Tablesaw and planer purchase and suggestions

[Minh Nguyen]

Hello All -

Excuse my newbie questions. I am really new to woodworking. All I have taken so far is two woodworking classes (4 hrs a week for 6 weeks), so my experience is very limited. I hadn't used a tablesaw, planer, jointer , radial arm saw before this class. Now I have caught the woodworking bug and want to start my own woodshop. The shop will be in my two car garage - which is used for for storage, washer & dryer, and fish tank filtration system. Space is limited.

I am looking at purchasing my first table saw. My budget is limited ($1500 max). Right now - I am leaning towards the Grizzly G1023SL. From all the review I have read, it's not the best tablesaw out there, but it's great for the price. The tablesaw does not come with any blades, so I need to purchase one. Seems like everyone likes the Forrest Woodworker II blade. I went to amazon to look at the Forrest WWII blades, and can't figure out which one to purchase. Should I go with a 40T or 60T blade? My first project will be cutting 3/4" oak in 2" strips in order to refinish my wood floor. (Estimate cost to hire a professional = $3500. Told my wife if I could buy the tools, I could do it for much less. :D ). I am also looking at the Incra LS32-TS table saw fence system. IS the Incra LS32-TS worth the price? Between the table saw ($995), the Incra LS32-TS ($340) and blade ($99) - I am at about my table saw limit.

The second item I am looking at is a planer. I need this to plane down the planks of wood for my hardwood floor project. Right now - I am leaning towards a refurbished Delta DW735 from Ebay. $500 is about the max I am willing to spend on the planer. Any other suggestions?

Hopefully I will be looking at getting a jointer in the near future. But at this time, I need to buy the tools "needed" to refinish my hardwood floor.

Thanks
Minh

[James Phillips]

Buy your tools, but do not cut your own wood flooring. Look some where lick lumber liquidators and find a deal. When you factor in waste you can get tounge and groove flooring for what you would pay in raw materials to have to cut up.

[scott spencer]

The items you mention are all good choices for your situation IMHO. AFAIK, the Griz does not offer an option of no fence, so getting an Incra would require eating the built in cost of the Shop Fox Classic fence, or making the effort to sell it. The Classic is a pretty good Biese clone that you just might like...I'd suggest giving the SF a try before pursuing the Incra. The Incra can always be added later if the SF isn't to your liking.

Forrest makes top notch blades, though a bit on the pricey side. The WWII is a good choice in a general purpose blade if you're looking for a blade that will do a good job in a wide variety of materials on a wide variety of cuts. The cut quality will be very clean, plus it'll rip well to ~ 2". If you're for an even cleaner cut, then the 60T is a great choice for the cleanest cuts, (especially well suited for crosscuts) but isn't as versatile and won't rip as aggressively, so you'll likely want to add a dedicated 20-24T ripping blade for thick stock and swap blades as needed. The ripper is good investment regardless of which primary blade you choose. The primary choice boils down to how fussy you want to be, and whether or not you're up to changing blades more frequently. I personally find the top notch 40 toofers to be plenty good for nearly all my applications, but I do use the ripper for thick stuff to spare my motor and the wear on the good blade.

There are several other good blade choices along the lines of a WWII from Ridge Carbide (TS2000), Tenryu Gold Medal or RS25550, Infinity Super or Combomax, Freud's Premier P410 Fusion, Delta's Industrial 35-7657 (formerly the DW7657), to name a few. Whichever one tickles your fancy should do very well. American WWer, issue 118, Nov 2005 has one of the most informative blade articles I've read...worth looking into.

The DW735 is another great choice, but again, is not always be most attractive value. They also make the DW734, Delta offers the 22-580 and TP400LS, Ridgid has the 1300, and the Makita 2012 are all excellent choices. The 735 has a chip ejector that's handy if you don't have a DC yet.

Good luck and post back once you've got some dust on your selections!

[Clint Winterhalter]

Minh,
I own a Shopfox W1677. Its the grizzly 1023 with white paint. I think you will be very happy with the 1023SL. Build a nice cut off sled and an out feed table and it will serve you well.

The Shopfox classic fence is a decent bies clone. I agree with Scott. I would give it a try before you jump to the incra. If you have your heart set on the Incra, you should be able to get a few bucks for the SF on eBay to offset the cost of the incra. (Shopfox classic sells for $225 from Grizzly)

Good Luck!

Clint

[Minh Nguyen]

James - Sorry - but I didnt' do a good job of explaining what I am doing. I would fully agree with you if I was putting in new hardwood floor. However, when we tore out our carpet, there was a top-nailed hardwood floor underneath. For the most part, the hardwood is in decent condition. However, there are spots where the wood has split or has heavy nail hole damage. In addition, there are spots where there has been extensive water damage, and I think the wood needs replacement. The hardwood plank is 2." wide, and I haven't been able to find 2" planks. I am going to buy 2 1/4" tongue and groove plank and rip it down to 2" (hence the tablesaw). Then I am going to use the planer to bring it down to the correct thickness (from 3/4" to roughly less than 1/2"). The $3500 price was for resurfacing the floor, putting on a new protective sealant (polyurethane), and base board for about 1100 sq ft.


Scott - thanks for the advice. I chose the DW735 because of the dual speed. I am not even sure I will need that, but I hate to buy something and regret my purchase later on. I will research into the other planer as well. :D

Clint - thanks for the info. I do like the SF white color much better Grizzly green color. However - I don't think I can justify the $200+ price difference just for a color preference. :P Do you have pictures of your outfeed table and cutoff sled? I am not sure that I will have room in my small garage to do all the stuff I would like to do. :( Do we really need a washer and dryer?

BTW - the only reason why I am considering the Incra fence right now is because Amazon has it on sale for $272 (shipping included). I forgot - I also need to add on a mobile base.

[jason lambert]

I would avoid the DeWalt Plainer if you read the reviews it goes through blades fast but if you don't do that much it is a good plainer. I was just looking at one I am now leaning towards the steel city.

As for a table saw I can't really recomend one but I will tell you my festool atf55 saw has almost compleatly replaced my table saw (depending on what you are doing) and is alot safer, faster and takes less room in my gurage shop. Also for flooring and wacking wood a miter saw is good and not to expensive, again alot safer and quicker than a table saw.

Just food for thought.

[Don Morris]

I have the 1023SL with the SF fence and have been happy with it. The TS is awesome for the price. I agree a well made sled is a must (and a joy after you've gone to the trouble to make it). I use my mobile workbench as my outfeed table. I'm in a basement so I have limited space too. Scott Spencer's advice is always on the mark. Review it. I also have a WWII blade and it's the gold standard, but as you've found out a little pricey. I change to a Rip blade for rough stuff, it's not that tough or time consuming to do.

Welcome to SMC, a great place to ask the questions you've asked. The people here are the ones to ask. Lots of experience, some different views, some different applications, but always willing to share and that's been a Godsend at times.

Good luck in your quest!

Don M

[James Phillips]

For all the talk about the blades on the DW735, I have had mune for about 4 years and have ran at least 500 bd ft through it and never flipped the blades and I still get a nice finish.

[Nancy Laird]

Minh, if you have a budget of $1500 for a TS, you might take a look at a Unisaw with a Bies fence. I know they are available for prices within your budget.

Nancy

[jason lambert]

That is good news about the DW735. I love the size and everything else just the blades scared me I may have to revisit it.

[glenn bradley]

For all the talk about the blades on the DW735, I have had mune for about 4 years and have ran at least 500 bd ft through it and never flipped the blades and I still get a nice finish.

When I read those reports I am sure they are accurate based on point of view. I just have a different perspective on what a 'lot of use' is. My DW734 (I know, different knives) has not been a problem at all. Although I do a lot of 'stuff' I only turn out 1 or 2 'real' pieces a year so I probably wouldn't notice the knife-life problem like someone with a higher output would.

[Minh Nguyen]

Nancy,

I was under the impression that Unisaw were considably more expensive. Can you give me a link to a Unisaw with a Bes fence for $1500?

Thanks
Minh

[Nancy Laird]

Nancy,

I was under the impression that Unisaw were considably more expensive. Can you give me a link to a Unisaw with a Bes fence for $1500?

Thanks
Minh

I may have mis-spoken, Minh. I just checked the website and the cheapest I can come up with is $1700. Sorry.:( They were on sale earlier for under $1500, but the DELTA® 10" HYBRID SAW COMES WITH TABLE BOARD AND BIESEMEYER® FENCE, it's a left-tilt, for $1139.00. I'm PMing you the link.

Nancy

[James Phillips]

When I read those reports I am sure they are accurate based on point of view. I just have a different perspective on what a 'lot of use' is. My DW734 (I know, different knives) has not been a problem at all. Although I do a lot of 'stuff' I only turn out 1 or 2 'real' pieces a year so I probably wouldn't notice the knife-life problem like someone with a higher output would.

That is why I specified bd ft. I think over 500 bd ft on a set of knives is acceptable, but I have only owned one planer

[Steve Jensen]

Minh,

Last month I bought my first table saw too. I decided on the Grizzly 1023SLX. I had some problems with shipping and damaged parts, but Grizzly took fantastic care of me. I WILL buy more Grizzly tools.

That said, I am extremely pleased with the quality of this saw. The cast iron tables are polished to a mirror finish and the fit and finish or the rest of the parts far exceeded my expectations. For the price, not only is it a great saw, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised like me with the quality.

Good luck with your decision and putting your new shop together, we're going through the same thing together. You've found the best place online for guys who know their tools and wood, there are some really smart folks here.

Steve

[Kim Spence]

Right now on Amazon Delta Unisaw 36-L31X-U50 thats X5 Left Tilt with Unifence and 50 Inch rails/table, 3 HP for $1,369.98!!

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-36-L31X-U50-Horsepower-Unifence-Extension/dp/B0000A25YK/ref=pd_bbs_3/002-0677436-3097642?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1181347870&sr=8-3

Thats a steal!

Its not a Bies fence, but the Unifence is a heck of a nice fence too, used to have on on an old contractor saw and I miss it at times.

[Kim Spence]

I may have mis-spoken, Minh. I just checked the website and the cheapest I can come up with is $1700. Sorry.:( They were on sale earlier for under $1500, but the DELTA® 10" HYBRID SAW COMES WITH TABLE BOARD AND BIESEMEYER® FENCE, it's a left-tilt, for $1139.00. I'm PMing you the link.

Nancy
Just saw this saw on Amazon for $958

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/handle-buy-box/ref=dp_start-bbf_1_glance/002-0677436-3097642

[Brian Clevenger]

I wouldn't spend the extra money on the new Unisaws. They aren't your granddaddy's Uni. Except for the X5, they are made in the same overseas plants as the rest of the lot (Grizzly, Shop Fox, JET, and others).

Now, if you can find a pre 1972 Unisaw, that is the one to get.

[Pat Germain]

I'm also in the process of building a garage shop, Minh. I'm not an expert, but based on what I do know, I think your tool choices are very good.

I would also recommend buying a decent dust collector as soon as you can. Perhaps you could take the advice of trying the SF fence for awhile and applying the money you have for the Incra fence on a DC.

Although I've had a table saw, router, and a few other small tools for many years, I rarely did any woodworking because it was such a chore to just clean up the mess. Even doing small projects turned my garage into a blizzard of sawdust.

Now that I have a dust collector, cleanup is a breeze! I'm reminded of how much that DC does whenever I forget to turn it on. I can't imagine using a planer without a DC. I guess bringing it outside would be necessary.

[Greg Crawford]

Minh,

I bought my Unisaw several years ago from Woodworker's Supply (woodworker.com). It came with the 50" commercial Biesemeyer and a mobile base for around $1300. They also offer (or at least they used to) a 10% discount for the first order a new customer places. In my latest catalog they have a 50" Biesemeyer or Unifence, 3 HP with mobile base for $1699, plus "no motor freight charge". It lists a $250 rebate that expired 5-31, but that may have been extended.

I also was looking at the Incra until I got my Biese. It may not be accurate to .001", but it's more accurate than my eyes can see on a ruler! I've been absolutely delighted with the saw/fence.

Also own a 22-580, and it's amazing. Delta calls it a finish planer, and it almost is. Very little sanding is needed to remove the planing marks. Of course, if you try to take a lot of material in one pass, or you put a lot of knots through it, the blades will go fast. That may be the same problem folks have found with the 735.

Don't forget, you'll be taking the rip fence off the saw and putting it back on a lot! A t-square style fence is very easy, where the Incra and Jointech, with their saddles, can take a bit more, especially if you use the front and rear locks.

Good thinking about justifying the cost to your wife. I just hope you can come up with more projects to get more tools! I'd be interested in pics of your finished project, too.

Greg

[Minh Nguyen]

Thanks everyone for giving me more information.

Kim - thanks for the link to the Unisaw. I was sitting on the fence between that saw and the Grizzly. I was actually still leaning towards the Grizzly because the Delta would have been too big for my small garage. :( But they raised the price up to $1658 - so my decision became even easier. I am not exactly disappointed because the money I save can be used to purchase other necessities.

Update on Planer: I found a used Delta 22-580 dual speed planer for $250. During the test run, the planer left a high spot that was a straight line. I assumed that it was just a blade problem, so I bought it. Came home and flipped the blade around and it seems to be working great. The planer also came with an inexpensive stand. I also purchased 5 pipe clams for $15.

I also pulled wire in my garage for a 50 amp subpanel. Now I need to wire the outlets.

[Jeff Raymond]

I've read and hesitated to comment on this thread, but what the heck.

If a person is serious about doing woodworking with quality machinery, (after doing this for more years than I care to admit), my suggestion is to buy machinery once. That means, get the best you can get, especially in 'foundation' machines, such as a TS, jointer, planer and so on. No sense in crimping a few hundred dollars and then be looking around for a better one just a bit down the line. That strategy is more expensive than getting the good stuff right up front.

As to what is 'new.' There are tons of TS out there which are preowned and in good shape. On the internet, local papers and so on are lots of great opportunities. All this arn needs a good place to land and I wouldn't default to assuming that every piece of machinery needs to be new.

End of minor rant.

[Scott Lingle]

I'll have to agree with James on this one. I understand that this is just my perspective, but I got a 735 a couple years back (I want to say 2 1/2) and haven't had to touch the blades yet. The first project with this planer was about 300 bf of rough-cut red oak, so it got a workout on the first day. The dual-speed functionality works out pretty good. It gives you a dimensioning planer and a finish planer all in one box. The chip ejector works out great as well for those of us without DC (yet).
Also, someone help me out, didn't I read something about DeWalt changing the blades on the newer revisions of the 735, or am I imagining that?
Can't help on much else, my wife surprised me with a PM66 a few years ago (well, as much as she could while still trying to explain the skid-steer with forks on it in the driveway to assist in delivery :D)
The '66' is a great saw though.

Good Luck on your purchases.