dye sublimation process - how to

[Harry Radaza]

looking to be able to print on plain ceramic tiles to do murals.

have a heat press but for some reason I can't. I heard maybe dye sublimation is the way. How and what materials, equipment do I need for this ?

[rick woodward]

need to register at www.dyesub.org (http://www.dyesub.org). To transfer to plain tiles you need a laser printer and the right transfer paper. Dye sub ink is expensive, problematic and limited to specially coated substrates.

[Mike Null]

In order to do dye sub you must have a polymer or polymer coated substrate.

These tend to be much more expensive than like items not coated.
Dye sub ink is very expensive, paper is cheap.

It is a temperamental process with a higher than expected rate of rejects further adding to the cost.

Reliability and quality are dependent on relatively high volume.

A good option is to align yourself with someone already doing dye sub and buy your transfers from them. Expect to pay about $5 per page.

[Gary Hair]

need to register at www.dyesub.org (http://www.dyesub.org). To transfer to plain tiles you need a laser printer and the right transfer paper. Dye sub ink is expensive, problematic and limited to specially coated substrates.


In order to do dye sub you must have a polymer or polymer coated substrate.

These tend to be much more expensive than like items not coated.
Dye sub ink is very expensive, paper is cheap.

It is a temperamental process with a higher than expected rate of rejects further adding to the cost.

Reliability and quality are dependent on relatively high volume.

A good option is to align yourself with someone already doing dye sub and buy your transfers from them. Expect to pay about $5 per page.

Dye sub is not that expensive and not that difficult to do. I just started last year and I find that most people who are talking about how difficult it is either have never done it or are using early generation equipment.

I have an epson R1800 and use Sublijet IQ bulk inks. I have had a little bit of a learning curve but once you get the basics figured out it is really foolproof. My cost per page of 8-1/2 x 11 paper is something like $0.70 if it is printed on most of the page. The substrates are more expensive than CLTT but you get what you pay for. In my opinion, CLTT is just slightly better than screen printing. You put it on any surface and it promptly wears off. I can scratch dye subbed or CLTT surfaces, but CLTT is much worse (again, in MY opinion).

When you consider I can charge $100 for a 12" x 12" dye subbed tile, the $1.40 in paper and $8.00 for a tile is inconsequential. My subbed tiles can be used on counters, floors, pools, hot tubs, and more - compare that with CLTT.

Figure on spending about $5,000 to get setup properly to do dye sub, printer, heat press, inks, paper, samples, test pieces, etc. Probably 1/4 to 1/2 that for CLTT, but I really believe that you get what you pay for.

If you want someone to print dye sub, I would be happy to do it. If you want CLTT samples contact Mick Eminger at:
Cactus Equipment & Supplies
www.cactus-equipment.com (http://www.cactus-equipment.com)
800-440-6847

Gary

[Mike Null]

I'm glad you're doing well with dye sub but your idea that you get what you pay for in substrates is wrong.


The substrates are more expensive than CLTT but you get what you pay for. In my opinion, CLTT is just slightly better than screen printing. You put it on any surface and it promptly wears off. I can scratch dye subbed or CLTT surfaces, but CLTT is much worse (again, in MY opinion).

Most of the dye sub substrates are, in fact, more expensive, t-shirts, mugs, name tag material, metal even tile though I would not use CLTT for tile. In some cases they are inferior--name tag material, sign material, mouse pads.

There are some things I do not do with CLTT; mugs being a prime example, but on the whole it is far more versatile, more saleable and more problem free than dye sub.

Let your printer sit for two weeks without a job and see what happens. Do a mug without your transfer being perfectly positioned and let me know what happens. Do a t-shirt without protecting the back side from blow through.

[Harry Radaza]

i was suggested to use pigment ink on my epson c59? for refills as it stays better. tried printing it onto transfer paper and pressing on tiles. no go. cannot. it just wipes off.

So i assume I need different type sublimation ink which I need to get imported ?

I always thought I can print on tiles with my set up now.

Does anyone have a guide/chart on what the temperature settings and time settings to press for the different materials so I won't have to hit and miss. At least I will have something to start on ?

any links for dye sub ?

[Martin Boekers]

I've been doing dye sub for awhile now. I use it mostly for metal plates , which seems to work ok, I have a more consistant product then I did with the laserable Alumark sheets. I still run in to problems with with the paper sticking to the metal or some surface transefer problems with the paper but some Novus acrylic polish usually takes care of that. Photos though forget it. To get a consistant quality transfer has been next to impossible. Iv'e had others in the sublimation business produce some work for me and they have'nt had any better luck than myself. So if anyone can help on the photo end some tips or ideas that would be great. I quit offering color projects because of the quality issues.:confused:

Thank
Marty

[Gary Hair]

I've been doing dye sub for awhile now. I use it mostly for metal plates , which seems to work ok, I have a more consistant product then I did with the laserable Alumark sheets. I still run in to problems with with the paper sticking to the metal or some surface transefer problems with the paper but some Novus acrylic polish usually takes care of that. Photos though forget it. To get a consistant quality transfer has been next to impossible. Iv'e had others in the sublimation business produce some work for me and they have'nt had any better luck than myself. So if anyone can help on the photo end some tips or ideas that would be great. I quit offering color projects because of the quality issues.:confused:

Thank
Marty

Marty,
Everything I do is color, and mostly photos. Try using light tack adhesive spray on your metal parts and you get better adhesion and they will peel right off of the paper. I just finished a job that was 300, 2-1/2 x 3" "dash plates". The first test I did was a pain, the paper stuck and the result wasn't that great. I sprayed a very light mist of adhesive and after I pressed it the paper peeled away with a very slight residue of the adhesive. A quick rinse with water and a gray finishing pad and they were spotless - probably a lot quicker than cleaning with Novus.

I use the same stuff on everything but tile, but I haven't tried it on fabric yet - I guess it would wash out in the laundry but I just haven't taken the time to try it yet.

If you like, send me one of the images you tried and I'll give it a shot on some dynasub - couldn't hurt.

Gary

garyhair at comcast dot net

[Gary Hair]

I'm glad you're doing well with dye sub but your idea that you get what you pay for in substrates is wrong.



Most of the dye sub substrates are, in fact, more expensive, t-shirts, mugs, name tag material, metal even tile though I would not use CLTT for tile. In some cases they are inferior--name tag material, sign material, mouse pads.

There are some things I do not do with CLTT; mugs being a prime example, but on the whole it is far more versatile, more saleable and more problem free than dye sub.

Let your printer sit for two weeks without a job and see what happens. Do a mug without your transfer being perfectly positioned and let me know what happens. Do a t-shirt without protecting the back side from blow through.

Mike,
I think ALL dye sub materials are more expensive, not just some. I disagree about the name tags, signs and mouse pads - I have done a few name tags on aluminum and dynasub and I think they turned out great, better than the CLTT items I have seen, could just be what the CLTT was done on though.

There are some aspects of CLTT that are way less trouble than dye sub - leaving a printer for weeks without printing, for example, but I still would rather put up with dye sub.

I am not sure about your comment about not having a transfer perfectly positioned on a mug? It's stuck on wrong whether you are subbing or CLTTing, isn't it?

As for shirts, I would rather protect a t-shirt from a blowout and know that the image is PERMANENTLY dyed into the fabric than to CLTT it and know that it is ON the fabric and WILL come off. Dye sub stays on as long as the material lasts - it is PART of the material, not ON it.

I'm not trying to start an argument, just stating my opinions. I did a lot of research before I jumped into dye sub and I think I made the right decision for the products I wanted to provide to my customers. CLTT has it's place, it just wasn't the best fit for me.

Gary

[Mike Null]

Gary

First, I respect your opinions, mine are in some instances different. If you are having success that makes them all the more valid.

The mug issue is relevant only to dye sub as I contend that CLTT will not work for mugs due to the durability issue. It may only be an issue for me but if I don't positon the paper precisely right on the mug and the mug in the press part of the image doesn't sublimate.

When customers want to buy t-shirts for $5 to $10 dye sub is not a reality. I agree it is a better and more permanent image but I get a good reliable image from CLTT for half the price and it holds up for several years.

I also do not have color issues which are common with dye sub. As far as mouse pads are concerned, again you have to pay a premium and in this case the image is no better.

My Epson dye sub printer model DAMNED1280 is available free to anybody who will pay shipping. It's guaranteed-------not to work.

[Gary Hair]

Gary

First, I respect your opinions, mine are in some instances different. If you are having success that makes them all the more valid.

And I respect yours - it's sometimes hard to interpret what has been written but I am sure this would be a friendly conversation if we were face to face.


The mug issue is relevant only to dye sub as I contend that CLTT will not work for mugs due to the durability issue. It may only be an issue for me but if I don't positon the paper precisely right on the mug and the mug in the press part of the image doesn't sublimate.
It sounds like you might have something quirky with your press. I use wraps and have found them to be pretty foolproof - even I can't screw them up...


My Epson dye sub printer model DAMNED1280 is available free to anybody who will pay shipping. It's guaranteed-------not to work.

Sorry to laugh at your frustration, but that's pretty funny.

Gary

[Nick Cardone]

Mike - sorry to hear that about your 1280...I got three of them - two of them on Bulk dye sub ink set ups....Whenever one sits for a few weeks , it will clog....

I've had success with using Windex w/ Ammonia ..Here's something you can try to unclog it...it may take two or three days but it works...

Move the print head to the far left side of print carriage and remove the bulk ink carts..then power off the printer.

Grab a syringe with a rubber tube that fits the nozzels for each ink jet and inject about 2 ml's of Windex into each jet...( i microwave the Windex in a glass for about 18 - 20 seconds so it's hot.. ) ...let it sit for about an hour or two...came back to the printer after 2 hours...and repeat the above procedure but this time as you inject the Windex with the syringe - pull the tube on the syringe to simulate a flushing effect ..( you should see the windex now cloudy with ink that got pulled out )..i use a clean syringe for each color so as not to contaminate the ink jet nozzle.

Next - inject 2 ml of hot windex one more time into each jet and let sit over night...

Do not run the nozzle check or clean head utility yet !!!

At this point the next day - i insert OEM Epson 1280 carts inside the 1280
and now run about 4 to 6 nozzle check print outs until there are no clogs at all...you can then re-attach ur bulk ink dye set up and print with no clogs...

I've used this procedure about 1/2 dozen times and it's always worked for me...

Hope this helps you out.

Nick

[Mike Null]

Gary

The mug press has a 3.5" heating element and if I don't put the mug and the transfer in right even 1/4" will ruin the mug. I guess my point is that I don't think one is superior to the other because they each have a place and advantages. I have far more luck marketing CLTT products than dye sub products.

Nick

Thanks very much for the tips. I have scrapped my bulk ink system and purchased refillable sponge-less cartridges. I think I'll try your Windex idea in the empty spare that I have.

[Harry Radaza]

guys,

no one has still answered this...

is there a chart or link to somewhere which lists press and temeperature settings for common items like tiles, wood, mouspads, etc.

Can someone help on pressing on plain ordinary tiles. Really need to focus on this process for now. I tried printing on my epson c59 with pigment ink on transfer paper (sold to me by my supplier).

tried on tiles with 200 temp setting and 20 seconds. no good. the ink just wipes off te clear coat of the tiles. AM I WAY OFF MARK with settings and the process or what ?

[Mike Null]

Every setting I have used for sublimation is at 400 degrees F. Times and pressures vary but I think it's more hit or miss. I have not done tile but i belive the temperature is pretty much standard.

[Keith Outten]

Harry,

Jackie and I recently attended a dye-sub workshop in Richmond Virginia. Most of the items that were sublimated during the day long workshop were done at 400 degrees F for 35 seconds. Time duration may vary on some products and are always provided by the supplier per the company that sponsored the workshop.

Dye sublimating Dupont Corian is done at 320 degrees F for 20 minutes.

.

[Mike Null]

This link will take you to several sites but they are run by Alpha Graphics who are very knowledgeable people in dye sublimation.

http://dyesubinks.com/help/index.php?tab=Pressing&helpsel=56&page_from=http://dyesubinks.com/index.php?pageto=cotton.htm

[Gary Hair]

guys,

no one has still answered this...

is there a chart or link to somewhere which lists press and temeperature settings for common items like tiles, wood, mouspads, etc.

Can someone help on pressing on plain ordinary tiles. Really need to focus on this process for now. I tried printing on my epson c59 with pigment ink on transfer paper (sold to me by my supplier).

tried on tiles with 200 temp setting and 20 seconds. no good. the ink just wipes off te clear coat of the tiles. AM I WAY OFF MARK with settings and the process or what ?

I use 400 deg for almost everything and the times vary from 35/40 sec for polyester and t-shirts to 1:10 for aluminum/unisub to 5:00 for tiles. The times manufacturers will give you are guidelines and vary with a lot of factors - ambient temp, humidity, your press, the substrate, the ink, phase of the moon, etc. The two exceptions are PVC and Corian. PVC I press at 300 deg for 35/40 seconds and Corian I have used 325 for 25/30 minutes. I am not too impressed with Corian though, it can scrape off pretty easily.

For 4.25" tiles start with 400 deg and 5:00 with heavy pressure, use the following to adjust.

One piece of advice I got from Kevin Lumberg at Johson Plastics was this:
Watch the black color on the transfer. It it is too light then you need more time. If the edges are sharp then you can press longer, if they are fuzzy then you need to shorten the time. This has worked out very well for me so far.

Gary

[Don Sims]

Harry-
Temperatures are usually set by the manufacturer of the item you are subbing onto. Generally, most temps are going to be in the 375 to 400 range and time is going to be the biggest factor. For example, if you were going to do a ceramic mug, 400 degrees for 4 min, but a stainless mug is 400 for 1 min. unisub metal is 400 for 1 min, but ceramic tile is 7 minutes. Some items you will put the heat to the paper side of the item, some items you will put the heat to the substrate side with paper on the opposite side. You are just going to have to look at the suppliers recommendations and go from there. If you go to http://usa.starlinepacific.com and click on tips and tricks, you can see temps and times. I do dyesub, Laser, vinyl printing/cutting and impact printing, I have a bit of knowledge in all of the areas, kind of a jack of all, master at none kind of thing. Dyesub does have a learning curve, there are little quirks to every substrate, but you pick up on it quickly. Yes, getting started can be spendy. Ink is very expensive to start, but will last awhile once you have bought it. Yes, some items look a little cheesy in my opinion, but others are very nice. You HAVE to have your profiles correct or colors are going to be way off.

I hope I have answered your ?'s for now.

[Harry Radaza]

ok guys. So I need dye sublimation ink which I have a supplier for.

I have a heat press already.

I also need transfer paper right ? The only transfer paper my supplier sold me is for fabric. What specific transfer paper should I use ?

And I need POLYMER coated tiles which are rare I believe, here in the philippines. HOW DO I PUT A POLYMER COAT on tiles ? Isn't Polymer used in auto paints ( If so, then it should be readily available ? ) So what chemicals do I buy and what is the process to coat the tiles with polymer ?

don- thanks for your advice. I am willing to invest the time and money for this as I believe there is a huge market for full colored murals on tiles in my area. Please help. I will have more questions in the next few days.

[Mike Null]

Harry

I believe these people sell a liquid you can apply to substrates to make them receptive to dye sub. Have not used it myself.
http://www.sublimationink.net/bulksystemspecial.html