Stanley #3 Dating Question

[Rob Luter]

Greetings to all,

I found a nice little #3 smoother at the junktique shop this weekend. Not a showpiece, but a good user. I'm trying to estimate the age but have been thrown for a loop by a missing feature.

Using the Stanley Plane Dating Page (http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/dating/main.html) and keying on no patent numbers, large brass adjuster, the marking on the iron, the kidney shaped cap iron hole, and rosewood knob and tote (tote with requisite crack repair) and some other details I find that it's likely not any older than a type 16, but the cast "broad, flat, rib" feature is missing around the toe and there is no frog adjuster. There is a rib cast behing the knob that runs across the width of the bed. Where one would expect a frog adjuster, there's nothing. No holes (tapped or otherwise) or area's that would logically have hole placed in them. I suppose this could be a mongrel of some kind. There is a number "16" stamped into the top of the tote, likely by the school system that bought it for their woodworking program (my school did the same thing).

Anybody seen a type 16 #3 without a frog adjuster?

Thanks for any feedback. Pics will be posted after I get home from work.

[James Owen]

Greetings to all,

I found a nice little #3 smoother at the junktique shop this weekend. Not a showpiece, but a good user. I'm trying to estimate the age but have been thrown for a loop by a missing feature.

Using the Stanley Plane Dating Page (http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/dating/main.html) and keying on no patent numbers, large brass adjuster, the marking on the iron, the kidney shaped cap iron hole, and rosewood knob and tote (tote with requisite crack repair) and some other details I find that it's likely not any older than a type 16, but the cast "broad, flat, rib" feature is missing around the toe and there is no frog adjuster. There is a rib cast behing the knob that runs across the width of the bed. Where one would expect a frog adjuster, there's nothing. No holes (tapped or otherwise) or area's that would logically have hole placed in them. I suppose this could be a mongrel of some kind. There is a number "16" stamped into the top of the tote, likely by the school system that bought it for their woodworking program (my school did the same thing).

Anybody seen a type 16 #3 without a frog adjuster?

Thanks for any feedback. Pics will be posted after I get home from work.

Rob,

Does it have a "Made in USA" notation on the casting behind the frog? If so, it may be a WWII vintage plane. Some of them were made with a large brass adjusting wheel (not the usual Bakelite adjusting knob) and without a frog adjusting mechanism.

If there are no markings at all (or just the size marked behind the tote) on the casting behind the frog, you probably have a Frankenplane, with a pre-1902 casting (since the large adjusting wheels didn't appear until about 1919), and newer frog, lever cap, etc.

If it's in nice shape, it should still make a very fine user.

[Rob Luter]

It does say "Made in USA" behind the frog, but planes as old as Type 15 had this too. The "No." and "3" are on either side of the knob at the toe and "Bailey" is behind the knob up against a casting rib. Some of the research materials I turned up suggested that when it comes to War Years planes, all bets were off with respect to dating by feature. I guess they used up old surplus parts as well as mixed and matched whenever it made sense. I like that the knob and tote aren't the painted Alder or whatever hardwood they used instead of the standard Rosewood on this plane. I need to take it apart again and compare castings to some pictures I found on the Blood and Gore page. I suspect that the frog and bed were cast at the same time/place. They each have the letter "U" foundry mark in the casting.

It does promise to be a good user, although whoever sharpened the iron the last time should receive a sound thrashing. It looks like they used a coarse bench grinder wheel and it has so much camber you'd think they were using it for a scrub plane (maybe they were). It's going to cost about 1/8" of iron to get it sharpened right. I got a good start on fixing it last night and managed to take a few thin curls from some edge grain with the center 1/2 of the blade. I should get it finished tonight. I'll likely get a new blade anyway but I like a challenge.

[Bob Hallowell]

personaly I would let my #3 date, it might find another plane it really likes and multiply! ;)

sorry,
Bob

[Rob Luter]

That would sure save me some money :D

[Walt Quadrato]

Stanley never made planes by our dating/typing system. there are plenty of "in transition" plane made (between types with features of both)..I've seen T-16's with rosewood knob & tote and brass nuts and a blade dated to the 2nd quarter of 1941 but with the hard rubber frog adjusting nut..

as they ran out of old parts or started to incorporate new design features they began replacing parts on the lines..they all fit, no matter what era except for the major frog design changes..

your 3 could be a late T-16..or early T-17...

got a picture of the frog and the bed?


walt Q

[Rob Luter]

Hi Walt,

Thanks for the input. I've been strapped for time and haven't got any pics taken yet. Perhaps tonight after I cut and bale the lawn :eek:.

As an addendum to an earlier comment..... A close look reveals that not only the frog and bed have a cast in "U" foundry mark, but the back of the cap iron as well.