A Lesson From the Goblet Master

[Shane Whitlock]

Last Thursday I had the pleasure of watching the Goblet Master Curt Fuller do a demo on goblet. He showed us how to do a celtic knot and interlocking captured rings.

Here's my attempt after watching him. Elm goblet with Walnut knot. 6" tall by 1.5" wide. For some reason the stem looks really fat in the picture but its just over an 1/8th inch thick. Finished with CA and Blo, then buffed.

(Sorry about the hot spots on the pics. I was setting up for the shot and tripped over the cord to my studio lights. They went crashing into my diffuser and smashed onto the ground, almost a grand of photography lights laying in pieces on the floor :mad: ... so I shot this with a 50 watt bulb and reflector).

http://www.shanewhitlock.com/gallery/d/1377-1/IMG_0266.jpg

http://www.shanewhitlock.com/gallery/d/1375-1/IMG_0266b.jpg

Comment/Critiques always appreciated.

Happy Turning,
Shane Whitlock

[Patrick Taylor]

Yikes! Sorry about the lights... :(

The goblet looks great, and I agree that the photo makes the stem look thick... but I believe you that it's not! ;)

[Bernie Weishapl]

Shane that is a beauty. You did a excellent job on it.

[Ernie Nyvall]

Curt must be a great teacher. The goblet is really nice Shane.

Too bad about the lights.. sorry to hear that.

[Chris Barton]

That a nice piece Shane! I would love to see Curt do that demo.

[Jim Becker]

Beautiful job! Outstanding piece.

Bummer on the lights, though...

[Curt Fuller]

Hey, looks like you skipped the part where I broke the stem in half. That's a beautiful goblet. The wood combo is very nice too.

[Brodie Brickey]

Shane,

A beautiful piece. What's the angle of the cut when making the celtic knot? 30 degrees?

[Tom Sherman]

Looks like you got the gist of the demo Shane, a great goblet. Curt must be an excellent teacher.

[Ed Scolforo]

Shane, that really beautiful!!

[Joe Melton]

Very nice work! I didn't realize someone else lives in Northern Utah. Do you take turns being mayor?

[Steve Schlumpf]

Beautiful goblet Shane! Sorry to hear about your lights!

[Shane Whitlock]

Thanks for the comments everyone :D

Brodie I cut the angles knots at 15 degrees

Thanks again....

Happy Turning,
Shane Whitlock

[Neal Addy]

Nice goblet, Shane! I would have loved to see Curt's demo. He's da man when it comes to an elegant goblet.

[Dennis Peacock]

Beautiful Shane....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, how DO you get that twisty knot in there???? Inquiring minds wanna know.

[Bob Hallowell]

I Think Curt needs to do a tuturial but I think he can leave the part out were he breaks the stem!:p

Bob

[joe greiner]

BTW, how DO you get that twisty knot in there???? Inquiring minds wanna know.

I think it's pretty much a standard technique.

"Perfectly" square blank. Cut across at the desired angle. Glue in a piece of wood, "exactly" same thickness as the saw kerf. Optional (but not very): plane the insert flush with the blank. Rotate the blank 90 degrees and repeat. And repeat, and repeat. Then turn, "perfectly" centered on the blank. It doesn't take much deviation from "perfectly" or "exactly" to go off the rails (i.e. weird intersections, grain mis-alignment, etc.)

Verrrry well done, Shane. Nice finish too.

Joe

[Jerry Allen]

Thanks for the info Joe.
I spent a few hours yesterday trying one without thinking about the added thickness of the inserts changing the cut location. I was stumped at first as to why the rings were all over the place. Did another today with the same (too thick) insert thickness but offset for the difference in the kerf which came out way better, but not perfect. Will try again matching the kerf.

[Dennis Peacock]

I think it's pretty much a standard technique.

"Perfectly" square blank. Cut across at the desired angle. Glue in a piece of wood, "exactly" same thickness as the saw kerf. Optional (but not very): plane the insert flush with the blank. Rotate the blank 90 degrees and repeat. And repeat, and repeat. Then turn, "perfectly" centered on the blank. It doesn't take much deviation from "perfectly" or "exactly" to go off the rails (i.e. weird intersections, grain mis-alignment, etc.)

Verrrry well done, Shane. Nice finish too.

Joe


Well..I guess that leaves me out. Most everything I do is NOT "perfect" nor would it be "exactly". :)

[Jim Stoppleworth]

Well..I guess that leaves me out. Most everything I do is NOT "perfect" nor would it be "exactly". :)

Remove the most and then the quote fits me "perfectly":D .

But curiosity reigns -- Is the dark edge on the walnut the glue line? It makes a rich looking border to the knot.

Jim

[Bill Wyko]

Just curious, are there any good video's available on doing that type of work. A little something funny. Where all my customers with tv's in their cars are watching music videos, I have 4 tvs in my truck and I watch woodworking videos.:D

[joe greiner]

Omigod, Bill, I hope you're not watching TV in traffic! :eek: Especially turning videos!:eek: :eek:

To get the insert thickness to match the kerf, measure the blade (including total set) with a dial caliper or such; use a stationary belt sander to reduce the insert thickness, measuring all the while.

Clamping the glue-up can be tricky. Probably best is to use a long clamp along the blank, and another clamp cross-ways, so that the resultant pressure is perpendicular to the glue line. Glued-on cauls are troublesome, and just about impossible for shallow angles.

Video? The glue-up alone can take about four days. Bor-r-r-r-ing.:D

Joe

[Curt Fuller]

Joe does it pretty much the same way I do. But I'm not quite as fussy about all the exactness. I shoot for 1/8" thick for the pieces I insert and I shoot for exact center but most times I'm just pretty close. As for clamping, I have a couple of pieces of 2x4 about 4" long that I cut a 45 degree V groove down the center of each. I use that to align everything while glueing with a bar clamp holding it together.

[Shane Whitlock]

Looks like everyone answered your questions and gave good advice.:D

To measure the saw blade thickness I just cut part of the way through a board and measured the cut. That takes into account the offset kerfs and wobble ya might have. I then cut the pieces for the knot and made sure they fit good and tight into the cut I made in the board.

When I glued it I just used CA, soaked the wood real good with it and stuck them together. Quick and easy, no clamping or jig to line it up, just eyeballed it.

Happy Turning,
Shane Whitlock

[joe greiner]

Quite so, you can be a little less fussy if you make your cuts with a table saw, radial arm saw or CMS, and use thicker insert material, because the blade is thicker. Grain alignment is less critical because the eye has to span a greater distance to notice what's happening; in fact, "exact" alignment could be detrimental, owing to optical illusion effects.

With an ordinary miter box and back saw, the blade is thinner and thus so is the insert. I guess you could still get an optical illusion defect by being too exact.

As far as centering is concerned, I don't claim to be a mathematical guru, but I think there's a sine or cosine of the crossing angle involved. Centering "errors" should be less noticeable with a flatter angle, I think.

If you get good results with CA, more power to ya. I just don't trust it for large connections.

Joe

[Jerry Allen]

Thanks folks. Finally got it last night. Nothing fancy just proof of concept.
I used CA but it still took 3 hours and I wouldn't trust it for bigger stuff. And the odor is annoying.
Measuring the kerf worked here, but I did another by lining up the next three cuts on the outside lines drawn across the ends of the first cut instead of using an end stop. That makes it possible to use thicker inserts if desired.

[Jim Myers]

What do you mean by lining up the next cuts on the outside lines....

Just curious as I am trying a couple of pens using scrap practice wood and they did not turn out as neat spacing wise.

And before you ask no I do not have pictures and probably will not take any since these are using left over pine scraps from when I built my son a loft bed.

The bed turned out nice but drilling a straight hole through soft pine with my drill press is next to impossible.

The good thing is that I can drill the whole blank all the way through as the travel is long enough.

Got off the topic here.....

[Jim Myers]

That makes more sense than what I tried.

Thank you and maybe if I get a decent one done I will post a picture of it.

[Jerry Allen]

Jim,
I apologize. I was totally wrong. Don't waste your time. I'd delete the post but editing/deleting seems to be disabled.
YOU CAN USE A WIDER INSERT BUT YOU NEED TO TRIM THE END AGAINST THE STOP BY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE KERF AND THE INSERT.
I did this by adding a shim between the stop and the cut piece and trimming. The shim is the cosine x the difference between the blade and the insert. Then made a pass again on the end just cut at the same angle, yielding a final kerf the same width as the insert.
Below is a quick example using a .093 blade and a .25 thick insert at 45deg.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Just curious, are there any good video's available on doing that type of work. A little something funny. Where all my customers with tv's in their cars are watching music videos, I have 4 tvs in my truck and I watch woodworking videos.:DBill, do us a favor and just drive. We need you around for a while longer.:D
Shane, beautiful Job!!

[Jim Myers]

Thank you for the additional info.

What I have been trying with Pens is colored veneer and a small mitre box. The saw blade is really thin so it takes a cut close enough to the thickness I need.

When I move on to a real lathe and try bigger things this will help.