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View Full Version : Contractor, Cabinet, Now a Slider



Robert Strasser
06-08-2007, 3:10 PM
I recently received a new Felder K 500 sliding table saw. This is the third saw I've purchased in 6 years. Each was an "upgrade" from the previous saw.

I'm now reflecting on how each of my previous table saws met my needs and expectations. So I thought I'd run down the list for those that might be thinking of a saw purchase. I often see posts on this forum that asks for advice on which saw to buy.

I owned a Sears contractor saw for years. To set the fence accurately usually required some tapping with a hammer. It was not a very good saw. But it filled the need before I started making furniture.

My first upgrade was a Delta Contractor Saw with a Unifence. I purchased it mail order in October 2000. It was delivered in several boxes. The extension table was destroyed in transit and was immediately replaced. The saw came with all parts accounted for and good instructions. I had the saw put together and running within 6 hours, working at a leisurely pace. It fit together well for a contractor-type saw. There are many sheet-metal parts for the stand and legs that always seem to take a little wiggling to fit right. But all the holes lined up well enough. The saw top was in very good condition and the fence needed only very minor adjustment which is easy with a Unifence. I also switched the saw to run on 240 volts which was easy to do since the instructions where right on the motor. Another modification I made right away was to the blade guard. I kept the Delta splitter, but replaced the guard with an Excalibur overhead guard. I was very happy with this saw. I especially liked the Unifence. It is still my favorite type of rip fence. I had it for almost 3 years and it did everything I needed most of the time. I did stall the motor cutting some thick hard wood a few times. Overall, good instruction manual, good fit and finish, and easy to use. On the quality scale, the Sears was a 2 and the Delta Contractor Saw a 6.

My next saw cost 2 1/2 times the Delta. It was a Powermatic 66. I purchased it from Woodcraft in February 2003. Shipping was no problem since I took it home my self. This saw came with excellent instructions and all parts were accounted for. I easily had this saw together within 4 hours. All holes matched exactly. Adjusting the cast iron wings to match the top only required a light tap of a hammer with a wood block. The top was more level than I could measure. I tried to measure the arbor run out. The needle on the dial indicator barely moved. The blade was lined up with the miter slot within the accuracy I could measure. The fence was lined up with the miter slot. There was a quality control sheet that came with the saw that showed all these items were checked and given a value. Everything was more accurate than I would ever need. The blade guard I considered junk. I didn't put it on. I used a Biesemeyer Snap-In Splitter and my Excalibur blade guard. This saw easily passed the nickel test. It was smooth. The Biesemeyer clone fence was ok, but I missed my Unifence. The only problem I had with this saw was the magnetic start switch. I pressed the off button one day and the saw would not turn off. This is not good. The switch was made in China. The remainder of the saw was made in the USA, including the Baldor motor. I liked this saw very much and I had to really think hard before replacing it. On the quality and long-term use scale, I'd give it an 8.

My new saw that I just received is a Felder K-500 sliding table saw. I bought this from Felder-USA in Delaware. My saw was made to order in Austria. It took about 6 weeks from order to delivery. This saw, including all the accessories, cost close to 4 times the Powermatic 66. The main reason I bought a sliding table saw was for safety reasons. Another reason is I just liking working with good tools. I consider this saw safer because I will be using the sliding table for nearly all cutting, including ripping hardwood. I've already made a jig to cut rails and styles with an accuracy and finish better than I could with the PM 66. This saw is safer because it just about eliminates kick back and my hands will never go close to the blade. I've never cut myself on a table saw, but I've had kick backs. One of the kick backs broke a window that was behind me. The saw was delivered on a 4 by 7 foot pallet and weighed a little over 1,000 pounds. It was very well packaged and there was no shipping damage or loose items. The user manual and assembly instructions were in German. So I only had the pictures to go by. I called Felder-USA on this and they said the English manual is being printed. The K-500 saw is a new model, but I don't see this as an excuse. This is very poor planning. I did receive an English manual via email for a similar saw that I could use. Fortunately, nearly all the assembly is just putting on the rip fence and sheet metal extension table. I then spent allot of time just checking the saw construction and alignment. Fit and finish of these parts were average, but not great. I also purchased a mobility kit that works great, but was a little difficult to put on. The rip fence required some adjustment. Actually it came with loose bolts and a micro-adjustment feature that did not work at all. This took half an hour to fix. The outrigger table and fences are easy to put on and take off. They were also aligned very well. Then I found a major problem. The splitter was not aligned. It was way outside the plane of the blade. It was also twisted. I fixed this problem with instructions received from Felder-USA. This saw has excellent dust collection, with a dust shroud around the blade and a dust port in the blade guard. I finally got a saw with a good and usable blade guard. I've only had the saw a couple weeks, so I can't give it a long-term quality rating. However, for a saw of this price range I found initial quality to be poor. Especially compared to my PM 66. But I'm still happy with the purchase and I've done enough tests to be confident it will do what I expected it to do. I've cut panels with the outrigger to as perfect as square as I can measure, and I've ripped hardwood on the sliding table with ease.

Brian Lindenlaub
06-08-2007, 3:30 PM
I am still at the "Sears contractor saw" stage, and often wonder if I should upgrade, and how much. Thanks for one of the most informative posts I've read on the subject, and the opportunity to learn from your experience.

Brian

Bruce Page
06-08-2007, 3:36 PM
Robert, congrats on the new slider. Your travels up to the Felder are much like mine although I’m still using my Unisaw. It was disappointing to read about your initial problems with the K 500 but it sounds like you have them worked out.

Gary Curtis
06-08-2007, 4:09 PM
Congratulations. One month ago I took a Woodworking Class with Mark Duginske at the West Coast facility of Felder. For those of you who don't know him, Mark wrote one of the two definitive books on Bandsaws.

In the class, we made a front door using only the timbers from the bottom of a Felder pallet. Duginske owns a Feldere saw/shaper combination and while demonstrating milling the lumber he said that the Felder replaced 5 machines in his shop. That's the advantage of a combination machine.

He also said that anyone getting into the cabinet business in today's world is kidding themselves if they don't get a sliding table saw. He wasn't there to sell or pump up the machinery for the class of about 30 guys. But I could see the advantages of a slider all through the 2-day session.

About a third of the attendees own Felder equipment. For someone who is a hobbyist, the cost is a serious drawback. The professionals there talked about how a few paying jobs offset the price. And of course you need available space to fit a slider in your shop.

I enjoyed your retelling of your experience with the different brands of equipment.

Gary Curtis

Don Bullock
06-08-2007, 4:37 PM
Great post Robert. That sure looks like a super piece of equipment. Congratulations.

I'm still at the cabinet saw stage on your timeline.;) :D

Todd Solomon
06-08-2007, 8:19 PM
Robert,

Congratulations on your new machine, and I'm glad you got the issues sorted out. My experience was much better with my K700S Plus, sorry to hear you had some issues. In my case, I live a couple of hours from Felder Sacramento, so they gave me an excellent deal on commissioning. A Felder tech delivered the machine, assembled the 9' slider to the saw, and calibrated it. It has been flawless ever since (about 3-1/2 years). In any case, I hope you enjoy your new machine, and keep us posted, as you put it through it's paces.

Todd

Clint Winterhalter
06-08-2007, 8:33 PM
Robert,
Congratulations on the new Saw! Its a fine looking machine!
I enjoyed reading your table saw history.
Good Luck with the new toy!

Clint

Jim Becker
06-08-2007, 9:11 PM
Something I'd like to add to this conversation is that these Euro design machines are typically sold as or at least derived from "industrial" tool focus. Most of the manufacturers have likewise offered for a long time "commissioning" services to buyers where the machines are set up and fine tuned by a factory trained technician before they are put into use. Industry and larger pro shops generally don't have issue with using these services and even expect them, especially those used to buying from these firms. But most of us who are hobbyists or in smaller pro shops are less likely to engage the vendor for installation and adjustment support because of the fee...it's not inexpensive. And we're not used to paying for it given many of our previous tool purchases were for machines not blessed with a lot of adjustability. Therefore, "we" need to do those things once we take delivery. It's a little bit of a pain sometimes, but once you get through the "check list", that machine is going to stay dead-on for as long as you don't bang your pickup truck into it. It also accounts for little concern from the vendor on things like paint imperfections and cast iron surfaces that don't "gleam" like mirrors. They are industrial tools.

Of course, I do agree that being able to actually read the manual would be useful! :D (Having recently done the same with a poor translation of the Italian for my own slider)

My table saw progression was similar... Sears bench top (in a Roussau table/fence setup), Delta Grand Edition Contractors' style saw, Jet LT Cabinet saw and now the Mini Max S315WS slider. I also loved the UniFence on the Delta machine and am happy to be back to the same format/capabilities with the slider.

Brian Clevenger
06-09-2007, 3:17 AM
As a member who has been through more table saws than makes sense, I appreciate your post.

I'm now happy with my Sears 22124, because I only have a garage/shop and space is limited.

I started out with a benchtop Delta, moved to a Ryobi BT3100 (great small saw btw), upgraded to the Delta contractor saw that HD blew out several years ago. A good friend has my "old" Delta, and I don't think he would part with it.

I then found an odd-ball cabinet saw that was pretty nice, but It was tough to make zero-clearance inserts for it, and I use them a lot.... (that saw was Taiwanese made and use to be sold by Sears, Dayton, and most recently showed up as the Delta model 36-732, I hated it). It had all the power and precision I could ask for, but I couldn't get over the insert plates and the lack of a splitter/guard assembly.

I'm now on the Sears 22124 with a Shark Guard, and it will get my by until I have a dedicated shop.

My next saw..... I long for a pre-1972 Rockwell Uni in mint condition.

But I'm just a hobbiest and a new found junkie to ol' arn.

If I had to make a living. I think I'd go Euro-slider all the way.

John Renzetti
06-09-2007, 8:37 AM
hi Robert, I think we all suffer from acute upgradeitis. Some are afflicted worse than others. I went from a Craftsman radial arm saw, purchased in 1984 that I used a lot during the construction of my house. Next was a nice USA made Delta Unisaw, purchased in 1990. That saw got a lot of use. Then I made the big jump to a Felder KF7F saw/shaper in 1998. That was a big difference. Never used the unisaw again so I sold it. With retirement looming I upgraded to a Kappa40 slider and got a separate shaper thinking I would do more closet systems for others. But that got put on hold with an offer from work I couldn't refuse. So I put retirement off until March 09 when I turn 62. Part of the deal was I get to spend about 6.5 months in a dry, hot, sandy vacation spot.
I saw your bent splitter post on the FOG. Glad it worked out and the machine is working like it should.
take care,
John

Cliff Rohrabacher
06-09-2007, 9:36 AM
You are going to like the Felder - - - I guarantee it~!!

Art Mann
06-09-2007, 10:23 AM
Thanks for the insight. I especially appreciate your honesty and candor with respect to the new saw. A lot of guys would be hesitant to point out any defects or drawbacks to a piece of equipment they just paid so much for. I am confident you will get this big boy perfectly tuned and it will serve you well for decades to come. I couldn't imagine you would want to upgrade this saw!

Garth Keel
06-09-2007, 1:15 PM
Your info was very timely as I am "still" investigating table saws. I have just started to look at sliders and have been wondering if the prices worth it.

Vic Damone
06-09-2007, 1:15 PM
Nice history and review, thanks for taking the time. Your shop is absolutely stunning, WOW!

Vic

J.R. Rutter
06-09-2007, 2:47 PM
He also said that anyone getting into the cabinet business in today's world is kidding themselves if they don't get a sliding table saw.

I know what he means if he is comparing sliders to standard table saws. But a lot of shops go for a vertical panel saw instead of a slider. Uses up much less floor space and makes sheet handling easier. The Europeans make some really nice vertical saws . . .

Martin Shupe
06-09-2007, 2:54 PM
Good post. One day I hope to own a Felder, but I hope they fix their quality issues! I have used their tools at Kelly Mehler's school, and I have been impressed with them.

Mike Wilkins
06-14-2007, 10:53 AM
Thanks Robert for the insight into this new offering. I requested and received info on this line-up of machines, as well as the Hammer and Felder 700/900 series. The 500 line is on my short list of table saws to consider for 2 reasons:
the price point and the Felder name. There are loads of accessories available for these machines.
I also had a similar path with tablesaws: from a $99 tabletop saw, to a 1940's vintage Milwaukee 8" saw, to a Craftsman contractor-style, to my current Rockwell/Delta Unisaw, manufactured in 1964.
So I am overdue for an upgrade.
Thanks for the info on the 500.
Stay safe and watch those fingers.