6” PVC questions

[Wes Billups]

I have got a few questions for those of you who have used 6” PVC for dust collection. I’ve finished moving all of my equipment into my shop and need to get the piping installed along with a bunch of other final punch list items.

I’ve looked locally and it appears Lowe’s carries the 6” S&D pipe and fittings but it is very expensive, 6” wye is about $20. They also only carry the green version of the pipe. For appearance reasons I’d like to be able to use white pipe.

I’ve looked in McMaster-Carr and they carry white pipe as well as fittings, their prices don’t seem too bad either. A 6” wye is $12 and 6” pipe is $2.60/ft. I’m guessing shipping will be a killer with McMaster-Carr.

Before I check on shipping from McMaster-Carr, does anyone in central Ohio (Columbus vicinity) know of a place that sells 6” S&D? I plan on calling some plumbing supply houses over lunch. Though in the past they’ve not been much help.

Metal isn’t an option as I’m going to need at least 7-6” wyes and I’m hoping to keep my total cost under $300.

I’d also like some recommendations on sources for 6” flexible hose for connecting the PVC to each machine.

Thanks in advance,
Wes Billups

P.S. I’ve got an idea for using plastic bags in the bin under my cyclone that won’t require a system similar to the bag gripper. Once I get the bin modified I’ll post pictures as my idea should be very simple for most people to retrofit their own systems.

[Chris Merriam]

Down here In Lexington, KY I got all of mine from Ferguson HVAC. I'd recommend checking your local HVAC dealers. Make sure you know what type of PVC you are asking for! Lowes carries SD 40 pipe and fittings, which is the thick and heavy stuff. You can find cheaper and thinner SD 35 or ideally 2729 that is the cheapest of all. You cannot mix fittings between thick and thin either.

I ordered my Jet flex hose from Amazon. Get ready to pay through the nose wherever you order from. Costs 4 or 5 bucks a foot.

[Matt Meiser]

Wes, try Carter Lumber. The one in Monroe, MI carries all of the pipe and fittings so I would assume any of them either have them or can get them. I didn't look up if there was one in Marysville, but I know there is one in Newark, so they have at least one store in the general area.

[Yuchol Kim]

Repeating what others said, make sure you know what fittings to ask for. The thin wall pipes are series 2729. You have to buy thin wall fittings to fit them. Sewer and drain fittings will NOT fit them. Ask for thin wall or series 2729.

[Dave Sweeney]

Sewer & Drain(S&D) and SDR35 & 40 pipe are both made to the same outside dimensions and their fittings are interchangeable. What will not work with S&D and SDR pipe is Sch 40 DWV fittings just as Sch 40 DWV pipe will not work with S&D and SDR fittings.

[Jim O'Dell]

All of my fittings say SD 2729 and 3034 on the stamp. I understand the 3034 is smaller ID but the same OD as the 2729, so use the same fittings. None of my fittings have the same ID as the pipe. While that bugs the part of me that is, well, I won't say that here :eek: , the practical side of me says it's all right, and would probably cost 10 times as much if the fittings were pipe specific. I doubt that the turbulance induced is enough to measure. Jim.

[Mike Leggett]

Wes, I got white 6" PVC S&D from US Plastics (http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.asp). You are right shipping is a killer, but they are located in Lima, Ohio, if that is close to you, you might be able to avoid the charges.

Mike

[Doug Shepard]

The brand of PVC and fittings I got at my local place was Crestline. You might try contacting them to see what dealers in your area carry their stuff. Cant seem to find a dealer list on their site.
http://www.cresline.com/index.html

[Wes Billups]

First I'd like to say thank you for everyone's input. I've got my layout all drawn out on paper and figure I'll need roughly 60' of pipe, 7-wye's, and 16-45° elbows. Here's how these quantities breakdown.

McMaster Carr
Pipe = $168.96
Wyes = $98.07
Elbows = 164.32
Total = $431.35 +shipping

United States Plastic Corp (Lima, OH)
Pipe = $144.60
Wyes = $154.21
Elbows = $170.56
Total = $469.37 +tax

Oneida
Pipe = $192.96
Wyes = $273.07
Elbows = $173.69
Total = $639.72 +shipping

I still have to call a couple of local places that I've confirmed have the thin wall PVC. I'm actually surprised the Oneida isn't that much higher than PVC. I do think they really gouge you on shipping so I just threw them in for comparison.

One thing that has surprised me is the variation in the fitting cost. Pipe seems to be consistent from $2.40/ft to $3.00/ft but the wyes are ranging from $14 to $30, for what I believe is an identical product. I may end up getting my fittings from McMaster-Carr and pipe locally. It looks like Lee Valley has the best prices on 6" flex tubing.

I'll post an update tomorrow if I get any drastically different prices with the two additional companies I need to call.

Thanks,

[Rob Wright]

As a person that designs and specifies sewage piping and systems daily, please be sure to know what you are getting or want. I have listed them from thinest to thickest:

S&D ASTM D 2729 Commonly called sewer and drain
ASTM D3034 SDR 35 sewer piping - non pressure/gravity flow
ASTM 3034 SDR 26
Schedule 40 Drain waste vent - Sold at The BORG
Schedule 80

3034 is most likely the green pipe that you found in SDR 35. SDR is the Size to dimension ratio. SDR 26 is about as thick of Schd 40 DWV pipe.

S&D fittings will work with SDR 35 and vice versa. Ask a local heavy underground construction contractor who he uses. A plumber that installs septic systems uses S&D 2729

I did some work in Lancaster Ohio when I was with a different firm.
try the following:

National Waterworks
HD Supply
3015 East 17th Ave
Columbus, OH 43219
Manager: Mike Foderaro
Phone: (614) 475-4376
Fax: (614) 475-4612
HDsupply.com

They supply many contractors throughout the midewest.

- Rob

[Mike Heidrick]

So will any of these thicknesses work for a cyclone setup?

[Jim O'Dell]

Mike, I think it depends. I would think that all of them will work. The heavier the pipe, the smaller ID so less room inside the pipe, but that is a very minor difference. The thicker the pipe, the heavier and therefore harder it will be to work with, and probably more expensive also. It might make a difference how the pipe hooks up to the DC/cyclone you are using. The S&D 2729 (3034/SDR35) OD is what the Clear Vue is set up for. The others would probably require some modification to fit. That might be very different for a different brand.
Rob, that is some good information. Do you have the wall thicknesses of the different pipes? I know the S&D2729 is 1/10" thick, but I don't know about the others. That might be interesting information for the masses if you know it off the top of your head. Jim.

[Bernhard Lampert]

You may be able to save some money by constructing your own wye. Look at Bill Pentz' website. There is a link to an excel macro that prints the cutting diagram (tape printout on both pipes to be connected and cut). The program is pretty slick, accomodates any angle and any pipe size, even joining different pipe sizes. Only limitation is the size of the prnter, may have to tape together the printouts. I have made a 'test' wye in preparation to use 6" SD for my dust collection. ...and it worked very well.

Cheers
Bernhard

[Rob Wright]

Mike, I think it depends. I would think that all of them will work. The heavier the pipe, the smaller ID so less room inside the pipe, but that is a very minor difference. The thicker the pipe, the heavier and therefore harder it will be to work with, and probably more expensive also. It might make a difference how the pipe hooks up to the DC/cyclone you are using. The S&D 2729 (3034/SDR35) OD is what the Clear Vue is set up for. The others would probably require some modification to fit. That might be very different for a different brand.
Rob, that is some good information. Do you have the wall thicknesses of the different pipes? I know the S&D2729 is 1/10" thick, but I don't know about the others. That might be interesting information for the masses if you know it off the top of your head. Jim.
Jim,
Pipe thicknesses with OD as follows:

65855

Hope that is clear as mud. Basically S&D (ASTM D2729)and SDR (astm D3034 pipes) can use the same fittings - that is why the are often marked 2729/3034.

Schedule pipe either 40 or 80 have the same OD as well and can use only SCH fittings with them.

If available - thinner pipe is always less than thicker pipe. The resins used in PVC are linked to petroleum costs. We have seen material cost for sewer pipe in our area increase from $1.50 per foot to $3.00 per foot over the last year for 8-inch pipe.

When it is being installed at $40/foot makes a difference, but not as much as labor and excavation but it adds up.

_ Rob

[Matt Meiser]

Wes, one other place to check for flex is Ken Craft in Toledo. They also have metal fittings and duct work. http://www.kencraftcompany.com/Dustindex.htm They are probably within reasonable driving distance of you--and there are several Carter Lumber's in Toledo too. The shipping savings might be worth the drive even at $3.50/gallon, but I'm not sure.

[Mike Heidrick]

Is Carter lumber cheap for PVC? They have a store down by my dad.

[Wes Billups]

Mike, I found a Carter Lumber about 45 minutes from me that wants $12.99 for 10'x6" pipe which is half of what the next cheapest vendor sells it for. Their wye's are $20.99 which is 50% more than McMaster-Carr. Unfortunately the Carter Lumber that is 5 minutes from me doesn't carry it and wasn't interested in ordering it for me. I think I'll buy all my fittings from them and just do all my shoping at once.

I've attached a rough diagram showing my planned layout. I am only showing the 2 dimensions as the piping will be attached to the ceiling and then have drops to each piece of equipment. I'm also going to get some 6" to 4" reducers for the benchtop tools.

Wes

[Jeff Kerr]

Wes,

Try Ferguson supply in Hilliard. They are located on the service road where Rahal/letterman racing is facing I-270. I am not sure they have it, but they are a plumbing supply co.

4363 Lyman Drive
Hilliard, OH 43026-1242
phone: (614) 876-8555 fax: (614) 876-0156

[Jim O'Dell]

Wes, it might be a little more pipe, but if possible, I'd run a main trunk down the center of the shop, with one wye branching off to the side to service 2 drops, and wyed off again for each drop. It will make the long runs a lot shorter. The farthest one will be 30' from the cyclone instead of 50', (plus the down pipe for each measurement). And it won't impact the close pipes much, if any, at all. Just a thought. Especially if the far runs are big dust producers. I'm not where I can do a quick drawing to illustrate, but if I'm clear as mud :D , let me know and I'll draw up something tonight. Jim.

[Wes Billups]

Jim, I'm limited to staying along the edges as I have some 8' light fixtures that prevent me from running a main trunk down the center. Plus, this is in a basement with 90" ceilings and I'm 6'-5" so I would like to retain as much head room as possible. I'm even debating on removing the branch that runs across the middle and just servicing the jointer via the perimeter line. I figure I'll make that decision after I buy my pipe, I also like the idea of having a drop in the center of the shop which is where my assembly table is located.

Wes

[Wes Billups]

Well, I've found the source for my piping. Discount Drainage Supplies (Columbus, OH) has pipe for $1.20/ft and fittings in the ballpark of McMaster-Carr's prices. The salesman I spoke with was even a woodworker and knew exactly what I was talking about.

I plan on picking some of the pieces up this weekend and will post my results.

Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions. I'm on the fence as to whether I should buy or build my blast gates. I hate spending $200+ on gates when I've made 4" in the past and was very happy with them.

Wes

[Eric Wong]

For 6" flex hose I order from Wynn Environmental. Here's a link:

http://www.wynnenv.com/flexible_hose.htm

I use the 25mil clear PVC stuff.

[Bartee Lamar]

Check out these guys.

I have no experience, I just picked this up on another forum ( or maybe here )

http://www.blastgateco.com/Aluminum.html

[Jay Keller]

I looked a long time and what PVC S&D 6" I could find was very very expensive. The 6" metal pipe at HD or Lowes was less expensive. However the 4" S&D was very very inexpensive and easy to find and thats what I used to plumb all my DC and couldnt be happier.

[Jay Keller]

For 6" flex hose I order from Wynn Environmental. Here's a link:

http://www.wynnenv.com/flexible_hose.htm

I use the 25mil clear PVC stuff.
A few feet of that will cost more then the DC.

[Jim O'Dell]

A few feet of that will cost more then the DC.

Are you talking about the clear PVC hard pipe? Yeah, that stuff's like 140.00 per 10 foot length!! But it would be cool!! :cool: :cool: Jim

[Jim Becker]

Wes, I thought that shipping was free for ductwork over $x from Oneida...

Build your gate no matter what kind of duct you use or where you get it. Shop-build gates tend to be "unrestrictive" to air flow, unlike any of the commercial versions I've seen or used.

[Bob Hallowell]

is there anything wrong with using the 30ga snaplock metal from lowes?

Bob

[Matt Meiser]

is there anything wrong with using the 30ga snaplock metal from lowes?

Bob

Bob, I just read a post on another forum about someone who had some of that collapse on him. It was meant to be under positive, not negative pressure.

[Jay Keller]

Are you talking about the clear PVC hard pipe? Yeah, that stuff's like 140.00 per 10 foot length!! But it would be cool!! :cool: :cool: Jim

even the flex with smooth walls is extremely expensive. check out wynnenvironmental.com for the best prices on it. But the cost will quickly and overwhelm the cost of the DC.

[Tom Maple]

Lee Valley has 6" metal blast gates for $13.95 if you get 4 or more.

[Rob Wright]

Lee Valley has 6" metal blast gates for $13.95 if you get 4 or more.


The Lee Valley gates are unique in how they are self cleaning. Take a look of the pictures and compare with standard metal blast gates from Penn State. I have both the Lee Valley and Penn State and prefer the Lee Valley.

- Rob

[jaydee potts]

After reading this thread I went seaching for the s&d 2729 pipe in my area. What I found at Ferguson's was 6" x 20' pvc schedule 40 with a foam core for $38.00. Do any of you know if the foam core pipe will work just as well? Thanks jd

[Matt Meiser]

Yes, it will work just as well. However Sch. 40 pipe is heavier and the fittings cost considerably more.