New Jet Saw Model 708100

[Ed Blough]

Has anyone seen the new Jet contractor saw yet?
Before the mighty among us stand up and piously point out it comes with stamped steel wings and heaven forbide a non beismeyer fence, I wonder if anyone has actually examined the machine?

I haven't had a chance to get over to Woodcraft but I talked to a salesman and he was fairly impressed with the machine. Unlike most contractor saws the motor is contained inside the body of the saw.

No it is not direct drive it uses a belt system.

The blade itself is enclosed to aid in dust collection. I asked about the fence and the salesman felt it was quite nice even though it wasn't a beismeyer, using the same principals and rigid enough.

Woodcraft has the saw on sale for $449 and without seeing it I think this may be a real sign of the times. Finally a major manufacture is listening to the public and concerning itself with dust collection and footprint of the saw.

I would like to hear from anyone that has actually seen the saw. How is the arbor assembly? What do the trunions look like. How about the splitter/blade guard?
Thanks for any feed back.

[Phil Thien]

Tis a hybrid in a contractor package. The trunions are table-mounted. The blade shroud is nicely done. No allowances for a splitter, though, and the stock fence is pretty cheap.

In the final analysis, though, I think I would take this Jet against the Sears zipcode saws just because I like the superior dust collection and I can upgrade the fence.

Amazon has the saw, BTW, and the manual is on Amazon's page (a PDF file) if you'd like to read more about it.

[Ed Blough]

Phil
Thanks for the info. I agree I would buy just about anything before I bought a zipcode saw. However that is just my tastes.

What I'm excited about is that Jet has finally decided to remake the contractor saw. After years and years of the same product with little or no change (only increasing prices) we are now beginning to see manufactures going back to the drawing board and begin to incorporate changes users have been asking for. Even Delta did some minor/major changes to it's latest contractor saw. Left tilt, mobile base, and an option to buy it without a fence.

Perhaps the slow down in buying is sending a message.




Tis a hybrid in a contractor package. The trunions are table-mounted. The blade shroud is nicely done. No allowances for a splitter, though, and the stock fence is pretty cheap.

In the final analysis, though, I think I would take this Jet against the Sears zipcode saws just because I like the superior dust collection and I can upgrade the fence.

Amazon has the saw, BTW, and the manual is on Amazon's page (a PDF file) if you'd like to read more about it.

[Mike Heidrick]

Have you boys ever checked out a Zipcode 22124 up close? Cabinet mouned trunnions, CI tables with out feed table ledge, and a true Bies and 6 months ago they could be had for $699 or less during a sale!!?? These saws were some of the best saw for the buck untill the 3hp $899 Uni hit Amazon. I would take a 22124 over what was described here anyday. Just my opinion.

[Randy Denby]

Run that zipcode saw all the way to the 45deg stop and then watch the sheetmetal deform/flex on the side from the pressure...as the tilt keeps going against the "stop". Not a very good stop if it dont stop.

[Ed Blough]

Have you boys ever checked out a Zipcode 22124 up close? Cabinet mouned trunnions, CI tables with out feed table ledge, and a true Bies and 6 months ago they could be had for $699 or less during a sale!!?? These saws were some of the best saw for the buck untill the 3hp $899 Uni hit Amazon. I would take a 22124 over what was described here anyday. Just my opinion.

You haven't been "had" by Sears yet but you will!

I guess we can forget about the reports of the broken trunions and cabinets that flex with the adjustments, and arbor runout.

Also what is the saw really worth? $1000? $800? $600? Less? Who knows Sears will sale if for any price which tells me they are buying if for lot less than their lowest price.

Lastly I wasn't saying this saw was the finest in group, I was commenting that the manufactures are finally beginning to step out of the box and building something designed in the in 21 century.

[Kyle Kraft]

Forgive me if this is hijacking, but what is a "zipcode saw"??

[scott spencer]

Forgive me if this is hijacking, but what is a "zipcode saw"??

It's an Orion made Craftsman hybrid with model numbers that resemble a zipcode...ie: 22104, 22114, and 22124. Steel City owns Orion, and their hybrids are similar to the Craftsman saws.

Craftsman 22124:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/22124.jpg
Steel City 35601:
http://steelcitytoolworks.com/products/35601/35601_closeup.jpg

I've been following the the 708100 since it's introduction, and have seen the schematics and pics on their website. From that perspective, it looks like a nice saw for $400-$450 (Amazon has it for $400 plus s/h). It has built in wheels too. Would love to see cast iron wings, but a decent hybrid at that price point is a good buy IMO if it works as anticipated. The feedback I've read from owners have been positive so far.

As far as I can tell, it's very similar to the new GI 50-090K, but the GI comes with a roll away stand.
http://www.general.ca/machines/gi/50/g_50090k.jpg
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41RXNA7PMGL._SS500_.jpg

[Phil Thien]

Have you boys ever checked out a Zipcode 22124 up close? Cabinet mouned trunnions, CI tables with out feed table ledge, and a true Bies and 6 months ago they could be had for $699 or less during a sale!!?? These saws were some of the best saw for the buck untill the 3hp $899 Uni hit Amazon. I would take a 22124 over what was described here anyday. Just my opinion.


I like the ZC saws. But, the blade shroud and trunnions on the Jet are just very smartly designed. If they had accomodated a riving knife, I'd own a Jet.

[Ed Blough]

Tis a hybrid in a contractor package. The trunions are table-mounted. The blade shroud is nicely done. No allowances for a splitter, though, and the stock fence is pretty cheap.

In the final analysis, though, I think I would take this Jet against the Sears zipcode saws just because I like the superior dust collection and I can upgrade the fence.

Amazon has the saw, BTW, and the manual is on Amazon's page (a PDF file) if you'd like to read more about it.

Phil
Can you supply a link? I have been unable to find any link to PDF file for the Jet saw on Amazon.
Amazon always confuses me, I have found the saw listed twice for two different prices and I don't understand that. One listing is found using the model number and the other is going to Amazon, tools, tablesaws and looking at the jet saw.

But neither has a link to a pdf file that I can find and I clicked on everything clickable. :confused:
Ed

[Kyle Kraft]

Thanks Scott....answered my question.

[Tom Henderson2]

try the Jet site for pdfs --
http://www.jettools.com/Shop/index.cfm?navPage=4&iid=6056005

[Mike Heidrick]

You haven't been "had" by Sears yet but you will!

I guess we can forget about the reports of the broken trunions and cabinets that flex with the adjustments, and arbor runout.

Also what is the saw really worth? $1000? $800? $600? Less? Who knows Sears will sale if for any price which tells me they are buying if for lot less than their lowest price.

Lastly I wasn't saying this saw was the finest in group, I was commenting that the manufactures are finally beginning to step out of the box and building something designed in the in 21 century.

I was not directing the comments at you but rather pointing out other options and letting people know some of the benefits of a zipcode. When on sale 3/4 of the price is in the Bies fence alone.

Sears pricing to me is a local store variable. A manager can take a sale, apply member discounts, and stack percentage off coupons - that is done at the local level. The $699 pricing was a factor of the retail management and not the tool manufacturing. Amazon deals are products of the same situation. They price what they want when they want with no regards to what other sellers are doing.

Too be honest this is the first I had heard of those issue on the zipcode and those are very serious so I am glad that was brought to light. I know a bunch of people had bought them but had not heard about these issues. Is it a common problem?

Very true as well on the new design. Point taken.

[scott spencer]

I was not directing the comments at you but rather pointing out other options and letting people know some of the benefits of a zipcode. When on sale 3/4 of the price is in the Bies fence alone.

Sears pricing to me is a local store variable. A manager can take a sale, apply member discounts, and stack percentage off coupons - that is done at the local level. The $699 pricing was a factor of the retail management and not the tool manufacturing. Amazon deals are products of the same situation. They price what they want when they want with no regards to what other sellers are doing.

Too be honest this is the first I had heard of those issue on the zipcode and those are very serious so I am glad that was brought to light. I know a bunch of people had bought them but had not heard about these issues. Is it a common problem?

Very true as well on the new design. Point taken.


Mike - FWIW, it's the first time I've heard of those issues too. I haven't experienced any of them with my 22124, and I haven't read about them from other owners either. I try to keep up with the threads on the "zipcode saws", but it's possible I missed it. They've sold alot of those saws, so it's possible some had isolated issues, but not likely that it's a systemic problem. The most common issue I've read about with the 22124 is with the laminated Biesemeyer extension warping, which is a result of it's construction and showed up on many saws that featured that extension regardless of brand. I've also read of some fence issues on the 22104/22114, and some that needed the trunnion holes reamed out a bit for better adjustibility.

[Randy Denby]

Run that zipcode saw all the way to the 45deg stop and then watch the sheetmetal deform/flex on the side from the pressure...as the tilt keeps going against the "stop". Not a very good stop if it dont stop.

I realized my mistake when seeing the pics....so I need to correct myself. I do not having any experience with the new hybrid saws. They are built different than my '99 model sears contractor saw....so my statement probably doesnt apply. Sorry if I worried anyone needlessly.

[Ed Blough]

I was not directing the comments at you but rather pointing out other options and letting people know some of the benefits of a zipcode. When on sale 3/4 of the price is in the Bies fence alone.

Sears pricing to me is a local store variable. A manager can take a sale, apply member discounts, and stack percentage off coupons - that is done at the local level. The $699 pricing was a factor of the retail management and not the tool manufacturing. Amazon deals are products of the same situation. They price what they want when they want with no regards to what other sellers are doing.

Too be honest this is the first I had heard of those issue on the zipcode and those are very serious so I am glad that was brought to light. I know a bunch of people had bought them but had not heard about these issues. Is it a common problem?

Very true as well on the new design. Point taken.

Mike
First on the zipcode saws, let me admit it up front I have been burned too many times by Sears to buy anything from them, therefore I tend to find things wrong with Sears products easier than I do say something sold at Woodcraft.

I'm certain the problems reported with the zipcode saws are one time and probably shipping problems rather than actual design problems. That said I do see some serious design flaws in the zipcode saws.

To me how the saw is manufactured between the trunions if far more important than where the trunions mount. All trunions do is support the structure that holds the blade arbor and allow for it to tilt over to bevel.This arbor support is far more important to me than the trunions that hold it up. Any movement/give/vibration here will get transmitted to the arbor and eventually to the blade. In fact because this structure runs front to back its length tends to amplify any movement.

On the Zipcode saws like most Contractor saws this structure that actually supports the arbor is multi pieced, multi material, multi assemblied structure. Unlike cabinet saws in which this is a usually a massive one piece casting Zipcode and most Contractor saws use steel bars/pipes pressed/rivet/bolted/ into end caps that are then hung from the trunions itself. The arbor can be attached to the bar/pipes again either with bolts/ pressure fit or riveted. If any of this comes loose,slips or twists it will immediately and dramatically effect the arbor.

In the past people complained that contractor saws kept loosing their alignment. In fact most of your "expert" saw books recommend not tilting the blade of the saw but to use a jig instead. This is because when you crank in the bevel on contractor saws the bar/pipes tended to rack a little as they resisted moving. This racking translated to "heeling" (blade out of parallel with blade) when tilted to an angle. The problem was wrongly contributed to the trunions slipping since the most intruitive fix was to move the trunions to put the blade back in parallel. However the actual problem would come back over and over because of the bar/tube racking.

Delta finally included a fix for this in their contractors manual.

Closer manufacturing tolerances and better fastners have delayed the onset of the this problem in most new saws. However the dynamics are still at work and eventually these bar/tubes become loose and the problem rears it's ugly head.

Therefore before I bought any saw I would look to see how the arbor is suspended between the trunions. If it was tube/bar and I was fairly advanced in years I would probably buy it. :rolleyes: However if I was under 40 and intended to use the saw the rest of my life I wouldn't touch it on a bet.

Now to the Jet, I was wondering how it's arbor was supported? Also I was excited to see something "different" being done by manufactures who up until recently have made the same tired 50-100 year old engineered tools they always have. There are new materials, new construction techniques, new user concerns, new ideas out there but it seemed the manufactures simply ignored them and pushed their tired old designs. Then Dewalt came out with the 746 an exciting machine, then the hybreds, and now this machine.

I was hoping someone had looked inside and was going to tell me they never saw an arbor supported this way and I was going to get real excited. However, apparently no one has inspected the saw this close so I will have to make a trip to Woodcraft and look for myself. :)

[Jim Becker]

Ed, if you go to the Jet site, you can download the user manual and examine the parts diagram in the back to investigate the whole trunion/arbor setup.

[Ed Blough]

Ed, if you go to the Jet site, you can download the user manual and examine the parts diagram in the back to investigate the whole trunion/arbor setup.

Jim
I found they require you to regisiter before you can go to the product manual and I consider that another way of collecting names to SPAM people. If nothing else it is an invasion of my privacy and for that reason I'm quickly losing interest in the saw.

I know just give them a fake username, but it's the principal.

Why should I have to play some silly game just to look at some product information. When you walk into a store you don't have to regisiter why here? So they can SPAM me!

[Bill Wyko]

This powermatic is on sale at woodworkers source for 699.00 with the biesemeyer style 52 inch fence. It's not quite assembled in the pic though.

[Jim Becker]

I found they require you to regisiter before you can go to the product manual and I consider that another way of collecting names to SPAM people. If nothing else it is an invasion of my privacy and for that reason I'm quickly losing interest in the saw.

Sorry, it was not that way a couple weeks ago when I first looked up that machine and actually viewed the manual PDF...and I didn't save it for obvious reasons. They made another mistake...the site doesn't support FireFox properly, either...

[Ed Blough]

Bob Huffman sent me a copy of the manual and looking at it I see the arbor support called center trunion is one piece. To me this makes this saw a standout in the arena of new saws. Unlike most contractor and hybred saws that use multipiece trunion supports that utilize bars/tubes this is a cast piece patterned after the superior cabinet saw design.

For $449 on sale a Woodcraft I would think anyone in the market for a saw would/should consider this saw. Even with hundreds of dollars of add ons you will spend less and end up with a saw far superior to many hybreds that are being touted here as excellent. Plus you have Jet behind it.