Drawer Construction question.

[Matt Meiser]

I'm going to be starting on cabinetry for our master bath soon and after a trip to Lowes this evening to look for ideas, we've pretty much decided on a style virtually identical this picture I stole from Merillat

http://www.merillat.com/products/images/masterpiece/dfas/large/Martel/oak-cashmereglaze.jpg

Ideally, I'd like to use 1/4" ply for the door & drawer panels for stability and ease of construction. I'm wondering how the drawer fronts would be mounted to the drawer boxes though since there would be a hollow area behind the panel?

[Jon Farley]

The hollow area between the drawer box and the ply shouldn't be an issue other than maybe having to spring for some machine screws that are a little longer than the ones that come with your hardware. Personally though, I would not use 1/4" ply on door panels.

[Roland Chung]

Try these:

http://www.fastcap.com/prod2.asp?page=kolbemet

I've used them when using a standard shaker type front. On my own kitchen drawerfronts, I ordered the stiles wider than normal and was able to mount them without the Kolbe Korners.

You can also make up the metal sided drawerboxes from Blum and Grass and I think that they might fit without using the KolbeKorners. I know that you would probably want to demonstrate your woodworking skills by making dovetail drawerboxes, but some might just want to get the cabinets in asap. I've used a combination of wood boxes and metal and like them both.

If you plan to use something like the Blum undermount drawer glides, take a look at the metal boxes - I think that they weren't much more expensive than the glides alone - until you start accessorizing them.

[Peter Pedisich]

Matt,

Why not use 1/2" ply and rabbet the back of the panel - it will end up flush with the frame and strong.

Pete

[Jamie Buxton]

Matt --
One way to do what you're considering is to make the drawer box tall enough that both stiles and rails of the drawer front bear on the drawer box. Fasten the drawer front with screws into the stiles and/or rails, and put the knob on the upper rail. No fasteners go through the panel, so it doesn't matter if there is a hollow behind it.

[Matt Meiser]

Personally though, I would not use 1/4" ply on door panels.

Why is that? I'm not talking about BORG plywood


Matt,

Why not use 1/2" ply and rabbet the back of the panel - it will end up flush with the frame and strong.

Pete

I didn't think of that--it sounds like it would work well. And with 1/2", doing solid panels would be reasonable as well.

[Terry Hatfield]

Matt,

I used 1/4" ply for all the doors and drawer fronts on the pantry cabinets and it worked fine. I used a tounge and groove bit set from Woodline that was undersize for the plywood.

I just glued a piece of scrap that I planed to the correct thickness to the inside center of the drawer front to take up the space where the handle mounts.

t

[Az Fred]

Terry gets it.
By applying a scab behind the recessed panel on drawer fronts you also have the availability of enough thickness for drawer front adjusting screws to insure easy alignment on a four sided 1/2" drawer box. I would run oversized stock to accommodate standard 1" drawer front adjustment screws and follow with a 3/4" locking screw. Thicker parts remove screw length issues from the plan.

[Matt Meiser]

MattI used 1/4" ply for all the doors and drawer fronts on the pantry cabinets and it worked fine. I used a tounge and groove bit set from Woodline that was undersize for the plywood.

Terry, was it this one? (http://www.woodline.com/v2/pc-1709-48-2pc-tongue-groove-bit-55mm-for-undersized-plywood-1-12-diameter-1-18-cutting-length-12-shank.aspx)

[Terry Hatfield]

Matt,

Those are them. I got them at the KC woodworking show along with the other bits I used to make the interior dors and such. I was very happy with them. I've made these style doors several other ways...dado in the TS, slot cutter in the router table etc... but this bit set is the way to go IMHO. Setup was quick and easy and the fit was great. Can't go wrong for that money. You will need to make a sled to hold the rails so you can safely and accurately cope the ends but that is a simple and cheap deal.

Here's a pic of the drawers under the window seat just for kicks..

65895

Hope that helps,

t

[Matt Meiser]

Yep, that's pretty much exactly what we are going for, except that I think I'm going to do them Euro-style with no face frames so that I don't have to deal with fitting everything to get the gaps right, only to have them move later.

[Terry Hatfield]

Yep, that's pretty much exactly what we are going for, except that I think I'm going to do them Euro-style with no face frames so that I don't have to deal with fitting everything to get the gaps right, only to have them move later.


That's all part of the fun, Matt!!!! It's cheatin' if you don't have to spend hours fitting the insets. :D

t

[Matt Meiser]

That's all part of the fun, Matt!!!! It's cheatin' if you don't have to spend hours fitting the insets. :D

t


Ok you twisted my arm, I'll let you come up and do it for me. :D

[Terry Hatfield]

Ok you twisted my arm, I'll let you come up and do it for me. :D


Hmmmmmmmmmmm...never mind. Frameless will be fine. :D :D

The inset doors and drawers are a hassle but I do love that look.

t

[Jamie Buxton]

There's an easy way to make doors and drawer fronts like that, particularly with a plywood panel. It is cope-and-stick joinery, but all done on the table saw.

Start by running the dados on the inside edges of all the rails and stiles. The width of the dado is whatever fits your panel. The dados run the full length of all the stock, and therefore can be done on the table saw. Then, still on the table saw, you cut tenons on the ends of the rails. The tenons fit into the dados in the stiles. That's it -- you've cut all the joinery for the door. Cut the plywood to fit, glue everything together, and you're done.

[Dave Sabo]

Do it like the big boys ans screw into the stile or rails. Do use the Fast Cap stuff, makes you look like you just walked off a 30 min. TV show that masquerades as a home improvement show.

[Jim O'Dell]

My reply was going to much more simplistic. :D With face frameless box construction, the drawers will be almost the same width as the fronts. Put your mounting screws to the frame part of the face. If you are using handle hardware, that won't address that issue, but I agree with the others, use 1/2" material so that it is flush in the back, or use a filler piece. Jim.

[Jim Becker]

Couldn't you just move the mounting screws out so that you are catching the stiles? No need to affect the panel, although you may want a shim between the back of the panel and the drawer box where any pulls need to go, if there are going to be pulls.

[Matt Meiser]

Couldn't you just move the mounting screws out so that you are catching the stiles? No need to affect the panel, although you may want a shim between the back of the panel and the drawer box where any pulls need to go, if there are going to be pulls.

Yes there will be pulls, just not quite sure what yet, but I imagine they'll go in the center of the drawers which was my concern when I originally posted. I hadn't thought about attaching the fronts, but yes, I think it will work to do as you suggested since the rails and stiles will be relatively large.

[Jamie Buxton]

Yes there will be pulls, just not quite sure what yet, but I imagine they'll go in the center of the drawers .....

I know that it is common to put drawer pulls on the panel part of a frame-and-panel drawer front, but it just looks strange to me. Perhaps I know too much about how things go together, but I think of the panel in a frame-and-panel door as a floating component. That is, you fundamentally don't know where it is, and you shouldn't be putting things like knobs on it. Yes, I know -- I make panels with plywood and glue 'em in, and there's no structural reason not to put knobs in them. But even so, the plywood panels is trying to emulate the traditional way a door is built, so a knob in it looks strange to me.

[Tim Sproul]

I know that it is common to put drawer pulls on the panel part of a frame-and-panel drawer front, but it just looks strange to me.


I gotta agree with Jamie.

Has the OP considered routing or otherwise shaping some recess on the bottom of the top rail to give fingers some purchase for opening the drawer? You won't really see the recess because the drawers will be waist height or lower....which means you're looking down at the drawer but one's fingers will quickly find the recess as a good means for pulling the drawer open.

[Terry Hatfield]

Let me clartify what I said and did.......

The spacer piece on the back of the panel is specifically so the pull can be screwed to the center of the drawer front with out mashing the panel. The drawer front itself should be attached by screwing thru the drawer box into the stiles. I personally would never put the pull anywhere but in the center of the drawer but that's just me. :)

t

[Byron Trantham]

Matt, I, like Terry, have built many drawers they way you want and "spaced" the back to accommodate the handles. However, you got an answer I never thought of - using 1/2" plywood with a rabbit in the back. When I make doors with 1/4" plywood, I special order "two side good" plywood which is pricey about $50 a sheet. 1/2" plywood cost about the same and I think would give a more "substantial feel" to the door and would negate the need for spacing on drawer fronts. Good question.:D