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Carol VanArnam
06-04-2007, 10:52 PM
I had a laser job last week for an electrician. He needed some tags made for a job he was trying to finish up on. These plastice tags mean things to them and are needed to pass their inspection by the state electrical inspector.

They have standard sizes and colors they use. They will give you the wording for the signs. They also know the code for the colors and sizes they need.

I spent this weekend making a flyer and some samples to mail out to my local contractors. The research I did tells me plumbers, electricians, HVAC installers, fires systems, security systems all use these tags/plates.

They sell for $3-$8 a tag. It's really good money.

I've included my master templates so you can just drop your text on the tags. These are the most common sizes they use. Take a look at the flyer and you will see a list of the most common colors they use.

I've got an order of 40 tags coming next week from a contractor who says it's very hard to find a source for the tags.....

Keith Outten
06-04-2007, 11:27 PM
Carol,

I have been working commercial construction projects at CNU for almost four years and I can verify that there are a lot of tags required for new buildings. The electrical, mechanical, HVAC and plumbing trades are all required to tag their major components, circuits, pumps, valves, etc. Kitchen equipment is another place that requires a lot of tags for dining/commercial restaurants. Safety and fire service equipment is another source for tag work and many buildings will now have a electronic control panel that is usually engraved stainless steel.

As you get acquainted with local construction companies you may also be asked to start providing signs for their new buildings.

.

Mike Null
06-05-2007, 7:30 AM
I get a fair amount of that business but from the people who build control panels for large factory equipment, power plants, oil refineries, theaters, arenas, etc. It is usually people who specialize in these various areas rather than plumbers and electricians that I am getting.

I recently quoted on a large job for a city water plant where 3 large control panels arer being built. Here you have to read the cad drawings and make labels accordingly with few being the same.

Same is true of certain types of military equipment. I haven't been so lucky as to find standard sizes though when they order it may be 20 of a kind or 40.

Ed Maloney
06-05-2007, 8:15 AM
I had a laser job last week for an electrician. He needed some tags made for a job he was trying to finish up on. These plastice tags mean things to them and are needed to pass their inspection by the state electrical inspector.

They have standard sizes and colors they use. They will give you the wording for the signs. They also know the code for the colors and sizes they need.


What type of plastic Carol?

Thad Nickoley
06-05-2007, 9:01 PM
Good evening Carol,

I also have done these tags for electricians. I see that you have some colors that I do not have. What material do you use? Where do you get it? The tags that I have done are the rowmark material but I dont have the wide array of colors that you have.

BTW I love reading your posts, you seem to be pretty smart. I wanted to sat clever just dont know how to spell it.

Laura Zaruba
06-05-2007, 9:53 PM
Carol:

Thanks so much for sharing! I've been trying to create something like this for awhile but haven't found the time to get it just right. Your file is a perfect start!

Laura Zaruba :-)

Carol VanArnam
06-06-2007, 12:58 AM
today I started passing out my flyer and samples. As I'm handing it to an electrician he says "I'll give you my order tomorrow. I've got a job I need tags on..." :) :)

I buy my plastic (1/32, 1/16, and 1/8) from both Romark and IPI. Both stock many many colors. Go to their web pages and order a sample color chart. The chart is great to show the customer because it has specifications on the plastic like how it's rated for indoor/outdoor use, etc.

Thad- all of the colors I listed I get from Romark. I have a local distributor who orders the stuff for me. If you can't get a color you need PM me and I'll give you the name of my dealer. I have to places I get the stuff.

I figured if I did one flyer and mailed it to my local companies I'm out very little but the ink and a stamp. The samples I mailed out were made from drop off from past jobs. Since they are samples it doesn't matter really what color they are. I dropped a few samples off around town at the sign shops. They like to buy wholesale from me. I figure anything they give me will just get my work out there faster for people to see.

Carol VanArnam
06-06-2007, 2:51 AM
http://www.rowmark.com/salestools/Salestools.asp

if you notice they have a pdf downloadable file for all of their stuff.
you can see the colors and get the item numbers for ordering

Cindy Murray
06-06-2007, 10:59 AM
Carol,
I also do mostly industrial work and most of my business is with the electrical business. I only at this point have corel draw 10. Could someone save the file in a lower verison so I could see it. I would like to compare yours to what I have worked up.

Thanks Cindy

Carol VanArnam
06-06-2007, 10:23 PM
Cindy- here you go version 10

Cindy Murray
06-07-2007, 11:32 AM
carol,
I love it. It looks so much better than the one I made up.

Thanks Cindy

Robert Rosensteel
06-09-2007, 9:32 AM
Hi Carol thank you for being so kind with your tag layout.It is really great and has given me a new market to try. I am wondering what would be the easy way to price the different tag size. (tag size, or by letters, sqaure inch?) Thanks Robert

James Rambo
06-09-2007, 11:53 AM
I work at one of the local hospitals and I do a lot of circuit breaker panel labels. We are constantly "under construction" in one area or another. I cant' see your posts (I use C11), I use red, orange, green, and black, for the differnt electrical systems within the hospital. I have also past my bus. card to the contractors doing the work. Most say they do their own. I could use the business so I continue to pass the cards out.

Carol VanArnam
06-09-2007, 6:34 PM
I posted the file in Corel version 10 on 6/6/07

Laura Zaruba
07-03-2007, 3:50 PM
Carol:

Just wanted to thank you once again as I've been trying to find the time to get around to making a flyer like you shared. I tweaked your flyer a bit to fit my needs and sent out a mass mailing to local electricians a couple weeks ago. I took my first order today that more than covered the cost of the mailing!! Hopefully this is the start of many new relationships in a new market for me.

Take care,

Laura

Michael Kowalczyk
07-03-2007, 4:27 PM
Hi Carol,
Thank you for Blessing all of us creekers with your generosity and going the extra mile. I hope you get enough work so you will need to buy another laser or 2 to keep up with it.:)
I may look into it further later but have a really, really big project I am trying to launch now but I still wanted to say thank you.

Frank Defert
07-03-2007, 10:05 PM
Carol,

Thanks so much for sharing! I made a few samples from cutoffs just to see what type of reaction they would generate and at this point all the comments have been positive.
I now need to come up with a pricing formula for this product. For those of you that make and sell this item how much can I expect to charge? Cost of materials, textured or smooth, with or without self adhesive? Laser run time and set up?
Any information, suggestions or experiences greatly appreciated.

Thanks....Frank

Tim Baude
07-03-2007, 11:07 PM
Carol,
I am starting my own engraving business and have had several electricians tell me they will give me their business. One estimates he spends 2-3k per year on tags...he is a big contractor. What size sheets does the plastic come in. I am purchasing an Epilog 24 Helix. I should be up and running in about a month. Any information you could give would be appreciated.
Thanks
Tim

Bill Cunningham
07-03-2007, 11:44 PM
Want another weird use for these?

I make them for Square Dancers! They call them 'dangles' and hook them, with a small wire, to the bottom of their name tags and they collect them. Each 'dangle' design is made to commemorate a particular competition..

Carol VanArnam
07-04-2007, 1:31 AM
I just got another order for 30 tags at $5 each. So for about $8 worth of plastic I just made $150. I'm getting more and more repeat business because I'm fast and I stock the colors the electricians want. I've got an 80 tag order coming in next week.

Like I said I mailed a flyer and a couple samples to about 10 local large electrical companies. So for a stamp and some samples it's really paid off.

Another SMC member emailed me last week said he got a 100 tag order off of this thread and mailing out a flyer. :) :) :)

Carol VanArnam
07-04-2007, 1:36 AM
Carol,
I am starting my own engraving business and have had several electricians tell me they will give me their business. One estimates he spends 2-3k per year on tags...he is a big contractor. What size sheets does the plastic come in. I am purchasing an Epilog 24 Helix. I should be up and running in about a month. Any information you could give would be appreciated.
Thanks
Tim

Tim- plastic comes in 2' x 4' sheets. They usually will sell you 1/4 sheets (12" x 24"). In my part of the company a 1/4 sheet costs about $10-$12. There are 2 main companies that sell it IPI and Rowmark.

Electricians use just a few main colors so stock up on those and you will be off and running.

Jim Watkins
07-04-2007, 10:40 AM
Thanks for the help Carol.

Just a quick question...

When I went to open up the CDR file, I got a font replacement message.

Is the font critical to these tags or can any typical "Aerial or NTR" be acceptable?

THanks again.

Mike Null
07-04-2007, 12:09 PM
If it's critical your customer will tell you. Most that I make use Arial or Arial Narrow.

Carol VanArnam
07-04-2007, 4:54 PM
Thanks for the help Carol.

Just a quick question...

When I went to open up the CDR file, I got a font replacement message.

Is the font critical to these tags or can any typical "Aerial or NTR" be acceptable?

THanks again.

Jim- asking the customer if they have a special requirement is the best answer. If they say no then I use a "block" font like ariel because in my state the electrical code (law) says it must be a block font. The size of the letter can be an issue- in my state the letters need to be 1/4" for most signs. Always ask the customer to be safe....

Scott Shepherd
07-04-2007, 5:18 PM
These type of tags are perfect for print merge as well. That's how I've been doing them since I learned how to do the print merge.

Sometimes I even get the list in excel, emailed, which is even easier.

If you haven't taken the time to learn that tool, search for tutorial from Roy Brewer on how to do it. It works a real treat. These things are easy money.

Carol VanArnam
07-04-2007, 5:42 PM
Scott- I'll give you my dog, my 10 pound box of chocolate, all my power tools and my first born child if you help me figure out how to us print merge. It looks so easy but my four year college degree has failed me because I still can't figure it out.

Stephen Beckham
07-04-2007, 6:58 PM
I've only tried a couple times - and unfortunatly while in a time crunch. Now that I'm not busy at the office I know I should try again. But alas, I won't until I need 50 rascals with sequenced number or different names - then I'll try again. It's a vicious circle.:mad:

OT - I did learn how to use the X3 trace function today from reading over the other posts - I'm going to watch this one and read the crib notes...:)

Scott Shepherd
07-04-2007, 8:16 PM
Carol, have you tried going through Roy's tutorials on it yet? It took me quite a few tries and when I finally got it to work, I realized that I had skipped a step. I'll be more than glad to help, just let me know if you've looked through those tutorials yet so I have a reference place to start in helping.

Mike Null
07-05-2007, 8:05 AM
Carol

Here's the link to Roy's tutorials.

http://www.engravingconcepts.com/flash_coreldraw.htm

Bob Cole
08-20-2007, 12:56 AM
Do the contractors provide their own adhesion or do they use the cutout holes? Do you supply the double-sided stick tape if that is used?

I was looking at some of the tags on an electrical box and it looked like the tags are beveled. Do you bevel yours?

Mike Null
08-20-2007, 6:29 AM
I supply and apply the tape. It takes a little time and you should use good stuff so your customer doesn't have to worry about it.

You can buy the plastic with the tape applied; just ask Johnson Plastics ro JDS to do it for you.

There is an outdoor version of the plastic available at a slightly higher price so if your customer will be using these labels outside be sure to get the right stuff for them.

By the way, my customers are factories or companies who build control panels rather than contractors. If you have boat builders or ship builders in your area they use thousands of these items.

Abdul Baseer Hai
08-20-2007, 10:48 AM
I still have'nt seen any comments on how to price these tags.
Carol, maybe you can help.
abdul

Mike Null
08-20-2007, 12:07 PM
Abdul

My 1/2" x 1 3/4" is $1.75 with one line of copy. 3/4" x 2 1/4" is 2.25 with one line of copy, my legend plates are $2.75. All with adhesive. I charge $0.20 extra for beveling.

I just received a rather large order and will buy pre-applied adhesive just to save time. It costs .02 per sq. inch.

I will be able to import all copy using a macro.

Abdul Baseer Hai
08-20-2007, 3:22 PM
thanks mike
abdul

Carol VanArnam
08-20-2007, 9:40 PM
I just missed out on a $4500 plastic tag sale. The electrician had just placed the order with another guy in town. He said he would have asked me but didn't know I was in town.... I will be sending more samples and flyers ASAP to all of the electrical companies in town.

Since posting this I've had several big sales $200-$300 but $4500 would have been very nice....

Abdul- email me with your email address and I'll send you my price list....

Keith Outten
08-21-2007, 6:09 AM
For what its worth...

Our states power company has announced that they expect to have a permit for the construction of North Anna 3 Nuclear Power Station by the end of this year. Other states are rumored to also be considering nuclear power plant construction projects.

This is pertinent because nuclear plants require massive numbers of tags and signs. The equipment for each plant is generally made all over the country so you can expect to see a huge spike in work requests from manufacturers in your area starting the middle of next year.

Do some homework, some tags will need to be made from special plastic that is resistant to neutron radiation, various chemicals and there will be lots of anodized aluminum and stainless steel tags required for equipment. I spent many years working at various power plants and never saw a plant construction project that had its own sign shop, they were using outside vendors.

A ten to twelve year construction project with a budget of ten billion dollars means a lot of sign work folks :)

Ed Lang...NA3 is right in your back yard you lucky dog :)

.

George Elston
08-21-2007, 9:03 AM
Thank you Carol, I too used your flyer and still need to take it to more companies, but I have gotten a bit of work and more is coming in. I have a job today for 250 plaques for a local artist, with 250 more in a month or two. I finally worked out a pricing matrix that seems to work, and fits close to the prices you mentioned for the sizes listed on the flyer. I figure the square inches multiply by .8 and add 1. So a 2x3 tag would be 6 square inches, 6x.8=4.8 add 1 and the price is $5.80. This is retail and I can give a 30% discount to jobbers and still make a profit. One other point I have found is that if the tags are for exterior use, (UV resistant) I should add a little more. They take 2 light cuts with my 30 W laser, to get a nice clean image.

One other thing I do is pick up cheap juice glasses and engrave some info with our company name and drop it off with the samples etc. They never loose my "Business Card".

This is a great market, and good luck to all.

Chuck Mitchell
03-02-2008, 8:24 PM
Carol...how is this end of the business going...I have often wanted to jump into the is avenue...but can never find the time among all the other irons in the fire!!!

AL Ursich
03-02-2008, 8:55 PM
Fire Dept Accountability Tags could be a market for you. I am just finishing a tag order today.

This picture shows 2 colors of green tags due to a printer problem. Printed the 89 replacements last night and drilled and dipped them in poly finishing at 3 AM. Put grommets in today and they are ready for delivery tomorrow.

Sublimated them. Green you are qualified to go into a burning building and white and red still training. They clip one on a Chief's Clipboard at the fire and as they go into a burning building they put another tag on another clipboard.

I have done them in metal and plastic. All the signs were done in Sublimation but could be done in Laser too.

Going to put some signs out like Carrol.

AL

AL Ursich
03-02-2008, 9:08 PM
Some more sign ideas.... The small silver tags are sink and bathroom number tags to assist maintenance. Coded with floor and fixture #

AL

AL Ursich
03-02-2008, 9:21 PM
Some other ideas. Go after the Tourist Market....

AL

Tony Lenkic
03-02-2008, 10:49 PM
Al,

How are you doing those plates on XOT912 machine?
Looks that you pre cut and bevel them before engraving.
There is simpler way of doing miltiple plates on full bed size of machine and with grid cutout option you will cut and bevel in one shot.
Let me know if you need more info on how to. It can speed up your process quiet a bit.

Gregg Vaughn
03-04-2008, 11:30 AM
Carol,

Very nice work and presented very nicely! What have you done for the customers who want adhesive tags? Is there a double faced product out there that allows the tags to be a peel-and-stick? Can you vector cut the double faced product (if there is one) on the Rowmark?

Have you found LaserMax to be your product of choice, or something else?

Again, very nice work and thanks for sharing it with us!

Scott Shepherd
03-04-2008, 1:14 PM
Gregg, some places offer the same materials with the adhesive backing already on. You just have to ask. I know GravoGraph products are available like that.

I don't use their material, but I do use their adhesive sheets. They come in 12" squares, a pack of 10 or 12. You just peel it back, put it on, squeegie and put it in the laser.

When you're done, you have the finished product with the adhesive back already on it. You can order it online, but I think there is a $50 minimum on web orders. I do think you can phone the order in and get around that. I'm not positive about that, but I seem to recall something stupid like that going on.

AL Ursich
03-04-2008, 1:52 PM
Tony,

I only have about 2 hours of engrave time with the 912, a very underutilized machine in my shop. I would love to pick your brain for tips using the 912. The tags I did were 2 sided reflective vinyl on a plastic carrier. Was trying a version of the Fire Accountability Tags. They scuffed and scratched too easy. A coating of Poly would have helped.

I cut them on my table saw with a tripple cut 60 tooth blade and a sled.

The other tags I did were Sublimation dipped in poly, delivered last night.

Thanks for the offer, mastering the 912 is on my list of things to do.

AL

Bob Cole
03-07-2008, 9:06 PM
Gregg,

Check with the supplier. I've ordered from Johnson Plastics Rowmark Lasermark and Lasermax and they have no problem adding the adhesive. Last I checked, I think it is $3 per 12x24 sheet for adhesive (last invoice has 3m 467MP). Please check current pricing in their catalog. Ordering on the web, just put what you want with adhesive in the notes section and it magically arrives with adhesive:D

I didn't need to change my settings to go through the paper/adhesive.

Pat Shirkey
09-04-2008, 2:46 PM
Carol
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!! We have an electrical contracting company and these are what got me started in this about 3 months ago. I have been trying to do something like this to send to the other contractors in our area (a lot of whom started here with us!), along with the plumbers, etc. I have been lurking and learning at the Creek and am amazed at all the information that everyone SOOOOO generously gives!! YOU GUYS ARE THE GREATEST. Thanks to all who are helping me to learn all the ins and outs.

David Dustin
09-06-2008, 8:54 AM
Carol,
Do you cut out samples or just provide them with a color print-out?

Thanks,
David

(And thanks for the tremendous resourse!)

Larry Bratton
09-06-2008, 9:25 AM
I just finished up on 300 tags for gas meters in an apartment complex, $6.00 a pop. I used 1/8" Rowmark Metalgraph Plus-Stainless/Black. It engraved and cut nicely. I made a template that works with 24x24 sheets of the plastic for the layout. These tags were 1-1/2" x 3". They had to have the Building address and apartment number on them. Those tags will pay my mortgage payment this month as the material investment is quite small. I advise anybody with a laser to pursue this market.

Margaret Turco
09-06-2008, 4:03 PM
I am getting a corrupted file message with both versions of Carol's cdr files. I right clicked and Save As. Anybody know what I might be doing wrong? I have coreldraw 12. Thank you!

Frank Corker
09-06-2008, 5:33 PM
Margaret, can you update your signature with a few things to help others to help you.. what version of Corel are you using? Also the type of laser that you have. This is the same file in version 9. Also the same file in a zipped format in case your internet explorer is blocking you.

Larry Bratton
09-06-2008, 6:22 PM
Carol,
I am starting my own engraving business and have had several electricians tell me they will give me their business. One estimates he spends 2-3k per year on tags...he is a big contractor. What size sheets does the plastic come in. I am purchasing an Epilog 24 Helix. I should be up and running in about a month. Any information you could give would be appreciated.
Thanks
Tim
Tim:
Go to http://www.rowmark.com/laser/Laser_Engravable_Materials.asp They are the main manufacturer of laserable plastic. Many of us use Rowmark materials. Good luck.

Margaret Turco
09-06-2008, 7:19 PM
Frank,

Thank you for the files! I will give that a try when I have access to Corel again. I found the edit signatures area, should work now.

Frank Defert
09-09-2008, 1:13 AM
First off I want to say thank you to Carol for all that she has done for me and everyone else who make tags of all descriptions. She has given unselfishly of her time and her knowledge and that has enabled me to build my tag business. I owe her a big thank you. THANK YOU CAROL.

I have been asked to submit a proposal to provide operational / instructional placards for an industrial equipment manufacturer. These units are built in several plants around the world and then sold all over the world.

These placards will be made from Rowmark 1/8 textured plastic with self adhesive backing, may contain mounting holes and up to several lines of text, possibly in several languages.

Currently I make placards like these at the retail level for local customers and enjoy moderate success. I just don't know how low to go to capture what would be a large wholesale account without getting ahead of myself.

So what I am asking then is how much would you charge for a tag using 1/8 Rowmark type plastic, self adhesive, and 4 mounting holes that is say 2in X 3in with several lines of text. Retail cost and then how do you calculate wholesale, volume wholesale and finally how low would you go?

I will recieve more information in the following weeks as to quantities, shipping, and terms. I just wanted to get insight from the Creek so I am prepared. If they don't use these tags they will simply stay with labels.

Thanks to all for advice, comments and insight.

Frank

Zeev Goldin
09-22-2008, 6:54 PM
Hi.
A question please.So when I mail this package with the flyer and the samples to the electric companies to who in the company would be the one to make the decision?
I guess I am asking to who should I mail this package?