Starting a basement workshop

[daniel lane]

Well, it looks like LOML has finally freed me from projects enough that I can start on the workshop! So I'm going to ask for a little advice and see what you guys think.

We moved into this house a little over a year ago, and the unfinished basement space has become a combination temporary workshop and storage for all things unwanted. This is a perfect excuse to clean it out and start from scratch.

First, the space itself: It's roughly 11'x25' with 8' ceilings. The east wall is against earth and the north wall is against earth/concrete (garage slab), but the ground slopes downward to the west so the western wall is entirely above ground (walkout basement). Currently the unfinished space includes the water heater and HVAC system, but I plan to wall that area off and have not included it in the measurements above. I've included two photos, a sketchup file, and a JPG of the sketchup file to help clarify the layout. The space to the right of the red wall is utility (the red wall represents the partition wall I will build). Note that in the photos you will see a lot of junk and boxes and stuff - sorry 'bout that, I decided to post here before cleaning up. Oh, by the way, as far as electrical goes, if you look at the west-facing photo, you will see that I had a 60A sub-panel dropped in for the workshop when we had the main 200A panel replaced. There are currently no breakers in it, so I can set it up however I wish. :D

Alright, second is the request: How shall I go about "building" the workshop? I've seen enough photos and have a book or two that may help, so I'm not so much asking for layout help as I am construction advice. We do not have a particularly damp basement, and doing the whole "paint, insulate, frame, drywall" thing seems like overkill to me, but maybe it's a good idea for the workshop. I plan on insulating for noise, as the space above is kitchen/dining area.

Maybe it would be easier if I listed my questions.
Is there a good reason to insulate the concrete walls? We're in a temperate enough area that it's never been unpleasantly hot or cold in the basement.
Do I need to worry about dust getting into the utility space? I was thinking that I'd drywall (or wood panel) the shop side, and staple heavy plastic to the other side of the partition wall.
I've read several posts about sound insulation, and plan on insulating the ceiling and around the ductwork. If I'm going to wall off the utility space, should I plan on a standard 2x4 wall, or make it a 6" wall with staggered studs and extra insulation?
Sub-question: Should I consider tearing out the shelves against the stairs and building an insulated wall there, too? The other side of the stairs is finished, but rarely used.
Dust control is a major issue for me, since I'm in the house, but I'm worried about noise. I don't really have the money to spend on a giant 4-cyclone beast with twin turbocharged, water-cooled, 30hp motors, so I don't think noise will be too excessive, but I'm still worried. For space reasons, I'm thinking about building a small DC closet that I could heavily insulate into the utility space, but because of the proximity of the HVAC, I'd completely seal it from the utility space and vent it back into the workshop. Anyone see a problem with this?
What am I not considering? :confused:I would greatly appreciate anyone's advice here - I'm on a limited budget, but really want to do this right the first time.


Thanks in advance,

daniel

[Jim Grill]

Daniel,

I'd start by assembling that brand new band saw on the floor! :D

It sounds like you have some (fun) work ahead of you. It's going to be a great space.

[nick brigg]

looks like we're in this together!i've got a garage thats 10X20, now THATS going to be fun turning into a mini woodshop!! so if anyone has tips for me as well...http://sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Jim Knishka]

I wouldn't overthink the noise thing unless bedrooms are directly above. Both my current shop and my previous one were under the living areas, not the sleeping areas. If you think about the time you are actually running a router (for me the noisiest tool - my tbl saw, planer, and jointer don't even come close) or other very loud tool, if you're not going to wake a sleeping child or spouse you're fine. If you're going to do a long run on a noisy machine you just have to plan accordingly. I would think more about the dust. Both my current Oneida cyclone and my previous Delta 2 stage weren't raise the roof loud - were never an issue. A low end shop vac is a different story. So, I would spend the cash on dust control as opposed to noise. As for bare concrete, it does magnify noise for you in the room and can be a humidity issue. Make sure you keep a coat of wax on your cast iron surfaces. Finally, on your electrics. I ran an eight opening box off my main w/ 60 amp breaker to handle my 220 circuits (which are double bay breakers). My 110's run off the main.

[David Giles]

My work area is a giant 12x26 garage extension, so I understand space limitations. Here's some suggestions:

1. Move everything out of the workshop that isn't woodworking. External sheds and garage shelves are your friend.

2. Paint the floor with high grade epoxy. It keeps moisture from wicking into the wood. If you don't do it now, you'll never be able to move everything out again.

3. Install four sets of four 4ft T8 fluorescent lights. Buy the expensive "near daylight" bulbs with a 90+ CRI.

4. As you arrange tools, leave about 12" space in each corner. The space is useful for storing jigs, boards, clamps and stuff.

5. The table saw has to go along the long axis. The choice is whether to put the workbench behind the saw where it is most accessible or make it double as an outfeed table.

6. Consider deleting the big shelves in your drawing. They seem to make a tunnel that limits your working room.

7. Put the jointer right next to the outside door and open the door to joint a long board. Or put it next to the table saw.

8. Install a planer in a fliptop roll around cabinet box. Use the flat box lid as an infeed table and a general work area.

9. Put up an awning or extension outside the back door.

10. Use a roll around dust collector with a 1micron canister. This keeps the pipe runs short and the air flow high. On good days, you can open the doors and put it outside.

11. Where are you going to store wood? Can you put it in the garage and use a circular saw to break it down before moving it to the basement?

12. Noise - I'd at least insulate and sheetrock the ceiling. And set the power tools on neoprene pads or vibration dampeners. The reason to sheetrock or panel the walls is for ease of hanging stuff.

13. Locate all outlets 4'-6" off the floor.

I realize that these ideas are counter to what you are currently thinking and may not work for your situation. Good luck and keep us posted.

[Art Mulder]

... the ground slopes downward to the west so the western wall is entirely above ground (walkout basement). .... by the way, as far as electrical goes, if you look at the west-facing photo, you will see that I had a 60A sub-panel dropped in for the workshop


Daniel,

I also have a basement shop, of fairly similar size. I wish I had an exposed wall like you do, as I'd put in big windows, and maybe even a door for bringing in/out stock, tools, and projects. You state that the West wall (where the elec panel is) is exposed, but I only see one window that is fully covered!?!?! :confused:

My walls are only insulated halfway down (old, weird, code). I actually prefer it that way -- and I live in a much colder climate than you. I've lived in 3 houses over my life time and all three of them have at one time or another had some water in them. My current house's basement I would consider "bone dry", but even then, I have had minor trickles of water in one corner when a big store comes from the east (almost never). I'd rather be able to see this, and deal with it, than have it hidden behind walls. To me, basements are good for HVAC, for storage, for playrooms, and for shops. I have no interest in finished/living space in a basement.

Regarding insulation. Insulating the ceiling is your call. Mine isn't, and it isn't a huge issue. (kitchen/mudroom and lightly used family room above. Bedrooms are up on the 2nd floor) However as to insulating the walls that you plan to build... why bother? You specifically state that the rest of the basement has HVAC in it, and "The other side of the stairs is finished, but rarely used." If it is rarely used, I wouldn't bother.

Regarding the shelves by the stairs. Daniel, it's a shop, we always fill them and wish for more space.;) Looking at your sketchup file I would suggest ripping down those shelves and moving that doorway so the wall is flush with the stairs. According to your sketchup file that will give you another 18"x12' of space in your shop!! That is nothing to sneeze at. Furthermore, can you then also claim the space under the stairs? great spot for storage - lumber, jigs, or maybe an air compressor would fit there.

Regarding Dust in the HVAC space... If you put a ceiling in your shop, then that should contain things. I don't have a ceiling, but I filled in the joist cavities with pieces of thin hardboard fitted into place with all the corners taped. Along with my single-bag DC that keeps things contained to the shop. No complaints here.

Other suggestions? Move that HVAC wall as far over as you can manage to maximize shop space. Random family storage is still necessary as well, so some shelving in the HVAC room to get boxes of Christmas decorations (and the like) out of your shop would be usefull. If you have young kids, then consider a simple lock on the door to keep them safely out. I have a simple hook up at the top of the door to keep it latched. That is enough to keep anyone 5 and under out, which is sufficient.

Another interesting safety suggestion I have heard is to wire some of your shop circuits (ie: the TS and other really dangerous tools) so that they have switches near the door. So when you exit the shop you can just flick off all those switches, and kill the power to those tools. Or in your case you hould just have a cutoff at the panel.

There you go, let us know how it turns out.
...art

[Joe Chritz]

The subpanel that runs all the circuits except the lights is a good idea. A lockout of some kind if you have kids that could get into it.

Only other advice I would add the the substantially good advice already given is the build it so changes are easy. I spent a lot of time in the design phase and have already made changes and am making a few others soon.

Needs change and sometimes you get a new tool that just has to have a home.

Enjoy the process it is fun.

Joe

[Wilbur Pan]

I've been working on setting up an 11' x 20' basement workshop since the fall. Although these don't directly address all of your questions, this is what I learned:

1. Regardless of how dry your basement is, paint the walls with Drylok. It will cut down on the humidity a lot, even in a dry basement like mine.

2. However many outlets you plan to put in, double that number, especially for 220V outlets. Also spend twice as much time planning your infrastructure as you initially intend to.

3. You can't have too much lighting. If you are buying fluorescent fixtures, get ones that space the bulbs as far apart as possible. This makes the light much more even, and you'll have less problems with shadows. If you leave the ceiling unfinished, paint it white.

4. I have a 1.5 HP dust collector and an air cleaner. I leave the air cleaner running after I'm done working, and I can't hear it very much in my kitchen, which is directly above the workshop.

5. Mobile bases for everything.

6. Take your time, and have fun. Good luck!

[daniel lane]

You state that the West wall (where the elec panel is) is exposed, but I only see one window that is fully covered!?!?!

There are no windows in the basement, so it must be an artifact from the shrunken photo. (The west wall is below the deck, so a window wouldn't allow much light, anyway.) The wall is exposed, though, and I have often wondered what it would take to put in a window...


Regarding the shelves by the stairs. Daniel, it's a shop, we always fill them and wish for more space.;) Looking at your sketchup file I would suggest ripping down those shelves and moving that doorway so the wall is flush with the stairs. According to your sketchup file that will give you another 18"x12' of space in your shop!! That is nothing to sneeze at. Furthermore, can you then also claim the space under the stairs? great spot for storage - lumber, jigs, or maybe an air compressor would fit there.

I'm actually planning on removing the shelves on both sides and claiming that space for the shop, fixtures TBA. I'm thinking of a cantilevered CMS station on the south wall, with storage above and below. As for the east shelves, I haven't decided yet. The space below the stairs is open behind those shelves, so I could use the access for storage, but since I want to keep most of the noisy stuff to the west, I was thinking cabinets along that wall. I'm still thinking, but you guys have given me a lot of good ideas!


Other suggestions? Move that HVAC wall as far over as you can manage to maximize shop space.

That wall is fairly set because of access around the HVAC and water heater. If I keep it flush with the FRONT of the north cabinets, I have about 10-12" to the south of the HVAC unit, less if you consider the (barely visible) humidifier on the ductwork.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for all of your thoughts so far. It looks like it's going to be more work than I thought, but more fun, too. :D



daniel

[Chris Merriam]

I set up an 18x30 basement shop with no previous contracting-type experience. I took over one corner of the basement and built walls on the other two sides.

I started with the walls and got one of those explosive nail gun things to nail fasteners into the concrete. Drywalled the walls but not the ceiling. Installed a 10in drop ceiling to allow room for lighting and 6in PVC ducting. Insulated inside the joists with standard paper-backed insulation. We did notice a nice reduction in upstairs noise level.

I chose not to paint or finish the concrete walls and regret it now. I "could" go back and do all the painting in one day, but just am not motivated enough to do it. Also chose not to finish the floor and regret that as well. If you look at some people's shop photos on this site they are incredibly warm and bright. My grey concrete really soaks up the light.

Had brother-in-law install a subpanel from the garage, then I did all the wiring after that. Ran all 12 gauge. Prepare to spend a lot of money on copper! Initially started with four 4-bulb 4ft flourescent fixtures and eight recessed halogen lights. Each halogen was over a tool/work area. That created way too many shadows and I have since replaced the halogen over my bench with another 4ft floresc. My outlets are run through 3/4 PVC conduit along the wall perimeter at about 4ft high. Also ran a few along the floor to feed TS, router, and joiner on seperate circuits. I basically don't walk over that area (couldn't anyways, tools/ducting are in the way) so to get from front of shop to back I can only go along one side.

I have an Oneida cyclone in the corner, ducting running through ceiling diagonally across shop. I have one massive drop in the center to feed TS, router, jointer, and planer. That 6in PVC with 3 wye's takes up a LOT of space. It was pretty tough to give each machine the clearance it needed. I wouldn't commit to any placements until you know what you're doing with your ducting. It's so hard to get the ducting precisely where you need it, then you are left with trade offs - "Hmm, leave the duct and machine here and lose 2ft of outfeed clearance, or go buy $40 of additional fittings to make it work?"

Finally, I only have one window and a door. Not a great setup for cross ventilation. Wish I had one more window. I was originally going to put in a giant bathroom-type exhaust fan but got nervous about drilling through my exterior brick.

[Art Mulder]

There are no windows in the basement, so it must be an artifact from the shrunken photo. (The west wall is below the deck, so a window wouldn't allow much light, anyway.) The wall is exposed, though, and I have often wondered what it would take to put in a window...

Really? I thought that this:
65799
was a window that had been blocked off. Sure looks like a window frame to me.

As for light... It all depends on how wide your deck is, I think, and how large the window is. If the deck is sticking out 8' from the house, I think you'll still get plenty of light. If it is 25' out from the house... well I'm not so sure. If the basement is fully exposed, that means there is 8' or so of vertical space under the deck. How light is it if you stand under it against the house? That is what will shine in.

I can't tell if the wall is block, concrete, or stud. If it is a wood framed wall, then adding a window is no big deal. If it is block or concrete it gets messier. Some folks would just rent a big gasoline-powered concrete saw and got to it, but I'd hire it out.:rolleyes:

ETA: I see your joists are perpendicular to the wall, so you'd need a nice beefy header there above any window.

[Hubert Carle]

Something no one has commented on is finishing. You will need to setup a SEPARATE location to finish. Get some good fumes building up and the hot water heater will REALLY warm things up when the fumes ignite. :eek::eek::eek::eek:

[Hank Knight]

Daniel,

My basement shop is nearly the identical size of yours. Mine is 12 X 23. I've been it for 15 years and I've rearranged it at least 6 times. I think I've finally gotten it into a confuiguration I'm happy with. I have some thoughts about your questions.

1.) "Is there a good reason to insulate the concrete walls? We're in a temperate enough area that it's never been unpleasantly hot or cold in the basement."

Insulation, studs and wallboard will cost you some valuable floor space. Nevertheless, the are probably two good reasons for insulating the walls. My walls are poured concrete. They shed fine grit constantly. I wish I'd painted them before I moved into the shop. Insualtion will take care of the problem. Also, my shop has two HVAC ducts. It stays very pleasant in the summer, but it can get chilly in the dead of winter, even with forced air heat. I use auxillary heat when I'm in the shop in cold months. I don't think I'd have this problem if I had insulated the walls.

2.) Do I need to worry about dust getting into the utility space? I was thinking that I'd drywall (or wood panel) the shop side, and staple heavy plastic to the other side of the partition wall.

My utility space is two steps up from the shop and down a 12 foot narrow "hall" for lack of a better term. I don't have trouble with dust in there. Your's may be a different story. I think your solution would take care of most, if not all of the dust migration problem. You might also consider investing in an air cleaner to get rid of the fine dust that is the real problem.

3.) I've read several posts about sound insulation, and plan on insulating the ceiling and around the ductwork. If I'm going to wall off the utility space, should I plan on a standard 2x4 wall, or make it a 6" wall with staggered studs and extra insulation?
Sub-question: Should I consider tearing out the shelves against the stairs and building an insulated wall there, too? The other side of the stairs is finished, but rarely used.

My shop is directly below the kitchen/breakfast room/den. I do not have insulated ceilings and my family has never complained about the noise. I try not to run the planer or a router while thay are watching TV, but otherwise, I don't pay much attention to the noise. I've asked my wife several times if the noise bothers her and she says,"No."

I have HVAC ductwork running actross the ceiling of my shop, so enclosing the ceiling would be problem for me. I also use the overhead floor joists for storage - primarily clamp storage, but I hang things from the joists too.

As for the shelf area, I think it would be a good idea to wall off the stairwell from the shop. My stairwell is in the utility area I mentioned above and is removed from the workshop. My guess is that the noise and dust problems would be much greater if the stairwell were in or adjacent to the shop. It would be a direct conduit from the shop to the living area. For these reasons I think I would close it off. I think a 2X4 stud wall would be adequate. There are several types of sound insulation you can put in a 2X4 stud wall that should help. I think a 6" wall would be a big overkill.

4.) Dust control is a major issue for me, since I'm in the house, but I'm worried about noise. I don't really have the money to spend on a giant 4-cyclone beast with twin turbocharged, water-cooled, 30hp motors, so I don't think noise will be too excessive, but I'm still worried. For space reasons, I'm thinking about building a small DC closet that I could heavily insulate into the utility space, but because of the proximity of the HVAC, I'd completely seal it from the utility space and vent it back into the workshop. Anyone see a problem with this?

I don't have a dust collector. I use a shop vac (several of them) but it is a poor solution. I plan to add a cyclone in the near future - I've finally convinced myself that giving up the floor space to accommodate the cyclone is worth it. I wish I had your option to put it in a separate area and duct/vent it into the shop. If your dust collector is up to the task, I think your solution will work very well; it will save you floor space in the shop and get the noise out of the shop.

5.) What am I not considering?

Electrical - whoever said to double your planned outlets, especially the 220s, was dead right. I just added a sub panel to my shop and 5 new 220 outlets. You can never have enough.

Floor - If I did it over again, I'd put in a hardwood floor. The concrete is a killer for legs, back and feet. After a full day on my feet in the shop I can hardly walk the next morning. Plus, concrete is not friendly to dropped tools. I have rubber mats, but those are only a marginal improvement. If you don't put in some kind of flooring, at least paint your concrete floor with a good floor epoxy. Do it now rather than later. It makes keeping the place clean much easier.

Wood Storage - Again, you can never have enough. Plan it in advance. Stacking lumber, shorts and offcuts on the floor and against the wall is unsatisfactory. You always need whatever is underneath. If you can co-opt some of the wall space in the utility part of your basement for lumber shelving, great. It gets it out of the shop and saves working space.

Sharpening Station - you need a dedicated sharpening station - especially if you use, or think you will get interested in, hand tools. If your sharpening gear is readily available with water/oil and the other necessaries at hand, you will be much more inclined to sharpen or touch up an edge than you will if you have to drag out all the stuff and put it away when you're finished. Plus a dedicated sharpening station keeps the mess contained and away from your work.

Finally - don't nail anything down for a while. I've been in my shop 15 years, I've rearranged it a half dozen times and it's taken me 12 years to figure out what layout works and what doesn't - yeah, I know, I'm a little slow, but I would advise you to live in you shop a while before you decide finally how you want it arranged. What looks good on paper may not be so good in practice. Even if it is, you will probably figure out ways to make it better that will require moving stuff.

Good luck. Building a shop is fun.

Hank

[daniel lane]

Really? I thought that this <pic> was a window that had been blocked off. Sure looks like a window frame to me.

Ah, I see. Heh. I don't see that because I look at it every day. It isn't a window, it's a shelf suspended with vertical stringers and a couple of pieces of plywood below the shelf. Together, I can see how they look like a window frame!

The vertical stringers are nailed with a single nail into the frame above (rather than attached to the concrete wall) and the shelf is the thin brown line almost in the center of your circle. The wide brown line is a cross brace that was nailed between the stringers to prevent them from swinging, again, since they are not attached to the concrete. Beneath that is half a cheap ping-pong table top (the green wood that sticks out to the left) that was left behind by the previous owner, and in front of THAT is a piece of hardboard that I bought to use on top of a workbench I haven't built yet.

Can you tell there's a bunch of junk in the basement? :o

As for the possibility of a window, I don't think I'm going to look into it. The deck sticks out about 15 feet, and beyond that are several tall, dense trees that provide a lot of shade. It'll be cheaper to make a "window" (with quotes) where I put a fluorescent bulb behind translucent material to make it look like a window. Or just live with overhead lighting, which is what I'll most likely do.

By the way, all the existing shelves, the ancient desk with 10lb of paint on it (on which the mini lathe is sitting), the ping-pong stuff, the plastic dart board that is in one of the photos, all the spare paint, spare hardwood flooring, etc. is from the previous owner. I really should have insisted he empty the basement before we took posession. :(


daniel

[Dale Sandford]

Is there a good reason to insulate the concrete walls? We're in a temperate enough area that it's never been unpleasantly hot or cold in the basement.


I wouldn't worry about insulating the walls. I would paint the walls white if they aren't already painted. It will make the shop brighter, help seal against moisture, and make dust cleanup easier. I would paint the floor for the same reasons.



Do I need to worry about dust getting into the utility space? I was thinking that I'd drywall (or wood panel) the shop side, and staple heavy plastic to the other side of the partition wall.


I'd staple plastic up on the shop side of the wall and put the drywall or paneling right on top of the plastic. This way the plastic is less likely to get torn or ripped. You can caulk or tape around opennings (electrical, etc.) if needed.



I've read several posts about sound insulation, and plan on insulating the ceiling and around the ductwork. If I'm going to wall off the utility space, should I plan on a standard 2x4 wall, or make it a 6" wall with staggered studs and extra insulation?


For sound insulation, staggered studs doesn't gain that much. Using double layers of drywall, or resilient chanel for hanging will help more.



Dust control is a major issue for me...


Venting the air back to the shop is fine. However, keep in mind any back pressure on the return air will reduce suction at the other end.

I find that much of the dust that escapes my basement shop is not airborn, but travels on shoes and clothing, so keep that in mind.



What am I not considering?


Enough outlets?
Lighting? (suggest 4' or 8' T8 flourescents)
Paint the floor (already mentioned)
Room to expand? :D :D :D

Have fun!

[Andy Pratt]

My two cents: I'm working in an area a little smaller than yours so it was a real stretch fitting in all the tools I wanted to with the appropriate amount of clearance for each machine. One thing I did that was instrumental in making it work was to start with a completely bare room, lay out the machines and DC piping where I needed them, and then build the shelving and benches around that layout. Since you'll be custom building your shelves you'll be able to fit in whatever you need in the nooks and crannies left by your machine clearances and DC piping. I'd recommend working it so you keep at least 8' clearance on each end for machines you'll run stock all the way through (TS, BS, J/P) on and 8' on one side and 4' on the other for machines where you don't (DP, Miter saw, Mortiser). Use doors as your friend in this, consider carefully when you wall off that separate area what effect it will have on this, maybe it's better to leave it as is and gain the space. If you're really cramped on space you can get by with your only quality bench also being your outfeed table.

[JayStPeter]

Here's my basement shop build thread http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=10597
I address what I did for all your questions there.

Jay

[daniel lane]

Semi-shameless bump.

Also, another 'thank you' to those of you that gave me plenty to consider. SWMBO and I are hosting a dinner Saturday night, so I have work to do Saturday afternoon in preparation, but I think I might find some time this weekend to go to the local BORG and pick up some paint for the basement, and maybe some epoxy for the floor. I can price other stuff at the time, but wait for a bit - sometimes I get a "project" coupon in the mail, and every little bit helps.

In the meantime, I'll clean out the room, take measurements, tear out old shelves (save the wood?), paint walls and floor, and then at least start on the wall to isolate the utility area.

Man, I want it to be done yesterday so I can work IN the shop rather than ON the shop, but I'm also looking forward to the work. I'll have to try to get LOML to help. :D


daniel

[Eric Shields]

Daniel,

LOML and I moved into our current home almost 2 years ago. One of the many reasons we fell in love with the place was the basement (1/2 unfinished) and it's potential for man space, um I mean a workshop. I contemplated/asked many of the things you are and decided to do it right the first time. My original photos of the space are no longer available here (????) but you can see the results of the painted results here. (http://http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=31716) I am at the finishing stages of studding out the shop with only the soffits to complete (upcoming post). Then on to lighting, electrical, and drywall/beadboarding. I was hoping to be farther along but a slight recess for a paying gig provided an infuse of shop capital. Now summer is here and I can't resist working on the outside projects. Though I know there will be plenty of rainy days to work indoors.

As with you, I am on a limited budget (i.e. as funds are available) but have resigned myself that to do it right now will save many headaches in the future. Ask a lot of questions and don't get set into decision until it is time to begin that phase. Get your paint up/down then make a final decision on the walls, lighting, electrical, etc. Take it one step at a time and enjoy the transformation. Oh, and keep us up to date. Everyone here has almost as much fun watching as you are doing, and all are more than willing to share their knowledge, expertiece, and advise.

Most importantly, have FUN!!!

Eric

[daniel lane]

My original photos of the space are no longer available here (????) but you can see the results of the painted results here. (http://http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=31716)

Eric,

There are some pre-paint photos in that thread, which I read thoroughly before starting. In fact, based on what you wrote and what I've read from others, yesterday I picked up 5 gal of Drylok and enough epoxy flooring to do the space. (I bought the Quickrete brand because it was available in an off-white, which will help brighten the room with no windows.)

I must have looked the fool at Lowe's yesterday, using my phone to take pictures of pricing for materials as I get ready to plan out the framing and insulation. :rolleyes: I was amused to see at least two grades of studs (~$1 difference in price for same length?), so many drywall options, and I finally found some T-1. I'm seriously considering the T-1 because (a) I hate drywalling, and (b) I think it will both look and wear better in the shop. It is, however, about twice the price. *sigh*


As with you, I am on a limited budget (i.e. as funds are available) but have resigned myself that to do it right now will save many headaches in the future. Ask a lot of questions and don't get set into decision until it is time to begin that phase. Get your paint up/down then make a final decision on the walls, lighting, electrical, etc. Take it one step at a time and enjoy the transformation. Oh, and keep us up to date. Everyone here has almost as much fun watching as you are doing, and all are more than willing to share their knowledge, expertiece, and advise.

I have decided that while I will probably regret it in a little bit, I'm going to spend a lot of the money that I'd set aside for a tablesaw on getting the workshop completed right. I means I will have to wait a while longer before having all the tools, but since I won't have a place to use them, it saves me having to store it and drool on it. ;)

Of course, I'm going to try to minimize how much I cannibalize the tool budget for the shop budget, but I want it to be a space I'll be proud to work in, rather than a space I'll always think of as cobbled together. I just hope work doesn't force either of us to consider a move for many years!


daniel

[glenn bradley]

"2. Paint the floor with high grade epoxy. It keeps moisture from wicking into the wood. If you don't do it now, you'll never be able to move everything out again."

Pay attention to this one. It's not expensive. My friend and I started on our garages at about the same time (motorcycles for him, WWing for me). He refused to put anything in the garage till he epoxied the floor. I was going to do it "later".

I have never gotten around to the two day epoxy job and now realize I never will. It makes me sad.

[Curt Harms]

I'm in a basement shop. I didn't do anything with the walls, but painting them white is a good idea. The ceiling of the basement has insulation but is open. I've thought about doing some sort of dropped ceiling but it'd have to not eat up much space below the floor joists, and it'd have to be easily removable to get access to utilities. I've heard of nailing a strip about 1"-1 1/2" wider than the joist to the bottom of the floor joists so there's a lip on either side of the floor joist. Cut panels of thin hardboard to fit on top of these "lips". Cheap & easily removable. I don't know if it'd look too crappy-it might. You could also use suspended ceiling panels in a similar way but I'd not want something that would catch dust. I think it'd take a good dust collection system to get all the dust, e.g. routers, sanders etc.

Noise hasn't been an issue but it depends on the tolerance of the other residents. Good things coming from the shop for SWMBO may help with the noise tolerance question. You might also do what you can to prevent dust from getting in the HVAC return ducts presuming you have central air and/or hot air heat. Dust may be more of an issue than noise depending on your situation.

HTH

Curt

[John Rauch]

Daniel -

Although I have no personal experience, I've heard that muriatic acid (and its fumes) will cause cast iron to rust.

Not sure if the epoxy floor paint you're planning on using requires etching, but I think there are epoxy paint products that don't require the acid.

John

[Eric Shields]

Daniel,

I forgot the pre-paint photos were included in that thread, oops!! :rolleyes:

If your dipping into your tool budget then you are ahead of me, I don't have one...lol. As I acquire enough funds to purchase materials I'm headed to the Borg to buy. I will one day be saving for the tool upgrades, but am happy making the tranformation, even if it is a slow process (I've been in the framing phase for about 8 months now). As with you, I'll be more satisfied converting the basement into a finished "project" that is functional and a source of pride.

I'm also contemplating the refrence Curt made as to an easy access, easy to install ceiling. Though knowing myself, if I go this route I will certinaly make it more contemplated and work intensive than it actually needs to be...lol. The beauty of taking your time, plenty of it to change your mind and research other ideas.

Enjoy the painting and the progress

Eric

[daniel lane]

Shameless bump after way too long. :o

Well, I finally got around to cleaning out and demo'ing the basement. I was amazed at the amount of junk I had moved from my previous home, as well as at the sheer volume of Christmas decorations and lights accumulated over the years. I think I have enough lights to put Clark Griswald to shame!

So, for the update, I've moved everything out of the workshop area, removed all of the shelving and anything else mounted to the walls, and I pulled something like 200 nails out of the joists. Seriously! I have no idea what the previous owner was hanging in the basement, but there were areas with nail densities over 25/sq.ft!

I'm attaching some update photos...compare to those in the OP and you'll see a large amount of junk is gone, and a large amount of work remains. :(
(BTW, note in the utilities photo that what had previously been assumed to be a window is, in fact, a shelf.)

Next steps:
Discard that pile of scrap wood. It's not worth keeping, and most of it's softwood so it's not worth burning, either. We're going to hire a 6-yd dumpster and take the opportunity to discard a lot of other stuff at one time.
Scrub the walls clean and fill cracks in preparation for painting.
Paint walls with Drylok.
Finish sweeping/vacuuming in preparation for acid etching the floor. I still don't know if the concrete has been sealed, but I'll be testing before I start the acid etch. If it is, I may put down a sub-floor.
Etch and epoxy paint the floor. I'm concerned about etching when there is still stuff in the basement, I just cannot empty it completely without a lot of work and a very irritated SWMBO. There's a floor drain behind the hot water heater, but I don't want to be squeegeeing acid where I have stuff piled up, so I'll have to move some of it...but I'm starting to wonder if I can get away without etching. Either that, or I'm going to glue down plastic and install pressure treated bottom plates for the partition wall, and then wet vac the water out of the space. (Clarification: I would put glue on the floor where the bottom plate would go, then lay down plastic in the glue, then glue the bottom plate to the plastic and nail/screw it into the floor, with the result of a bottom plate that can have plastic pulled over it to keep it dry when etching. This plastic would also be pulled up and nailed to the partition wall to create a plastic barrier to prevent dust getting to the utility space.)Once these steps are done, there will be much rejoicing and Phase 2 will begin. I'm still doing some planning, but for the most part, Phase 2 will be installing the walls and built-in workbench (for non-woodworking stuff), and then the actual workshop layout will be Phase 3.

Keep posted for updates. :D


daniel

[Bob DiGiacomo]

it's a good idea to leave about 6" between the concrete wall and the back of your stud wall for moisture. If you use and insulation like R-13 it will expand past the back of the studs and touch the concrete pick up moisture or worse yet, mold. I would use 2X4's for the wall but keep them forward enough that you can put R-19 between the studs and make sure that the back of the insulation does not touch the concrete. Good luck! Get the best DC you can afford with a basement shop. bob