Cyclone outside the shop, how to get pipes in the shop

[sascha gast]

ok, I just set up a 3hp Oneida super gorilla. I had to build a shed for it and now I am getting ready to install the PVC, just need to track it down. I am venting outside, I am in California, not worried about sucking hot/cold air out of the shop and when I work, the garage door is always open.

the cyclone has an 8" intake, I need to get through the wall of my shed and from the outside of my house(stucko) to the inside of my shop.

here are my questions

should I use mostly 8" or should 6" be ok?

what connectors should I use to go through the wall of my shed(watertight) and through the wall of my house(water tight)?

once I am in, I won't have a problem, I just wanna make sure the pipe creates a rainproof seal so I won't get water in the shed and house.

if you guys have any pics or sources for stuff, that would help a lot.
once i am done, I'll post pics, but maybe I have time to show some tomorrow.
also, what blast gates should I get.

I am so excited to get this thing running, it has a lot of power.

thanx guys

[Rick Levine]

I went with 26ga Snaplock galvanized conduit rather than PVC primarily to control static electricity. I live in a dry climate and didn't want to chance a fire. Besides, I like the industrial look. My Woodtek has an 8" intake so that was what I started out with then reduced to 6" and finally to 4". I'm not quite finished yet, as you can see.

The DC is located in an attached utility room built for the unit. and I cut a hole in the adjoining wall to bring the duct in. Be sure to add return air vents otherwise you'll be wasting either heated or air-conditioned (depending on the time of year) air when you run the DC. You can see the two return air vents on the wall. I sized them with the advice of the Woodtek technician.

[sascha gast]

ok, you have my attention. where did you get the pipe and fittings(other than Oneida) and how would you seal the outdoor hole in the wall.
I don't need to bring the air back, I never heat or cool and I am not worried about fumes being pulled, the garage door is always open, even in winter.
your installation looks very clean, I like it and acutally would consider it if it is easy to get.

I was thinking of bringing 8" in and reduce to 6 right before the machines and 4"if needed

oh, and did you ground the pipe with wire of sorts??

[Reg Mitchell]

although I don't have mine outside I do have a gorilla. It is a 7" and I reduced it at the sorce
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/male_man/cradle061.jpg
I ran 6 inch all the way and reduce it at the machine to what ever the machine requires.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/male_man/cradle060.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/male_man/cradle059.jpg
Try your local mechanical HVAC for the spiral pipe. I got mine for $1.35 a foot and in 10 ft. lengths. The plastic hose is a little pricy though at about $10 a ft.
If I were putting it through a hole in the wall I would tape one side of the wall and spray in the insulating foam so as it expands it would seal all cracks
Reg

[sascha gast]

foam..........now thats a good idea.
but what the heck is a HVAC store, what would I google up.
anybody know one in los angeles??

how would you cut the spiral pipe to length if needed??

[Kyle Kraft]

HVAC stands for Heating Ventilating & Air Conditioning. Look in the phone book under mechanical contractors/suppliers.

[Marty Rose]

Sascha, Yes do look in the Yellow Pages, In Burbank, and in San Fernando, multiple places that will help you.

[Jim O'Dell]

For the 8" you will almost have to go with metal. It's hard enough to find the 6" PVC. Not even sure they make it in 8".
For the outside wall, the foam is a good idea, but look at the direct vent add in fire places that vent out the wall instead of up a chimney. They have caps that slide over the pipe and against the wall. These can be caulked to seal out rain. (Does it ever rain in California?:D ) My guess is that 8" will be a normal diameter for this.

And Reg, why didn't you shove that yellow beast up further and have the inlit pipe a staight shot into the cyclone? You could have had any size barrel under it you wanted, or used a y and split to 2 barrels if need be. There would be no problem with a long run of pipe from the cyclone to the barrel, and if you used the clear flex, you could tell by looking if you were over full! Jim.

[Jamie Buxton]

That foam-insulation-in-a-can stuff cannot take sunlight exposure. It dies in a couple of years.

[Jim Becker]

I don't recommend you reduce from 8" until after the first or second branch off your main...that Gorilla is designed to support an 8" main. Oneida will do a design for you free of charge since you bought your cyclone from them...you don't need to source your duct from them, but at least that will give you a plan of action.

I also don't favor PVC, but largely because it offers few options for components and duct sizes, particularly in "odd" number dimensions. While it's easy to work with, it's more important, IMHO, to be able to provide the right size for drops and in many cases, 5" is ideal/4" too small.

[Joe Chritz]

You should be able to seal up to the siding pretty easy with any number of methods. PVC exhaust for furnaces are often just stuck through and caulked well with silicone. If you have wood siding you could make a "block" that fit snugly against the pipe.

My Gorilla comes through a wall and I made a trim board that fits snug to the pipe. Something like that caulked well when put on and outside would work well outdoors.

My area is much smaller than LA (much much smaller :D) and I had a difficult time finding heavy gauge pipe to use. I ended up purchasing from Oneida direct and the cost wasn't bad.

You will love that unit.

Joe

[Rick Levine]

Sascha,

I got most of my ducting from Woodworker Supply (www.woodworker.com (http://www.woodworker.com/)) but they ran out of it for a while and I had to get some from Penn State Ind. (www.pennstateind.com (http://www.pennstateind.com/)). Woodworkers should be back in stock by now (I liked the finish a little better on theirs) so you should be able to order from either. Being metal pipe it is grounded throught the DC.

Be sure to specify at least 26ga ducting. I'm not sure HVAC duct is normally that thick. You don't want the duct to collapse.

[John Bush]

Hi Sasha,
My DC shed is attached so water tight was not an issue but I did make "gaskets" cut out of 1/4" masonite, slid them over the pipe before hooking up, and sealing with caulk. More of trim or escutcheon but looks good and seals too. I suggest carrying your 8" as far as you can as your main line, then branch from it. I got my pipe(26ga. snaplock) and most fittings from an HVAC wholesaler. I saved a few $$$ but the fittings are all for pushing air, not pulling, so they are all "backwards". I would suggest doing a price comparison with Oneida or Penn State for DC type fittings. It is a lot less hassle than retrofitting and exchanging for the correct parts. Your new mantra will be "Time is Money". Good luck., John.


Spiral pipe is cool looking, but overkill($$$$) for this application.

[glenn bradley]

Rule of thumb is stay as large as you can for as far as you can. The downside is more expense in ducting. However, you've bought a nice cyclone, ducting will cost X, why would you want to jeopardize your performance instead of paying X plus 15 - 20%. I wouldn't.

A lot of work goes into laying things out and getting them how you want them. Don't scrimp on one of your more permanent installations. If its a matter of money (it always is for me) be patient and save your pennies; then go for it.

[Jim Becker]

Spiral pipe is cool looking, but overkill($$$$) for this application.

Many folks have reported that locally manufactured/sourced spiral pipe is only a small cost uplift from 26 guage snap lock.

[Reg Mitchell]

And Reg, why didn't you shove that yellow beast up further and have the inlit pipe a staight shot into the cyclone? You could have had any size barrel under it you wanted, or used a y and split to 2 barrels if need be. There would be no problem with a long run of pipe from the cyclone to the barrel, and if you used the clear flex, you could tell by looking if you were over full! Jim.
Hi Jim. I couldn't get it that high in that spot because the motor would hit the roof. Bit It is a nice thought to raise it more for a larger container. 2....I would get lazy and wait till they are both full.....then I would be complaining about so much saw dust....oops, "wood dust" I had to take out.
Mine works great with the reduction at the sorce. I couldn't get the 7" sprial here locally so I dropped it to 6" which works great but since yours is 8" you should be able to get it locally. & is an odd size I was told. The joints, too are about 1/3 the price from the local guys over mail order
Reg

[sascha gast]

trust me, at this point, the money is secondary:D, I have no problem running 8", but I need a place where i can just drop by and pick stuff up if I forget something or I get the wrong/not enough piping.
I just hat to order on the web and wait for the shipment to arrive just to find out I need another 2 pieces.

[Steven Wilson]

The snaplock pipe isn't that expensive to buy or ship. If you go spiral get it local. The expensive pieces are wyes, T's, elboes, and other fittings. You should spend the time to design your system so that you know how many of each you need and then order the correct amount. Having an extra piece of snaplock in the order won't break the budget. Your cyclone has an 8" inlet for a reason, don't choke your cyclone by going 6".

[John Bush]

Hi Sasha,
I have a friend in the HVAC biz and I used his referrence to buy from Gensco, a large national wholesaler. Google them to check out locations and if time permits, get their catalogue. It is huge and has pictures of most fittings to compare. IIRC most of the fittings were thinner ga. and, again, are "backwards". When I visited the warehouse to pick up my order(s) and make exchanges, the guys at the counter were very helpful inspite of my inexperience and small order(s). They had good suggestions and you will likely change your mind and need to return for more stuff. I posted earlier that I used 26 ga. snaplock, but I think it was 24 ga., just a little heavier. The stuff at the borg is usually 26 ga, I think. If you get Gensco's catalogue you could possibly compare with the official DC suppliers and if not a huge cost difference the DC designed stuff is well worth the time saved. Jim Becker mentioned that the spiral is usually rolled/fabbed locally and is not that much more, so that is a plus, but I tried some scrap pieces from my friend and they were heavier ga. and a little tough to work with. I used saddles to branch off the main and had to cut openings into the main, pop rivet the saddle flange, then caulk to seal. I would recommend buying the appropriate inline fittings as a big time saver and it would look a little cleaner too. Thay would make the spiral a more logical choice. Good luck, JCB.

[sascha gast]

thank you guys very much, many great ideas there.
today I finally assembled the monster in the shed and man this this is nice. loud, but at least it's outside the shop.:D

[Mark Hubler]

When you talk with the HVAC material suppliers, ask for "spiral duct". It come in 10' lengths, and in 1" diameter increments from 4" to 10" and 2" increments after that.

As for the design, try to maintain the same number of square inches of duct profile: example 8" duct with a 5" tap the remaining pipe main would be 6 - 7" (don't both with PI use 8"x8" - 5"x5" = 40" so either 6" duct 36" or 7" duct 49"). This rough calculation assumes that all taps are open (like your home heating system).

As for the hole through the outside wall, layout a hole roughly 1/2" to 3/4" larger than the duct (i.e. 1/4" to 3/8" caulk joint). Carefully drill multiple 1/8" holes around the perimeter until the center falls out. After the duct is installed insert some foam rod into the joint about 3/8" (foam rods is available at Home Depot in the same location that they sell weather stripping). Caulk the joint with silicon caulk (GE paintable is my favorite). If you want a "professional" looking joint, put masking tape around the perimeter of the duct, about 1/4" off the face of wall. Do the same for the plaster, but about an 1/8" from the edge. Use one of the fake plastic credit cards they are always mailing to you as a screed. Cut a small radius in the corner of the card and the joint will look perfect! Remove the tape after the caulk starts to harden.

[Andy Pratt]

If it hasn't already been mentioned/thought of: a simple way to keep out actual water flow is to make sure you angle the pipe going through the wall a few degrees so that water naturally runs outside instead of in. This won't prevent moist vapor from seeping in so you'll still have to address that, but it will keep large amounts of water from coming in if some other aspect of your system should fail and not be noticed immediately.

[Jim Bell]

Check the Clearvue website for your large dia. pvc needs. Hit the links button.