is (bigger, better, more macho, more expensive) than your __________?:eek:



:)



Curt

P.S. Your 're absolutely correct.

[John Lucas]

Per,
I am probably most guilty. In that I get tools to review, I handle some pretty nice tools. Yesterday, though, I was doing the step-by-step of a new sharpener and went and dragged off the shelf every old and bad chisel and plane I had there. I buy them at yard sales for fun and for this purpose. I took a really ugly plane and went through the entire step-by-step of the new sharpener and the plane came alive. I tried it on a badly warped piece of walnut and it was a wonderful experience....long curls, easy to use. And then I read your words, Per, and I had to say "right on Per, per,usual."

[Joe Unni]

Per,

I just have to laugh every time you post with your no-nonsense wisdom. It reminds me of a local talk radio show whos title is "The Natural Truth". Its premise is discussion based around truths that shouldn't really need discussion. But results in meaningful talk. Anyways, thank you.


..But you know, when I create a joint that comes together beautifully...

That feels really good especially if its one you've never made before!!


And some operators aren't.

Yup!!


While still attempting to earn a living I try to pay heed to a very successful business mans advice - keep overhead low!! I only wish I had half the tools many have. Now I won't struggle with tools as that is wasting time, I buy as I need and even then if its a good value I'll get it. Just yesterday while thinking through how I'm going to sand 6 dining chairs in a timely manner I went out an bought the Rigid spindle sander (stealth gloat). I barely can afford the $200 it cost me, but it's going to save me a bunch of time. The client will be none the wiser. Ultimately they're happiness will make me happy...as will their final check :D.

I guess in the end while it's fun to covet tools, building stuff is what gets me going.

Great post Per!

-joe

[Chris Barton]

In my most recent post regarding this "location of origin" kind of debate I asserted the same thing, that the outcomes are what are the most important but, I didn't mean just the finished product. I, like Rob, believe that the experience of getting to the outcome is as important, if not more so, than the finished piece. I've made pieces with relatively primitive tools that looked great but, were painful to make because the tools made the process aversive. Like Rob said, a trap steamer will get you to China but, you would probably rather forget the trip rather than savor it later. Think of all the great furniture pieces that have been made using a Shopsmith. I'm thinking they might have been more fun with a Knapp combo machine instead...

[Jason Roehl]

Great post, Per.

A retired friend of mine who used to live next door had some of the crappiest Crapsman tools I'd ever seen. Yet he still made some nice things, even some small items that required a high level of precision. Having looked at the slop and play on some of his tools, you wouldn't have thought that what he produced was even remotely possible.

I think it boils down to mindset. If you have cheap tools and hate using them because of their faults, chances are you'll find fault with the expensive stuff as well. If you recognize the limitations of cheap tools and learn to work around/with them, you'll enjoy what you do no matter the tools.

And, if you go deep into debt to buy expensive (this is RELATIVE) tools, you'll be working your tail off to pay for them instead of using them, so that's kind of pointless, too.

Now, if you're making money off your tools and using them day in day out for such, then things are different. A solidly built tool that you don't have to constantly fix is pretty important.

[Don Bullock]

As usual Per has blessed our forum with some excellent wisdom from a true craftsman. I am often in awe of his work as well of his talent and will never be able to match anything he creates.

I’m sure for someone like Per, who produces beautiful, handsome work from wood, that the end product is the goal. If I were to hire someone to do that kind of work in my home he’d certainly be the person I’d hire.

I, however, am involved in woodworking for a different reason. I enjoy working the wood. True, I should concentrate more on hand tools than I do if this is what I really like to do. That’s starting to happen, but it will take a while. In the mean time I’m purchasing tools that will give me more of the pleasure that I desire while working the wood.

I fully agree that the brand or color of the tool doesn’t matter. Long ago I found that the name on the tool often meant nothing in regard to quality of the pleasure I received from using it, not did it work better because of a particular name. Do I have some name brand tools? Sure, but I’m not partial to one particular brand. You might say I have a hodgepodge of brands or a rainbow of colors. Are all of them fantastic, high quality tools? Not even close! Like most here, there is a limit to my tool budget. I buy what I need at a reasonable price and search for sales whenever possible.

The bottom line for me is the enjoyment of my hobby. Ending up with a beautiful piece of furniture or other woodworking product is the culmination of that enjoyment. I love wood – the grain pattern, finish, feel, etc. – I could get al that by going to the store and buying it or having a craftsman like Per or Frank Klaus make it for me. While I have bought furniture and, at times, even hired someone else to build something for me, I didn’t get the joy of making it nor the pride that it was my work.

[Jim Becker]

I really have a real problem with the in order to be a good woodworker...you need expensive tools..

Yes, this is a myth that continues no matter what occupation or avocation one might talk about...within reason, of course. Surgery, um...comes to mind... :D

As Per so eloquently stated, tools are, well...just tools. Assuming that they are at least well-adjusted and the cutting edges (if applicable) are sharp, the cost of the item should be immaterial. It's how you employ them that counts.

But we also have to be realistic about that "adjustment" thing. We have all encountered a tool or three that just plain would not either get into proper adjustment or stay there. That's a distraction and one of the things that makes it hard for newbies to learn and intermediate to experienced folks to do their best work. So it's not about "cost", but about design and quality.

Good tools can be had for a reasonable investment. What makes me sad is that there is so much stuff out there on the market that is substandard in design and quality that folks pay good money for (often un-knowingly) and subsequently struggle with. Sometimes that even makes them give up on the activity. Sometimes it causes accidents.

One of the things that communities like SMC bring to the table is at least the opportunity to ask questions about a product before plunking down one's money. While we all need to take some of the responses with a "grain of salt"...we've all see the passion that sometimes clouds the necessary information...at least we can get a lot of feedback quickly that would have been impossible to obtain only a few years ago. Of course, many folks get stuck with things before they even find communities like SMC...but that's another issue altogether.


My bottom line is that I'd prefer to see positive/negative comments about features, functions, usability, adjustability, etc., rather than worries about what source has the item for $4.53 less at 1pm on the third Tuesday of the last month of the previous monsoon season...:o...certainly useful information if you are about to buy, but not important relative to evaluating the tool's/machine's value to the kind of work you want to do with it. And that applies to a $60 carving chisel or a $9,000 sliding table saw. They are just tools.

[Jim Becker]

How does that position coexist with "My__________ is (bigger, better, more macho, more expensive) than your __________?

Like Per said, it's how you use it...;) :p :D

[Phil Clark]

But you know, when I create a joint that comes together beautifully or when someone looks at something that I have made and they actually can recognize what it is, man do I feel good.
I guess what I am trying to say is don't be a tool snob, and don't rain on someone elses parade. Encourage and educate.

In our Guild we have taken Ron's sentiment seriously - the workshops we have done this year focus on newbies and intermediates using "starter" type tools. We hold them in a shop that is not full of the higher-end tools and machinery like mine because we want them to see that woodworking can be enjoyable without the $30,000 investment. Our first session in the program was about what we would buy as a newbie if we had $500 or $1,000 to spend. This has been a worthwhile adventure because we have been successful in nurturing these people rather than scaring them off.

Per thanks for starting this thread

[Rob Tolentino]

Sometimes we are just looking for some friendly advice on what tools other woodworkers are using...what brands they prefer...what's the best tool for that particular job...etc.

Sometimes we are just looking for some friendly advice so we can purchase within our budgets in our small modest shops...wonder what those with high end shops use...wonder about the features others like or dislike about certain tools...etc.

Sometimes we are just looking for some friendly advice so we can get the right tool and be happy with it...want some advice to we can complete our project...want to buy the tool that will last...etc.

I could go on, but I think you can understand what I'm saying. I just look forward to some friendly advice from fellow woodworkers. I like to take everything into account before I make a tool decision.

[Pat Germain]

There does seem to be a fine line between woodworking and tool collecting. From my perspective, I think it all comes down to budget. If a woodworker is doing well to afford just a few Craftsman tools, that's what he should go with. It will allow him to persue his hobby and, with practice, he can probably overcome most or all tool shortcomings. At the other end of the spectrum, I met a guy with an unlimited budget who decided to try woodworking. He filled his barn with European, industrial tools. His shop probably cost more than my entire house. For him, it was just a matter of writing a check, so why not?

If one can afford better tools, I'm all for buying better tools be they brand new, used or antique. For me, using a well-built, well-designed tool is a joy. Using a poorly manufactured tool designed to be the cheapest thing on the shelf is just an exercise in frustration.

I know this from experience. My first framing saw was a Skil. It literally burned up after very little use and trying to use it with a saw guide was impossible because the blade wasn't true to the shoe. My next framing saw was a Porter Cable. It was within my budget, as well as left-handed, and I have literally used it to cut railroad ties with no problem. Some guys might prefer a Festool saw, but that would have been beyond my budget.

I'm sure many people wonder what all the fuss is about tools, be they for woodworking, restoring a classic car, or scrapbooking. When thinking about this, I always consider one of the primary differences between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom is use of tools. It's very likely chimps in the wild are always searching for a better stick to pull ants out of the anthill, just as we are always searching for a better plain to make the perfect shavings. It is the persuit of tools which has brought civilization into being. To persue ever better tools is just being human. This certainly doesn't justify dogging someone just because he has inexpensive tools.

[Gary Keedwell]

Ah.....Sunday morning with a great cup of coffee and a great philosophical thread. Life is great, huh? Sometimes it is refreshing to wash the crass commercialism from our souls.. long enough to reflect on why we love this hobby in the first place.
Confession : I do love a great tool, whether it is hand or power. With that being said, I do this as a relaxing hobby, therefore, rushing through the necessary steps to just see results is not what it is all about for me.

Years ago, getting it done fast and throwing polyurethene on it and starting my new project was my routine. I guess that was the result of my advocation at the time....machinist. After a few years I dropped the hobby altogether. I just wasn't geting anything out of it.
It took FINISHING and a new appreciation of wood to get me back in the saddle again.
Also, and more importantly, I purchased a PC and discovered woodworking forums. Before, I had no one to share the joy of my hobby, because even though I worked with alot of guys, none were woodworkers.
To merrcifully end this rant, I want to thank all the creekers for the endless hours I spend with all of you, almost every day. There are alot of wonderful minds and characters on this lifeline!!!!:p
Gary K.

[Don Bullock]

...I could go on, but I think you can understand what I'm saying. I just look forward to some friendly advice from fellow woodworkers. I like to take everything into account before I make a tool decision.

You said it well too. Thanks.


...
As Per so eloquently stated, tools are, well...just tools. Assuming that they are at least well-adjusted and the cutting edges (if applicable) are sharp, the cost of the item should be immaterial. It's how you employ them that counts.

...
My bottom line is that I'd prefer to see positive/negative comments about features, functions, usability, adjustability, etc., rather than worries about what source has the item for $4.53 less at 1pm on the third Tuesday of the last month of the previous monsoon season...:o...certainly useful information if you are about to buy, but not important relative to evaluating the tool's/machine's value to the kind of work you want to do with it. And that applies to a $60 carving chisel or a $9,000 sliding table saw. They are just tools.

Jim, that's one of the main reasons I come here. The experience that people here have is priceless. No magazine or book could possibly reproduce what happens here on a daily basis. BTW -- Do keep those great price drops coming. Sometimes they help greatly.


...If one can afford better tools, I'm all for buying better tools be they brand new, used or antique. For me, using a well-built, well-designed tool is a joy. Using a poorly manufactured tool designed to be the cheapest thing on the shelf is just an exercise in frustration.

I know this from experience. My first framing saw was a Skil. It literally burned up after very little use and trying to use it with a saw guide was impossible because the blade wasn't true to the shoe...

For me it was one of their routers. What a piece of junk it was! The collett was housed in a cheap plastic piece that broke the first time I used it. In those days, early in my teaching career, that's all I could afford. I kept doing some woodworking after that happened, but loosing that tool sort of "did me in" for building the furniture I wanted to make. Soon after that I just gave up. Without the proper tools it just wasn't worth all the frustration.

I was contemplating starting woodworking again as something to do in my pending retirement and didn't know where to start. My passion for working with wood was still there after all those years. Fortunately my wife was and still is very supportive. She's the one who helped me rejuvenate my shop. Several summers ago, while we were off from teaching, she helped me clean out the garage and get all my tools that were still left organized. Thanks to the continued support from the LOML I've now accquired the tools necessary to get back to something I loved to do. That was a gigantic step. When I Googled for an answer to a question I was trying to solve, I ended up here. Wow, what a revelation! Due to the knowledge of those of you who post here and a few other forums, I have a lot more knowledge about which tools I could buy to do the job I wanted to do and my choices have been greatly enhanced by your help. Yes, the tools are important, but they would be nothing without the passion I have for making things out of wood and enjoying those things when I'm done.

[Reg Mitchell]

Hey Per,
Good words of simple wisdom. That is one reason I buy the older machines and give them a little care and a few bearings or a new part. They are relatively cheep, in most cases cheeper that a new one, and will last another 50-60 yrs to be passed on to another aspireing woodworker.
Besides they are much harder to steal and pawn.....:D
Reg

[Dave MacArthur]

A very enjoyable post by Per and good thread ;)

Per makes a good point that "the real tool improvements are upstairs in the command center". Also up there, and key to those of us who do woodworking as a hobby for the enjoyment it brings (but don't make our living that way) is all the pleasure of THINKING about woodworking, and the camaraderie that comes with discussing woodworking with other like-minded folks. Especially with those who have more experience, skills, or just plain talent. I find that I love reading these forums, and that a nice philosophical thread like this OR one debating some tool's quality and functionality are both equally engaging to me when I am getting thoughts from folks who have walked so much farther down this road.

It's easy to mistake motive in a "which tool" thread... I have not owned a bandsaw for the last 25 years myself, and have indeed made some passable finished products with any tool at my disposal, which ended up being a Skil hand held "saber saw" or hand saws when needed. Now I'm searching for a band saw, and want to spend my money wisely, so am extremely thankful to be able to ask experienced users their opinions to help me. I THINK I'm about to buy one, but even if I put it off for another 5 years and keep making do with my 1988 Skil saber saw (jigsaw), I absolutely will reap huge enjoyment while "researching" the decision. I am certain that I am upgrading my "command center" and most important tool by reading all the thoughts here, no matter what question is asked to provoke them ;)
Like Gary said, thanks to all of you for taking the time to share and make this such a nurturing place for woodworkers to learn both mindset as well as technical info.

[glenn bradley]

For me it comes down to looks. If the color and texture aren't right, it's not up for consideration. I'm currently working on a shop-wall sized portrait of Tage Frid all done with different color tools using pointilism techniques.:D

How about one out of clamps? We all have dozens of spares laying around, right?

On tools, I have the "where two curves intersect" view; there are things that I can do better thanks to a better tool making up for my personal short-comings. There are some things that no $3000 plane will help me do (that's due to my abilities you understand). I also sometimes surprise myself wht I can do with what's handy.

When I'm lacking the specific 'perfect' tool for a task I remember a saying that we've probably all heard; "I have done so much with so little for so long, I can now do anything with nothing".

[Mike Seals]

I'm not new to wood working, but I didn't dive off into it until a few years ago. Until then it was cars, everything from the mechanical to the paint. I asked my BIL (a then Dupont factory paint rep) once about paint guns. He said not to go and by the top dollar gun, suggested a mid level and learn. His line was he had been in body shops and seen guys lay down the best paint jobs with an old craftsman gun, where the guy down the street had all the top dollar stuff and couldn't avoid tons of mistakes.

It's all technique.

[Chuck Lenz]

It's nice to have good tools, but after all the years that I've been a woodworker and once tried to make a liveing from it I got to say why bother. I don't know of any other trade where you can have so much money rapped up in tools and time, and be so poorly treated by the general public, and even family and friends sometimes. Woodworking is dangerous and not good for your health either. In the last year or so my shop has almost come to a stand still, I lost alot of interest in it. I don't even get excited about doing anything for myself.

[Andrew Williams]

I don't know of any trade where you can have so much money rapped up in tools and time, and be so poorly treated by the general public


I know one...

[Don Morris]

It's what you do with what you got.

[Chuck Lenz]

Spill it Andrew.

[Fred Craven]

I was once a mighty fine (home) painter. I could, and can, paint better with a brush than most people can spray (think glossy front door). To accomplish that I have to use the best quality brush and paint. I can do a sufficient job with a average paint, and or brush, but it will never look nearly as good.

Without the best tools, I can't work my magic. But a novice painter would probably produce a horrid finish using my tools! So, there is a synergy of tool and tool user.

[Andrew Williams]

Spill it Andrew.

I did not want to seem evasive or anything, so sorry if it seemed that way. With many years of experience as a professional musician I have known many people who spend enormous amounts of time (maybe 12 years or more just for the initial training) and huge sums of money to be professional musicians. There are vast amounts of music in every part of life nowadays, and quite a bit of it is made by trained professionals (not rock stars) such as what you find in films, television, commercials, not to mention all of the samples of real players that have permeated the pop music world now (albeit in regurgitated electronic form).

I do not want to sound like sour grapes, since I am not unhappy at all, but it has been my experience that more often than not, musicians are looked upon with a distinct lack of respect in this culture. It is as if respect should only be given as a measure of percieved financial prowess, and not for level of personal achievement or artistry, as I believe it should be for an artisan such as a woodworker, or one who makes music. It is not unusual to practice for 30 hours a week with no compensation whatsoever, in addition to whatever paid work one might garner. This is a 7-day-a-week process. I believe it to be similar to the dedication that one sees on old-world artisanship.

What it boils down to is this: I personally feel that individually we must maintain some kind of dedication, even if there is no reward. If I was to wait for some reward from our society (which admittedly I am on the fringes at best) then I would be waiting forever. I think that this is a bad trait of our society and wish that it would change, and not just in respect to woodworkers or musicians. I however, do not expect this.

[Chuck Lenz]

I totally understand Andrew, and thankyou for explaining.

[Gary Keedwell]

It's nice to have good tools, but after all the years that I've been a woodworker and once tried to make a liveing from it I got to say why bother. I don't know of any other trade where you can have so much money rapped up in tools and time, and be so poorly treated by the general public, and even family and friends sometimes. Woodworking is dangerous and not good for your health either. In the last year or so my shop has almost come to a stand still, I lost alot of interest in it. I don't even get excited about doing anything for myself.
:rolleyes:
Gee Chuck, sounds to me like you need some kinda pick-me-up. I have had periods where I don't get up for it (woodworking) that sometimes last awhile, but eventually I pull out of it.
Keep your chin up...never know what's up around the bend.:)
Gary K.

[michael merlo]

that's beautiful - so beautiful i do not wish to add anything other than ....... that's beautiful man.

[Ben Grunow]

I have seen a lot of crappy work done with really fine tools and materials (half a walnut kitchen thrown in the dumpster after it was installed upside down, dropped, scribed wrong etc.) and I have seen a man install crown mouldings, coping and all with a circular saw and a home made jig.

As far as I'm concerned, its the craftsman holding the handle, not the name on the handle.

[J.R. Rutter]

Ever since I read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" 20 years ago, I've had a different outlook on quality. There are many aspects to quality. To use Per's original example of tools as a means to an end, I can think of these right off the top of my head:

Quality of:

raw materials

design

tools

process

finished product

Some of these affect the quality of the experience of building something. Some of them affect the quality of the finished product. Some, like design, affect both. Ideally, each one would have high quality.

To get back to tools, I agree that poor tools can produce high quality results, and that superior tools do not guarantee a high quality product.

But it is easier, more enjoyable, and more efficient to work with tools of appropriate quality - whether it is a hand plane or a CNC router. I've stuggled to overcome the limits of lousy (or inappropriate) tools enough to prefer to err on the side of quality.

I once bought a pair of light hiking boots that fell apart after only a few weeks use. Except for the shoelaces. Those laces were close to perfect, and were a joy to use. They held a knot, didn't fray, were just the right diameter, universal colors, etc. I must have used those laces in 2 or 3 pairs of shoes before they were too worn to keep. So even if the hike was the goal, the laces used along the way contributed a lot to the experience.

So it is with "good" tools, I think.

[Randal Stevenson]

I see the bickering all the time, including a topic that now violates this places tos.

I bought a BT3100 (sold at one time for $150 new, and has a riving knife), which a lot of people laugh at, but, my grandfathers generation, were neanders, who started making their own tools, after the war (WWII). Power drills were a fairly new item (I still have his 1/4" single speed non reversable), and I live in a house that was built with handsaws, and originally had two lights and one outlet (mine actually had more as it was the builders showplace), as the average on my block.

Those old 8" "benchtop (aka heavy)" saws that people say don't buy to use, I know at least a couple of people who do. And one of them builds planes and hot rods, in his machine shop, and does amazing things on a house he is restore/moding; so it ain't the tool. Another friend, showed me a couple of things he built, including a pool table, that I asked where he bought. He used one of those old (B&D?) kits, that a circular saw, bolted to a table to make it a table saw.

I've been using my guided saw system so much more, that the only reason I kept my tablesaw is the depth capacity. I have a table saw, miter saw, radial arm saw, etc, but really kinda see this as a more modern version of what my/our grandparents worked with. (sawbenchs, handsaws, etc) AND LOOK AT WHAT THEY BUILT!

one clarification I think should be made, in terminology.

A cheap tool is one that breaks quickly that makes people avoid and complain about that brand.
An inexpensive tool is one you buy to make your job quicker and easier. (time verses money and performance)
An expensive tool, tends to become a laundry holder. It sits in the shop and gets stuff piled on it, because you have to go to work to pay for it, then your family nags you because your spending so much time at work, that when you get off, they don't want you in the shop.

[Geoff Barry]

I would distinguish between threads and questions re quality of tools, and mindless brand wars. A skilled craftsman will be skilled no matter what tools they use, but for those of us who are amateurs, a good tool can make a difference.

My first "furniture-making" tools came from McGuckins tent sale - a biannual event here in Boulder. Now, McGuckins is one of the finest stores in the world, and has a lot of very high-end tools, but their tent sale consists of truckloads of stuff that is cheap and rather basic. I bought a refurb Skill bench saw, a refurb Skil jigsaw, and a few Jepson tools (15amp router and a biscuit cutter). Combined with a few hand tools, it all came to around $200. Well, I went about 50/50 on all of that. When I replaced the bench saw with a BT3100, my woodworking improved instantly :) The Jepson stuff has been fine -- fine, that is, once I ditched the fence on the biscuit cuttter, and once I confined that "motor with a collet" they called a router to a table. (As an aside, if anyone ever says, "but aren't all routers just a 'motor with a collet'", threaten to send them my Jepson . . . and it is a threat.)

My point would be this: A skilled professional probably can make the same furniture whether they use the stuff I began with, or a Festool Electric Swiss Army Knife. I cannot. So it's important to me to understand what I need - and what is offered by various tools. I wish, for example, I had understood the limitations of a 3.5 amp jigsaw before I tried to cut curves in 4/4 lyptus.

I do, however, agree that brand wars are pointless. When it was time for a planer, I looked for the cheapest Delta 22-580, DW735, or Rigid I could find. The winner the day I went planer-buying was a refurb Dewalt (thank you, toolking . . .), but I would have bought any of the three. I joke about the Skil and Jepson tools I began with, but the Jepson router has done yeomanlike service in my router table - nothing bogs it down. And after using a friend's SKil wormdrive saw when helping him build a shed, I'd buy one in an instant if I ever start doing more framing work.

It's not the color of the tool that matters -- it's the degree to which it does it's "thing" well. I'm looking for the least expensive tool that will allow me to be hindered by my own lack of skill, and for that, I find many of the tool threads helpful :)

[Mike Parzych]

I eventually got around to reading this topic. I say "eventually" because quite frankly I seldom read anything at Sawmill Creek anymore.

In the past few months this forum has become, in my opinion, a group of somewhat snobbish tool freaks who apparently don't do anything with their tools except adore and talk about them. Look at the last few pages of topics and I'll hazard a guess that about 90% of them concern tools.

Seldom do I see topics concerning wood, building techniques, or actual projects.

Is anyone actually doing anything with their tools?

My opinion.

[Rob Will]

I have never seen a "tool snob". My experience here at SMC has been a good one and I enjoy learning about everyone's favorite brand. It has been educational and helpful to me in setting up a shop of my own.

For right now, I have a very demanding day job with little time to work in the shop...... and frankly, I have a lot of skills to learn before I can build much of anything.

I long for the opportunity to make a piece of furniture for each of my kids. For now, I'm stuck with being proud of the tools I have "collected" so far.

Rob

[Richard Niemiec]

I do not want to sound like sour grapes, since I am not unhappy at all, but it has been my experience that more often than not, musicians are looked upon with a distinct lack of respect in this culture. It is as if respect should only be given as a measure of percieved financial prowess, and not for level of personal achievement or artistry, as I believe it should be for an artisan such as a woodworker, or one who makes music. It is not unusual to practice for 30 hours a week with no compensation whatsoever, in addition to whatever paid work one might garner. This is a 7-day-a-week process. I believe it to be similar to the dedication that one sees on old-world artisanship.


Andrew: I, for one, am constantly amazed by musicians and their ability to create magical art that speaks to the soul. And its not just the headliners, as some of them are indeed talented, no, blessed (Vince Gill, Aaron Neville, Clapton come to mind) but also the "band" behind them, and I find myself marveling more at the backup musicians without which the headliners would not be half as good. So, at least my me and my bride, you are appreciated more than you know. RN

[Rob Will]

Andrew: I, for one, am constantly amazed by musicians and their ability to create magical art that speaks to the soul. And its not just the headliners, as some of them are indeed talented, no, blessed (Vince Gill, Aaron Neville, Clapton come to mind) but also the "band" behind them, and I find myself marveling more at the backup musicians without which the headliners would not be half as good. So, at least my me and my bride, you are appreciated more than you know. RN

Some of the smartest people you will meet are musicians. Woodworkers are a close second. Just kidding guys LOL:D .
One of my favorite DVD's is Allison Krause + Union Station Live at the Palace Theatre. Go buy it, you'll see what I mean about musicians being all-around great people.

Rob

[David DeCristoforo]

Well, this is my first post on this forum and since I enjoy nothing more than playing "devil's advocate", I though this would be a good place to chime in. While I agree wholeheartedly with the OP, I would like to offer what Paul Harvey liked to call "The Other Side of the Story".

My brother in law was in my shop one day as I was routing some eased edges on a "quickie" project. After a bit, he said "Man you make that look so easy." "It is easy" says I. "Well whenever I try that I end up with splintered wood and burn marks that are almost impossible to clean up" he replied. When I inquired as to what he was using he told me that he had an "old craftsman router" and "just the regular bits". Further discussion led me to realize he was using a real cheapo router with (probably) completely worn out bronze bushings and HSS fixed pilot bits. so I handed him my router and a chunk of wood and asked him to try it so I could maybe give him some pointers as to how he was using the tool.

By the time he had buzzed off a couple of edges, he had a pretty confounded look on his face. No splintering...no burning, just nicely eased edges. So I explained to him that, in this case, the tool made all the difference. Good quality ball bearing machine with a good quality (and sharp!) carbide tipped bit with a ball bearing pilot. "See" I said, "You're a better craftsman that you realize." Made his day.

It's true that having good quality tools will not necessarily make you a better craftsman. But it sure is not going to make you a worse one either. My advice has always been to get the best tools you can afford. I would rather have one good quality router than three poor quality routers. There are few things more frustrating than having to struggle with inferior tools. This work is hard enough as it is.....

David DeCristoforo

[Greg Cole]

Per, I have to say, I like your delivery. I deal with many European vendors on the day job & I find they have a unique way of saying things.
Woodworking became a hobby after buying my first house and wanting to remodel "this n that". Ok, this n that led to wanting to build furnishing for remodelled rooms.. blah blah blah. I made all new cabinet & drawer faces for my kitchen using a TS (table top P.O.S. to boot) in a friends garage and me buying a PC router, 4 clamps and a couple scabbed together jigs. To this day I am still proud of them and couldn't do any better with the 2 car garage full of tools & more tools. Hand me that exact pile of stuff I used then in the here n now of today and you'd really have to twist both arms to get me to consider taking it on nevermind being excited about it as I was then.
I am part of the 30 something generation that has found discretional income at an "early age". I've found myself falling into the pitfall of I need this to do that and if I had that, then I HAVE TO HAVE this other thing. Put down the catalog (or get your butt off the computer!) and go DO SOMETHING with what ya have.
Did the Halls build Greene & Greene houses & furnishings with only one brand of tool? Granted I won't ever be on the same page nevermind planet as Darrell Peart.... but I do aspire to build a G & G knock off one of these years, and no my tool collection will be the one to tell job well done.

[Jim Heffner]

Well, they are just tools an extension of one's own hand so to speak.
It is the craftsman doing the work. A real craftsman can take junky tools
and turn out a master piece, but a flunkie with the best tools available
can and most likely only turn out junk! Jim Heffner